I’ve always been the higher earner, and we’ve always had joint accounts except for the retirement accounts. But after FIL died and left a little money to DH, DH has made a few somewhat large purchases. We talked about them, and they are things I wouldn’t have objected to buying before (but wouldn’t have spent one calorie of energy researching or buying), but I get the definite feeling that DH bought them now because he feels like he has some money that is somewhat “his” money. Even though he says it’s our money, it’s money he doesn’t feel guilty about spending. For some, there is a lot of emotion around money and spending.
@Marian I think it is all part of the give and take of the relationship. As a male, I understand the need to allow the wife to spend what she needs to make her happy. It is just a part of the whole marriage contract. If she wishes to send a few thousand on a new bag, then so be it. If she wanted to join a gym or visit the spa, fine. Just because I make the money in the relationship does not give me the right to deny her equal access to the funds. We are married. Who am I to deny her?
As the saying goes…“happy wife, happy life”.
AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!! If my husband said that once in my presence, it might end a 30 year marriage!
So, people are different, and we appreciate or are offended by different things.
That saying always makes me hear “If I allow the little woman a few little indulgences, she will work like a slave to serve me and make me happy.” That may not be what you mean, but that’s what I hear.
I prefer: I want her to be happy because I love her and her happiness is important to me.
Not: I want her to be happy because then she will make my life happy.
Wouldn’t it make sense for them to have three types of accounts, joint/his/hers*? The main joint account would be used for shared household expenses, while the smaller his and hers accounts would be preallocated allowances for each spouse’s personal expenses (manicures, tools, etc.) that each could purchase without having to ask permission to buy what the other may think is an unaffordable luxury. I.e. each gives the other permission to spend $X per month no questions asked, rather than having to ask permission for each spending item (or argue about after the fact).
*Or joint/hers/hers or joint/his/his for L/G spouses.
I would’ve been livid if my H chose and bought the furniture without me, and I would be even more upset if I thought that I couldn’t talk to him about it because, in his mind, he had the right to make such choices because he made more money, even if he made all of the household income. That reeks of financial control to me, and I would view it as a negative statement of my value. (Please don’t view this as an attack on your marriage. It’s just how I would react.)
I say this as a SAHM who homeschools our kids and contributes close to nothing monetarily to our household. My H and I made this choice together; or, if it was more of my idea than his, he supported me in it. He also pays the bills and stays on top of the finances. We make buying decisions together. Have there been times when he has made little comments or inferences about “his” money? Yes-- but not many at all, and the few times it’s happened, he’s apologized and divulged the true reason for the comment or mood. My teenage son has occasionally made a comment, jokingly trying to get a rise out of me. When this happens, I remind H (or we both remind S) that we made this decision together, that I actually made more money than my H did when I left my outside-the-home job (although he far now out-earns what I would’ve in my profession–and the fact that I made more is irrelevant, anyway), and that this is “our” money, not “his”/“hers” no matter who earns it. The latter was our deal when we married. I understand that not everyone has the same deal when they marry, but it was ours, and it’d be wrong for one party not to honor it or to not respect each other financially if both parties are acting in relatively healthy ways.
Financial control can be a form of abuse. (I’m not at all saying that was the case in the furniture example, so please don’t read it as that. I’m just stating that there is such a thing as financial abuse.)
We have joint accounts, and then I have my accounts, lol. The main reason this works for us is my husband gets stressed out seeing all the little nickel and dime charges that come with having a bunch of kids, a working mom, etc… By having my own accounts I can buy a kid lunch if I want to, get myself Starbucks, buy yet another pair of ballet shoes, get gifts for weekend birthday parties… and he just doesn’t have to look at it. Our joint account is literally bills, bills, bills, groceries… my husband has very little discretionary spending. I buy his clothes because he doesn’t like to spend money, I buy him nice wallets and watches… he just doesn’t have to see the money going out for those things. So maybe it would be more accurately described as discretionary spending accounts and hard expenses accounts, either way it’s worked for us for 30 years.
I really appreciate reading all these comments. It has made me think about the emotions I have around money. I’m coming from issues around money with my ex-H and after my divorce to a great job with a lot of options after this business is potentially sold and the future ahead with the man I’m dating. I agree that for everyone it is different, but I need to sort out internally the triggers, fears and associations I have around finances.
