"Destroy America" -- H.S. teacher fired for assignment

hereshoping · November 24, 2006, 2:16pm

I never said you used it, which is why I referred back to the other thread.
However, I do think, based on your posts, that you agree with the stereotype that “fundy” suggests. You seem to think they’re about to take over the United States government any day and all.
I was just injecting a little levity, here, sorry.
Guess because I’m a “recovering liberal” I perceive your posts as lectures. ;)

edit: This is the first time you offered an apology, even after I asked you for one, so thanks. :)

If you READ the thread I referred you to will find the references to “fundy.”

RE: “Recovering Catholics”: “Recovering Catholics: It’s Time to Get Over It!” by Dan Wakefield

<a href=“http://www.beliefnet.com/story/61/story_6144_2html[/url]”>www.beliefnet.com/story/61/story_6144_2html</a>

lealdragon · November 24, 2006, 3:08pm

After all that I said, and that’s all you have to say? Still no apology from you for your insults?

“This is the first time you offered an apology, even after I asked you for one, so thanks.”

That’s BS and you know it. Here, look at post #229:

<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=261335&page=16&highlight=apologize[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=261335&page=16&highlight=apologize</a>

And there are others. But I’m not wasting any more time on someone who can’t even verify her facts.

Hey, it’s easy to make a mistake about who said what. I just did it. I thought it was you who said I’d repeatedly used the ‘f’ word but I see now it was SS.

I made a mistake. I apologize.

Is that so hard for you?

I got 1 post mixed up. I apologized as soon as I realized my mistake.

But I just pointed out numerous times in which you have mixed me up with others, and numerous times in which you have flung insults, and you can barely get yourself to say thanks, based on a FALSE conclusion, and you think a half-hearted ‘sorry’ is enough? It had a sarcastic ring to it; you still have not apologized for your insults, but only for your attempt at ‘levity.’

“However, I do think, based on your posts, that you agree with the stereotype that “fundy” suggests. You seem to think they’re about to take over the United States government any day and all.”

Irrelevant, since I have already answered this numerous times.

“If you READ the thread I referred you to will find the references to “fundy.””

Again, irrelevant, since I am not the one who said it.

Your link doesn’t work. See, I actually do read the stuff other people offer me. It’s called being open-minded.

hereshoping · November 24, 2006, 3:33pm

Plug in the title of the article “Recovering Catholics” on the link and it will take you to many articles concerning that. Two or three down is the Wakefield article. There are also many comments from readers on that page who find the term demeaning and offensive.

lealdragon · November 24, 2006, 5:13pm

My posts #34 and $35 weren’t even directed at you, hh. They were directed at SS. I just reread them and I even referenced SS. So I apologized for offending you when I wasn’t even talking to you! Yet you address me directly and still refuse to apologize.

“who find the term demeaning and offensive.”

How is it that others are offended by a term that I use to refer to MYSELF???

Hey, I AM recovering from my Catholic experience. It is not your place to judge me for that.

Actually, I thought I was fully recovered. Until now. Thanks for reminding me, hh.

hereshoping · November 24, 2006, 5:30pm

Hey. A quick search and I found many, many websites devoted to “recovering Catholics.” Most of them are sponsored by atheist and pagan groups. Kind of judgmental (oh, no, guess not since they’re only speaking for themselves) but… anyhoo, here’s a site you might like:

<a href=“http://www.cafepress.com/excatholicchic.com[/url]”>www.cafepress.com/excatholicchic.com</a>

You can buy a “Recovering Catholic” button, in addition to a lot of other very cool stuff. ;)

(Click on “Recovering Catholics Unite”).

lealdragon · November 24, 2006, 5:46pm

I am familiar with cafepress. They do have some cool stuff, along with some stuff I don’t agree with. But how does that have anything at all to do with me?

“And that was just one of your many insulting comments about Catholicism.”

Why is my telling the TRUTH about what happened to ME insulting? I thought Christians were supposed to believe in the TRUTH. That’s what the nuns taught me, anyway. See, I did retain some of my Catholic teaching.

