@SyrAlum, I know. That’s why I didn’t respond to Deb22. I responded to a different comment which said " I’d be upset** if I split meals and everything with the b/f,** or paid more, then to find out he had money."
Paying more than the BF with money, yes, I’d be resentful. But not if we were splitting everything equally.
Even in equitable distribution states, whether the bank account is in his, her, or both their names typically isn’t relevant to whether an account is considered marital or separate property, with the largest exceptions being inheritances and premarital property, which hasn’t been commingled.
D’s xBF did some crazy things now that we look back at things. D paid not just her share but most of their eating out expenses and he would have a few drinks and an expensive entree. She bought the food and she cooked when they ate in. But she also bought him airplane tickets for him to visit us (she thought he was a struggling grad student) and he talked her into buying a car he fixed up which she paid for and the insurance. But she never drove the car, it was his.
He also cried poor to his roommate who gave up asking him for his portion of the utilities.
I could go on and on. I don’t want people to try and debate what my D paid for in her past relationship. That’s for us to figure out. When D found out that he had all this money, he told her that once they married all of his money would be hers, not to worry.
But he had cold feet about buying a ring and she realized that he wasn’t ready for marriage. She decided that she wasn’t willing to stick around for that day which may never come. So she got out. We are so relieved.
@deb922 If I was your daughter, to me it would be less about the $ and more about trust and honesty. That would be a hard one to come back from. Glad your daughter saw the light.
This becomes an issue when decisions are made about what is to be bought, and the person with more money prefers something that the person with less money cannot afford.
If both people can afford to go to a movie, then it makes sense for each to pay for a ticket. But if the BF wants to go with his GF to a live theater performance but she cannot afford a ticket, either he pays or they don’t go. It’s not reasonable for the BF to pressure the GF to spend more than she can afford to please him and maintain fairness.
This could extend to more important issues than a night’s entertainment. For example, if the couple moves in together, the BF might want an apartment in a nicer neighborhood than the GF can afford. That can lead to some difficult decision-making.
My point was that separate accounts may make it easier to provide evidence for arguments to reduce the share of the ex-spouse in case of divorce in non-community property states.
Granted, makes no difference in community property states unless one can prove the assets/concerned weren’t comingled.
A reason why some well-off families work with their children to place the lion’s share of their assets/inheritances in some trust funds well before any discussion of marriage.
It is an issue that needs to be discussed before marriage, ideally Sometimes the higher debt is also tied to higher earning potential, especially with debt incurred for grad school such as law or medicine. Sometimes the student debt can lead to impaired credit of one of the partners, which could impact the couple after marriage, if the person has fallen behind in payments, or sometimes when they haven’t because of some shady practices of student debt servicers who fail to properly credit payments and then report them to credit agencies as being in arrears.
H is a lot more spendthrift than I am, so I hide a great deal of my money from him. I have always been a W-2 employee while H is self-employed. Most years, I out earn him but there have been a few when he made more, maybe 3 or 4 out of 25 years of marriage. We have no prenup but I received an inheritance that I am keeping entirely separate, at least until he puts my name on the deed to his mom’s house. I did use some of the inheritance on joint things, like home improvements and college tuition, but I am keeping a certain portion segregated.
Many trust funds are set up in such a way as to protect them from both divorce and creditors. This guy probably would never have parted with that money. Your D was smart to break off from someone who was a clear manipulator.
^^if he were young he may not have had access to his trust fund money at the time this was occurring. Trusts can be set up with whatever age or trigger is desired, not automatically 18 or 21. Regardless it does not sound like he was forthcoming and it was probably a relationship that was not meant to be in the long run.
D1 earns a great deal of money. Her partner in life ( over 7 years) earns a respectable amount, six figures, but not as much as D1. She bought the Manhatten apartment they live in. They did a major ($100,00) renovation before they moved in. He paid for replacement windows and other stuff.
But then she told me that they agreed he would not be paying towards monthly mortgage but be paying towards his student debt to reduce or eliminate it.
I understand where they are coming from as long as they stay together. Get rid of the higher debt. But what if they break up?