The problem with this is the word “allow.” As long as you and your wife are conceptualizing your financial relationship in terms that involve one partner “allowing” or “not allowing” the other to make a financial decision, you are no different, in my opinion, from my husband and me at the time when he felt that he had the right to buy furniture without consulting me because I was earning little money at the time. The concept is the same. He could choose to “allow” or “not allow” me input into the choice of furniture.
The only difference is that you are a nicer person.
@marian:
“But what do you do if one of you wants to spend money on something that the other thinks is foolish or inappropriate?”
Right then and there I see a problem, words like ‘foolish’ or ‘inappropriate’ are judgemental as hell, as in “you are so stupid to even think of wanting to do that”, as if my opinion somehow is magical, when it isn’t.
Okay, so does that mean my wife and I have always wanted to do things that made sense to the other person? Nope. At one point my mother in law was pushing my wife to use money we had to fund some kind of investment scheme she had , and I said no, but I explained why (it should have been obvious to my wife, to be honest, given her background having an advanced degree in accounting, but this wasn’t logical, it was emotional). I explained how commodities futures worked and why the brokerage firm that had this ‘training program’ for people, wanted a 50k escrow account (like I said, this was pure emotion), and despite the emotional pull she knew I understand that sector professionally and understood how dangerous it was, plus it was money we really didn’t have.
There are times when my wife wanted to do things around the house, had looked into it, that I told her I didn’t think we could do, that it would be costly and difficult (at times, expanding the house, or wanting to put a porch on the front of the house which due to its design, wouldn’t work), we talked it out. If the other person is doing something we think will fail, cause problems, etc, even if we consider it foolish or inapppropriate,putting a moral judgement on something is going to get the other person’s back up, pure and simple, and won’t solve anything. Obviously, if it was something I couldn’t agree on (and I am not talking trivial things, talking big money could ruin the family’s finances for example), then I might have to exercise a veto, but it would be based on why I feel that way, not on some moral judgement. For us, the reality is that neither of us has ever had to do this, we listen to what the other says, and if there is no common ground, respect the other person enough to either give in or the other one.Doesn’t mean it didn’t get heated at times, or with some feelings hurt, but in the end we can work it out.
As far as the weight watcher’s thing that is another example of what I just wrote about, a decision being based on some sort of moral judgement , as in ‘foolish’. It sounds to me like your husband buys into the notion that weight issues are a moral weakness and the only way to overcome them is to ‘work them out yourself’, much the same way those who look at addiction like that. If my wife told me it was foolish, I would ask her why she thought that, and then try and reason with her (that for example, with weight loss group weight loss works better for significant percentages of people
I am not saying that people don’t have reasons for having their own accounts and they shouldn’t, I am very careful to talk about my own experience and how it works in my relationship, and that is all it is.Am I perfect? At times she will run ideas by me and tell me I am immediately dismissing them and her, sometimes she is right, sometimes I think it is old crap coming up to the surface, but in the end I generally will apologize and try to explain better why I thought an idea was bad, why I didn’t think it would work. Sometimes she has been right, and it often was because of my own issues, so it isn’t perfect…but a lot of this comes down to trust.
Funny part is, with things like shoes or clothing, I tend to be the one encouraging her, and she the one backing down (especially if it involves shoes with heels, then I get the hairy eyeball lol). Seriously, the big part is we trust the other that when we object to something being bought, that we have thought about the reason and appreciate the thoughts of why the other one wants to do it, but are genuinely concerned it might be throwing money away or be distruptive to the family, and I think that is why or why not people may need seperate accounts, because they may not trust the other to respect their wishes when it comes to spending on either of their parts.
I would have a problem with this, not because of the amount, but because it means that our values are way out of sync. I see many women walking around with LV or Prada handbags where I work, and there seems to have been a huge uptick in Canada Goose jackets this last winter. Men aren’t exempt here either, as they like to spend their money on watches. I simply don’t understand the appeal of spending a huge amount on something with a brand name that performs no better than something without the brand name.
Fortunately, she feels the same way. :-bd
On the other hand, I have no problem with my wife spending $4000 a year at at Starbucks (caffeine is her only vice), or hiring a maid each week, or going out for dinner whenever life gets busy.