The nuns taught me to tell the TRUTH, regardless of whether it is uncomfortable. But you, hh, would rather I tell a sugar-coated story about my childhood. You’d rather I say it was all peachy, and we all just LOVED being told we’d go to ‘hell’ for every little thing.

You are uncomfortable with the TRUTH, hh. That is your problem, not mine.

Ya know, I have tried repeatedly to make peace with you, hh. I find it really sad that you are reinforcing the very thing you are seemingly against.

kluge · November 24, 2006, 7:11pm

Lealdragon - you need to understand that Hereshoping engages in a recurring tactic of accusing people of calling her names - when no one has done so - and then using that using that complaint as a source of self-annointed victimhood to launch a passive-aggressive assault on anyone who disagrees with her. Just move on - there’s no dialog here, and there won’t be.

lealdragon · November 24, 2006, 7:15pm

Thanks, kluge. I will take your very good advice! I feel sheepish for falling for her tactics.

Moving on.

StickerShock · November 24, 2006, 7:19pm

lealdragon, you are right that it was not you who used the term “fundy.” I stand corrected. But you posted repeatedly on that thread with insults toward fundamentalists and Catholics. I fail to unerstand your obsession with faiths you no longer share. Time to let it go and practice your own spiritual search without bringing down those who don’t wish to follow you.

I invite you to read this Charles Krauthammer column which covers the issue of how crazy it is to fear fundamentalists and equate their beliefs with radical Islamists who vow to destroy Israel and infidels throughout the world.

<a href=“http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGJiYzJmY2U3MmNhMDNmNzZmNDZjZmNmOTI2ZDcxMWY=[/url]”>http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGJiYzJmY2U3MmNhMDNmNzZmNDZjZmNmOTI2ZDcxMWY=</a>

Referring to Borat’s creator claiming that his movie intends to root out anti-Semitism:

hereshoping · November 24, 2006, 7:23pm

kluge: Are you kidding? Leal is and ALWAYS HAS BEEN the VICTIM here. She was the victim in her youth and, after insulting the Catholic faith and Christian faith repeatedly on the board, and failing to understand that in the slightest, has now fashioned herself into the victim once again.

It’s obvious you have not read her religious rants from this and the other threads she’s posted on.

I NEVER at any time attacked her religious/spiritual beliefs: She attacked and insulted mine.

She can’t even see that saying “Recovering Catholic” is an insult to all Catholics reading this. How about “Recovering Jew” or “Recovering Muslim”–you’re okay with that I take it?

You are correct there is no dialogue here, as I said in the other thread. It is impossible. I think you know that the reason is because ONE of us is irrational.

hereshoping · November 24, 2006, 7:25pm

kluge will automatically dismiss your links, SS, because they are published in what he considers a right wing journal.

Open-minded as always (when not calling people names such as homophobe). Yes, you, kluge (though in your and lealdragon’s minds I deserve it because I oppose gay marriage).

Rational indeed that <…perhaps it could be argued that the 150,000 Iraq CIVILIANS (see the recent Lancet report) and the thousands of American soldiers have been killed as a result of the RELIGIOUS RIGHT (emphasis added) putting bush (sic) in office.> (lealdragon)

Rational, indeed. And not offensive in the least, of course.

Chivalrous of you to step in though to protect the maiden.

hereshoping · November 24, 2006, 7:59pm

Exact quote from lealdragon from the other thread: <my hubby=“” and=“” i=“” sometimes=“” joke=“” about=“” being=“” “recovering=”" catholics"=“” in=“” much=“” the=“” same=“” way=“” as=“” one=“” might=“” say=“” alcoholics.=“”></my>

Why in heavens would any right-thinking person be offended by that??

And I finally accepted the repeated heartfelt non-apology apology for the statement.

My goodness, I wonder what would happen if I recalled all the bad experiences I’ve had with AGNOSTICS on this board??? Who would rush to my defense?

lealdragon · November 24, 2006, 8:04pm

“Who would rush to my defense?”

