Well, many young people do split expenses. Taking emotion out of it, I’d say she clearly cannot afford to live in that apartment/neighborhood. If she were sharing an apartment with a platonic friend, I’d say the same.
She needs to move out and find a more affordable option. What she does as it relates to her relationship with her boyfriend is another matter entirely.
We also are in the “our money” camp. I have always worked, but was part-time for many years and so do not earn anywhere near what my DH does. But we still need my salary to support our life. We are cautious with money, but I buy what I want. He does too, but I also buy stuff for him since getting him to a store is tough. Very occasionally (years ago mostly when things were tighter) he would get upset if the credit card bill was too high, mostly though it was stuff for the kids. For big things, we decide together, but generally I start the ball rolling with a discussion about something we need. Often, he will tell me he doesn’t care but I prefer he is involved if it is a big item.
I know some couples that split the bills - he pays the mortgage she pays the utilities and food, but seems too complicated for us.
And Marian - I would be livid if my husband bought furniture without me or objected to my going to WW or the gym. I hope he has come around with your success. I feel like joining the gym and re-joining WW (online version) has really made a huge difference for me.
DH and I got married when we were young, in love, poor, and stupid.
Now, all these years later, we are still in love, and still poor, but no longer young, and not nearly as stupid.
We paid for our own education, taking loans, and still had some of them when we got married. We were both working before we had our pups. When we got married, we commingled our checking account as it coincidentally was around the time his bank started charging fees (we got the letter when we returned from our honeymoon). Since it didn’t make sense to pay fees on multiple accounts, we added him to my bank that had no fees. We discussed that I would handle the bills and finances since he was working many more hours than I was. He knew I would never dream of hiding anything from him, and I think the biggest argument we had was I logged checks using 1 line in the register, while he had always used 2 lines.
I only worked for a short while before we moved for his much better job - and while I was searching for a new job, I became pregnant. We paid off our student loans the month before DS was born. And shortly after DD came along, due to the cost of day care, etc. we decided I would not return to work until she was old enough for school.
We did not anticipate that we’d be a single income family this long - but medical issues prevented me from doing so.
Our financial life did not look anything like I expected when we got married. We have very little savings, but we are without substantial debt other than our mortgage. Like @myloves , we treat our money as ours, because we are a partnership. We make strategic decisions and purchases together. I totally appreciate @myloves’ husband’s few comments about the spending of “his” money - any spouse can be moody at times. I recall my DH making such a comment after DD and I bought her HS prom tickets and a prom dress - she wasn’t going with any date, but just with her friends. Even though the dress was a steal at $40, the ticket was still $125 and DH wasn’t pleased - both because he was stressed about expenses for car trouble, but mostly since he felt so excluded from the whole fun of the process.
@MomofJandL I have never understood the phrase “happy wife, happy life” to be anything other than a husband wants his wife to be truly happy, because she deserves it after all the other crap she has to deal with. I don’t think a wife is happy when she is treated as a slave most of the time anyway. Marriages that work are those that are a true partnership, not dominated by either side.
I want my DH to be happy because I love him - but I know I am not always a source of total joy in his life, either. Sometimes I feel bad that I have given him a lot more worse in the “for better or worse” deal - especially when we hit those higher and higher deductibles every year - I average a couple of hospitalizations a year.
I tell him I know this is not what he signed up for, but he responds with the patience, peace and a reminder of how many blessings we have had. We have figured out what will work for us - and like @musicprnt says, it’s all about trust.
I’m pleased and aggrieved that the consensus agrees with me - and with the opinion of my friend.
The power imbalance seems to spill over into every part of their lives. She (the young lady) believes they are to be married and this is all just part of a normal process. We (the matriarchy) think that he wants a trophy (she’s very successful in her arts-related field) and he uses the income disparity to his benefit. I wonder how his family views the situation?
@MomofJandL “I prefer: I want her to be happy because I love her and her happiness is important to me.” Yes. that is what I meant to say. It is all about love. this money stuff should not be a consideration.