H and I have mostly “joint accounts.” We each get an equal amount of cash each month – $150-200 and the rest is put on joint checks or joint charge cards. If either wants or needs to buy an item costing a few hundred $$$, we tend to talk about it. When we wanted a new sofa, we talked about it and researched it for months or was it years? Generally, I operate under the principle that whomever cares the most about X and wants to do the research before buying can and should go ahead and do it. Thus has worked great for our entire family over the decades.
When we were 1st married, I out-earned H, but stopped out of the workforce once the kids arrived and have not gone back to full time (tho I worked part time for over a decade when we had lots of college expenses) or approached the salary I would have reached if I had stayed in the workforce.
Our handling of finances has not changed based on who brings in what money, including inheritances (H received a huge inheritance and promptly added it all to our joint assets). Our funds are all commingled and joint. In fact, I’m the one who pays the bills and I’m the one in charge if all our finances. H is just happy I always make sure our family has always had enough, including the funds for our kids’ Us, private HS and we have been able to save more than we have coming in every month.
The only family I personally know who has his hers and theirs accounts does it because it reduces budget arguments. I believe they are a very high income family and their home is worth 7 figures. I have a relative who knows to the penny how much his W has in her wallet. He and the W are both MDs, he is very much in control of their family. H and I have no idea how much cash we or the other carries at any given time.
I don’t see any approach as better–it’s what works for the parties involved.
Wow, @Marian - your DH should have asked your opinion on such a big purchase!. My DH would rather put a stick in his eye than go shopping!
@MomofJandL - I like the phrase “when mom is happy, everyone is happy”.We used it often in our house. Me moreso than the rest of the gang, in fact.
I always feel I’m only as happy as my least happy family member. If one of them is going thru a tough time, I’m troubled too. Fortunately for me and them, we’ve been mostly pretty happy, even with our various chronic medical issues.
Ok, I’ve got one. (This info is all from the girl’s family…so the perspective is skewed)
My friend’s daughter lives and works in NYC. (no debts, but smallish income for the area) She moved in with her IB boyfriend. He insists she pays half the rent. He makes easily 4x what she does. (Most likely way more). She literally has nothing left at the end of the month. Where does this fall on the spectrum?
She needs to find new BF. Sounds like a rotten deal to me. I wouldn’t want my loved one spending every penny contributing toward living expenses while their partner has tons of discretionary funds. Sounds like huge power imbalance that will likely only worsen.
New York is expensive to begin with. Given her smallish income, how much would she save if she lived elsewhere? If she can save money elsewhere, she should probably move out and see if the relationship continues.
Agree, @HImom - we feel our kids’ pain. For sure.
DS’s gf is, I believe, accepting a job in his area (all planned for after she finishes her grad school. She has had several offers.) Her field isn’t terribly well paying, but she knew that going into the feild. And they will be in a very expensive (high COL) area… And she will now need a car (she has been using public transportation for grad school and her internship). So not sure what the plans are for paying for the car and paying off student debt. Dont know how much she has, and while curious its not my place to ask my DS.
A friend of mine jokes that his daughter “bought herself a husband.” He is a junior high teacher who had both student and credit card debt, she is on the corporate ladder for a big software company. Her bonus checks can be more than his salary. So far, they are happily raising two little boys.
W and I are about as intertwined as two people can get. I had student loans and a car loan but more income. Trust funds and prenups were for people from better zip codes than ours. My wallet is her ATM. We are both free to spend. There are no individual accounts. She called me last week while I was visiting colleges with S2 to inform me that we are flying down to LA for some big concert.
S1 has been dating someone for two years. He has a job lined up in business consulting, she is a music major. There is likely to be real income disparity in their future if the relationship continues.
We are like you, @Magnetron. All monies co-mingled. For decades. He came into the marriage with savings, and I had grad school debt but had a furnished small home. He carries a check in his wallet for emergencies but otherwise uses cr cards and cash. We are equally likely to get cash from the other person if /when needed. I mentioned a cc thread to him the other day about inheritance $ being able to be separate from joint assets. He jokingly said “NOW you tell me!”
@2019hope :
That story sounds like the BF sees the D as a roommate with benefits, rather than as a true couple (which makes him seem like a total delta bravo to me rather than as someone who sees the D as a romantic partner, not surprising given his profession, all the benefits with none of the cost).
My now wife right out of school lived together, and we pooled our resources and paid the expenses out of that, I made more than she did, but because we already were a committed couple, we decided to share it.