I would.

yourworld · November 24, 2006, 8:08pm

This is getting out of hand. Why don’t we stick to the topic OP posted. This is about a teacher with a hidden (not so hidden actually) agenda to teach hatred and destruction to his students, and what should our responses be.

hereshoping · November 24, 2006, 8:10pm

Not out of hand in the least, sir; simply more of the same.

lealdragon · November 24, 2006, 8:36pm

The part about ‘recovering Catholics’ was not meant to be offensive. If I had said ‘recovering Muslim’ no doubt you would have applauded my leaving that religion.

I WAS a victim, hh. As a child, I was the victim of abuse. I am not going to gloss over something that was horrible. A large part of it WAS because of having a fanatical, rigid flavor of Catholicism crammed down my throat til I almost choked and died, almost literally.

I’m sorry that my choice of terms was offensive to you, really I am. But it WAS my reality and I stand by my statement. I am still astounded that you cannot find even a shred of compassion or kindness in yourself (or at least you haven’t displayed any in this thread.)

“perhaps it could be argued that the 150,000 Iraq CIVILIANS (see the recent Lancet report) and the thousands of American soldiers have been killed as a result of the RELIGIOUS RIGHT (emphasis added) putting bush (sic) in office.>”

This, otoh, WAS intended to be offensive. The war in Iraq IS offensive, in the same way that the Holocaust was offensive.

It is a fact that the religious right were largely responsible for putting bush in office and supporting his Iraq policy.

So yes, please do be offended at the atrocity of 150,000 civilians (in addition to our own soliders) killed as a result of bush’s invasion. People SHOULD be offended by it. Maybe then they’ll think a little bit before they blindly follow what their pastor says to do regarding politics.

conyat · November 24, 2006, 10:12pm

I don’t see what the problem is if people want to refer to themselves as “recovering Catholics”. Isn’t all the furor about the term “fundie” based on the idea that people have the right to own what they are called?

I’m still culturally Catholic; I was a practicing Catholic for over two decades, and it would never have occured to me to be offended by someone calling himself or herself a “recovering Catholic.” I think it’s really up to that person to decide what how he or she feels about his or her relationship with the church. I wouldn’t dream of telling people they can’t feel like they’re in recovery, or have no right to say so, if they do.

lealdragon · November 24, 2006, 10:26pm

Thanks, conyat.

hereshoping · November 24, 2006, 10:48pm

Why am I not surprised you would not understand the inference. You are no longer practicing the religion. There is no such thing as a “cultural Catholic” (first time I ever heard that phrase). It is not an ethnicity or a race or a culture. It is a religion. I have many relatives whom you would call “cultural Catholics” I guess, who have no more relation to the religion than the man in the moon at the present time. I don’t think they feel they are in recovery at the present time, either. They have simply moved on and they have chosen other parameters within which to lead their lives–secularism, nondenominational worship, humanism, etc. “Recovery” alludes to an illness, an addiction, a disease. Hard to understand, for some, I know. Interesting I know of no other religion to which the term “recovering” is attached.

Blaming the “religious right” for the deaths of 150,000 civilians in Iraq is actually even more offensive, but I’m sure no one will understand that inference, either. Stating that “they blindly follow what their pastor says to do regarding politics” is also offensive. Hard to figure out though, I know.

P.S. I will admit, however, I am in recovery from LIFE, as is every other human on the planet. As Bob Dylan says: “we all wear our own thorny crown.”

lealdragon · November 24, 2006, 11:12pm

OK, how about this:

I am not a Catholic. I am recovering from abuse stemming from the horrors of a fanatical flavor of Catholicism, when I was a child.

It’s a lot wordier, but I will concede that it is more accurate. (Actually, I do think of fanaticism, wherever it is found, akin to a disease. But that’s just my opinion. And I made it clear that NOT all Catholics are fanatics. Hence, my correction.)

As for Iraq, it’s not just the religious right. ANYONE who supported the current regime based solely on a pastor’s (or anyone else’s) recommendation, without doing their due diligence to adequately research their policies and decide for themselves, and CONTINUES to turn a blind eye to the reality of what this regime is doing, may eventually share in the responsibility of the consequences of an administration whose thirst for power has led to the atrocity that is Iraq today. Unless they start asking questions and start getting involved in some way to right this wrong, the continued bloodshed may just be something that must be accounted for.

There. Is that better?

"Destroy America" -- H.S. teacher fired for assignment

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