I would think that after 7 years, your as good as married. Marriages can end, too, right? I think when two people are in a committed relationship and there is income disparity, thinks shouldn’t be split 50/50.
@morrismm Is the house in both their names or just hers? Not that it necessarily changes my opinion.
Even if they break up @morrismm, they were hopefully happy or satisfied during the time they were together, one would hope. Life is full of compromises and trade offs. Often things work out and sometimes one ends up on the better end while other times they end up on the worse end. Keeping meticulous score just doesn’t work very well for many folks.
If she bought the place and is paying the mortgage, it could be argued she owns it and at most in any breakup he may get some share of anything he helped pay to renovate prior to them moving in, offset against FMV of rent he would have paid while living there.
More problematic is when one spouse puts the other thru professional school and then they divorce when school is done and income for the professional greatly increases. This can be tough in a divorce court. Especially in no-fault states, sometimes the “sacrificing ex” ends up with little to nothing for the sacrifices.
@morrismm Do you mind me asking what your daughter’s job is and where she went to school? I’m trying to figure out what to do for a career myself lol.
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Another scenario: couple gets married, a few years later, one then decides to go to law school. No financial help from either side of the family; each person has equivalent undergrad Staffords. Student borrows Stafford and Plus) for tuition, less partial scholarship. Spouse pays for all living expenses instead of borrowing more $. Would y’all be outraged?
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My cousin’s insurance-company-lawyer hubby suddenly decided to quit his well-paying job to go back to school to become a HS teacher. Cousin was very upset because his decision to quit his job was done w/o her concurrence AND…worse…he had previously refused to let her work part-time when their kids were little.
Anyway…after the year or two preparing for his credential (thankfully) all the teaching jobs in the area dried up, and he was forced to abandon that idea.
I’m not sure what you call this, but he began contracting with insurance companies to fill-in for them as needed in court. Turns out he immediately began earning more than he ever did. Has since expanded and is hired by a variety of law firms to fill-in for them, and now makes a very high income by really only working about half of a day 3-5 days a week. I recently stayed with them for a week, and he’d leave around 8:30 am to be at court by 9, and be back by noon…or 1pm latest. Awesome! Lol
Cousin has now retired early…so in the end it’s all worked out…but…it didn’t look good for a year or two.
BTW…I kept my inheritances separate, because, well, H just doesn’t understand some things…like shoes.
I have my own accounts. My H gets stressed out by seeing every little Starbucks bill, little expenses for the kids, all of the piddling stuff that adds up. I spend what I want and don’t answer for it, he’s happy and stress free. He does my books at the end of the year and he’ll sometimes ask, do you want to know what we spent on kids’ sports last year? Clothes? Starbucks? Unless it’s a problem, nope. I’m a very frugal girl, having a lot of kids costs money. We work hard anddwn afford it, no need to split every hair imo.
What if they break up might be one reason to keep things as they are. If they breakup, having his name as co-owner on the property title would complicate the breakup considerably. If he wasn’t on the property title, why would he want to pay the mortgage if he keeps none of the equity after a breakup? If she decides to charge him rent, she should be paying taxes on the rental income.
Let’s face it. Marriage, per se, doesn’t mean much any more. Love, yes. Commitment, yes, but legal marriage, no. If one of my children were looking to marry someone who had a lot of debt, I would advise against it, if entering into this marital legal contract meant they would be on the hook for the debt.
If my kids were wanting to start a family, I’d really want them to have kids within a traditional marriage, for the protection of their offspring.
I haven’t really thought much about debt that my kids might be absorbing by getting into a relationship with someone who is indebted.
My sons best bud got strong armed into putting his gf’ s name on his mortgage to his house. She then started demanding he put her name as beneficiary on 401k, life insurance etc. They were not even engaged. Just long term dating.
Well the relationship is breaking up. It will be an expensive lesson.
Sis in law bought a house with her bf as joint tenents. She now wants out but he refuses. Lawyer told her its easier to get out if they were married. She is stuck. It’s pretty ugly.
Tell your kids to never agree to sign any legal agreement wiith another person unless married. Yikes.