@marian “The problem with this is the word “allow.” As long as you and your wife are conceptualizing your financial relationship in terms that involve one partner “allowing” or “not allowing” the other to make a financial decision, you are no different”. I see your point. My choice of words was ill. The fact that I earn all the money is irrelevant. We are married and it is our money. I do not allow her to spend it. We spend it.
We have never fought about money or spending. If we are not in agreement, we discuss and reach a common understanding. It makes us happy and has worked for over 30 years and counting. Mostly, we both tend to be fairly frugal and have common priorities.
@2019hope "My friend’s daughter lives and works in NYC. (no debts, but smallish income for the area) She moved in with her IB boyfriend. He insists she pays half the rent. He makes easily 4x what she does. (Most likely way more). She literally has nothing left at the end of the month. Where does this fall on the spectrum? "
This is a great extreme example that illustrates why I do not understand how people can maintain separate accounts. It seems so much easier to just pay for needed things (rent) out of a joint account and decide how to spend jointly.
I see the whole “business” end. Two people share the space, each should pay 50%. But is that fair in the context that @2019hope put forth? Ok. so maybe you don’t think it is fair because it is out of proportion. Ok. lets say the BF made 90% of the total and the GF made 10%. He would pay 90% of the rent? Ok. Lets say they want to go on vacation. He wants to drive to Lake George. She however is pretty smart. She knows that he will absorb 90% of the cost, so she says they should take a trip around the world. You see the problem. He wants Formica, she wants quartz counters.
I don’t get it. If your married, you need to be a team and think like a team.
If it works for people great. But I don’t get it anymore than I get “open” marriages.
We are 100% co-mingled, have been from the very beginning of our marriage, when neither of us had anything. DH’s career has a much higher compensation ceiling than mine. I have done everything from work full time, to working part time while in school, to SAHM, to part time, to now working only every few weeks.
We have set our daughters up with trusts that are protected from divorce. If they choose to co-mingle their disbursements, that is their prerogative.
@MassDaD68 I totally see your point. Hopefully, this won’t end up in marriage, cuz I can’t see it working out long term. (For this specific couple)
My DH and I have separate but equal “play” money. It makes life so much easier. I get a nice bonus every World Cup. He travels with his buddies and I get something I really really want that only benefits me. (I have a penchant for antique jewelry… god help me)
*I always tell people we share the money equally, jointly, as a team. :-?
@2019hope, I doubt he has told his family the particulars of the situation. At some level, he must realize that what he is doing is unfair and unkind.
50/50 only works if (1) both people have similar resources or (2) the more affluent person is willing to adopt the standard of living that the less affluent person can afford.
@Nrdsb4, are the trusts for your daughters in place now, or are they trusts that will be created through your will? Just curious, we haven’t considered setting up trusts for the kids while we are still living.
In the early years of our marriage, we gave ourselves a personal allowance from the joint account. It was quite small, but the idea was to use it for little splurges so we didn’t feel resentful about our otherwise tight budgeting. Dh might spend $5/wk blowing off steam in an arcade and not feel guilty. Otherwise, money was pooled. He earned more than I did for the first couple of years, then my income jumped dramatically. We still opted for me to be a SAHM when the time came, but that was a huge adjustment for both of us.
My dh is another one who hates to shop. I buy nearly all of his clothes, shoes, etc. and buy everything for the house. If it’s a big purchase, I’ll narrow down the choices to my top three and ask his opinion. Sometimes he will express a preference, but usually says I should buy what I think is best.
We’re both still pretty frugal. I tend to obsess over finding the best price on most purchases. I get a bit irritated if dh buys something without comparison shopping but I don’t say anything because it isn’t a big deal (those purchases are always <$1K.). At least once a year he forgets to pack something for a business trip and buys a tie or belt at the nearest department store. Afterwards, he texts me an apology for paying retail (even though he knows I wouldn’t really be upset.)
Our future SiL earns less than half as much as D1, and we wonder how they will handle their finances. So far we’ve managed to keep our advice to ourselves. Even when asked, I’ve told her there’s no one right way to deal with money. She hates debt and wants to pay off his student loans as soon as they’re married, but hasn’t told him yet. The last I heard, she hadn’t yet told him exactly how much she has in savings. It may come as quite a shock to him.
As to the BF-GF rent scenario, when we first lived together, with a roommate, my DH paid more for rent than I did because he earned more. He also probably paid for more dinners out etc., but not entirely. For the couple mentioned above, perhaps it is solved by the boyfriend paying for everything else - dinners, movies, trips, utilities and her contribution is half the rent. Otherwise, I would be wary about being in a long-term relationship with someone that would be unwilling to either assist me financially or be willing to move to a place where I could actually afford to pay half the rent and still have a life. If this were my friend, however, i might take it with a grain of salt depending on whether the daughter is asking mom for money.
Money issues can sink a relationship. My DH and I don’t agree on everything, but we are both pretty much on the same page about money.
2019hope, go back to my post about splitting expenses. Such a red flag. When I was in this situation, I thought back to the book/movie by Amy Tann, about 4 Chinese women. The mom goes to visit her DD(Rosalind Chou?), who,lives with b/f in modern condo. The mom looks over the list of groceries,that they are to split. The mom notices some circled items, like Tampax, that DD is to,pay 100%. The mom asks about other items, that are clearly foods that she knows her DD won’t eat, and questions why the DD is paying half. Also, the furniture is clearly not the DD’s taste.
I,probably saw the movie 30 years ago, but that was a powerful scene. I suggest u find a way to watch the movie with your daughter. It is difficult for a young person to speak up about ideas/rules for a relationship, especially if she risks losing the man. In this case, she may be a people pleaser, doing far more of the cooking and cleaning than he. The less expressive she is, the more control he will take. He can choose to go out to a fancy restaurant. She can say she can’t afford it. Or, she could go, ask for a separate check, and just order an appetizer. It would s a small step to let him know that she is going broke by living with him.
@bookworm The Joy Luck Club - that exact scene played on my mind!!! Fortunately it’s not my kid, but my friends child. . Dh and I would have plenty to say if it were our own child. OTOH - I should watch that movie with kiddo!!
edit: Strawberry ice cream - the daughter was allergic? And didn’t he have a 3 legged table that “fell” over?
@MomofJandL, a good portion will come to them when one of us (DH or I) dies, even more after the death of the other parent. It was our hope that they would be well into their careers (and good work ethics and money handling habits well established) before they have access to the trust funds. These trusts were what I was referring to earlier.
However, when they were little, we set up a trust fund for them with the thought that it would pay for their educations. We put money into it, as well as the title to some real estate the trust purchased. The trust held that If there was anything left after their undergrad, the balance would begin to go to them in portions, beginning at age 25. It is irrevocable. We figured there might be a few thousand for each D to get them ensconced into an apartment or down payment on a new car, basically “launching” money. By chance, it turned out that they have had a huge windfall recently after a property owned by the trust sold at a very large profit. So each D will come into a significant (for a young person just starting out) amount of money, to be given at certain intervals. It is protected from divorce until the trust is dissolved, when they are 35. At that point, it is still considered separate property and protected as such unless they co-mingle it.
The other trusts are never dissolved, unless the principal is spent.
I don’t think you understood BunsenBurner’s post. For purposes of a Crummey letter, the amount the beneficiary can receive is limited to the amount the grantor added to the trust that year. If the trusts you’re involved with have a provision allowing the beneficiary to withdraw X% of the income produced by the trust in a year, it’s completely unrelated to the Crummey letter issue, and definitely not a legal requirement for all irrevocable trusts.
Re: splitting the apartment.
It’s one thing to split costs, but when it’s leaving one partner broke at the end of the month, you should be helping out. It seems just unkind to demand a split cost when it’s clear that she can barely make it.
IMO, that isn’t someone I’d want to date but to each his/her own. It does smack of a huge power imbalance though.
2019hope,
Thanks. I’m couldn’t think of the title. Then invite your friends over to watch the film, put on pause, and discuss. This is a serious situation