<p>Old fort, you’re on to something as usual. Guilt can be useful in learning social mores.
A story. Several years back when my S was a teen, my ex H HOUNDED him about the fact that no birthday present had been bought or wrapped, not even a card. The ex has a late summer birthday, and is a busy transition filled time. Regardless, he expects presents from the kids, as well as some sort of event, and they hear about it if they don’t produce. My ex puts much care and attention into giving gifts, for the kids or whomever else is in his life. I was a little appalled at how he was harassing the kids. Being rather WASPY and midwestern, I’d tend to slink away into my self pity corner, figuring they don’t care if no gift is forthcoming. But these days, for the most part, the kids give gifts, punctually and proudly. I have the ex to thank. </p>
<p>In talking of these issues regarding sons, I’ve realized, sometimes a little late in the game, that how they treat moms can have relevance as to how they treat a future spouse. My insistence on communicating plans, taking care of the details of life, sharing the work will hopefully help him, as well as his sisters be aware of basic consideration in all human relationships. </p>
<p>Sue, I like your use of IM to communicate. I use lists on the kitchen table, frequently, as they are more often a more benign communication tool than the maternal voice. But yes, keeping it light, keeping it fun, even if hurting, keeps the communication from foundering.</p>
<p>The above makes me think about differing approaches or emphases on gift-giving. Some people place so much importance on the “right” gift–I’m sorry to say, usually high-maintenance women for whom the birthday isn’t complete without a show of love from the jewelry store. If one of my sons ends up with such a female, well, I guess it will be his problem.</p>
<p>In some households ALL the kids exchange birthday presents, and there is a huge problem if someone forgets. We tend to be more laid-back…emails & cards are just fine. It’s the thought that counts.</p>
<p>I agree. The emphasis on “the gift” leaves me puzzled. I would rather share time and space with my S than get some tangible present. Also, I prize the personalized gifts (a super DVD of his performances; a calander he made using photos of what he has been up to the last year) he gives me, even if they aren’t always “timely.”</p>
<p>I got to watch two other families at Thanksgiving. We were all in rental properties in the Texas Hill country. Both had a college freshman son home for the first college visit to San Antonio. One freshman (my nephew) had driven up in his own car and drove back to SA a day early so he could spend time with his buddies. </p>
<p>My S is a soph. He goes to college out of state. I had told him that we were going to this get together at Thanksgiving and that he was invited if he cared to make it by flying into SA. He said he’d pass. </p>
<p>On the other hand, last summer S was working out of state and I asked him if he’d like to go to Costa Rica with me after the end of his job but before college started up again. He went and we had a ball.</p>
<p>I don’t think that a student is a jerk just because he or she does not choose to do what the parent might prefer.</p>
<p>The point of the above, is to take some time and think of someone besides yourself on a parent’s birthday. My ex was happy with homemade craft projects, a small plant, whatever. Though yes, he is very materialistic in other ways, and one reason we’re divorced. But I know women who are hurt by lack of ANY thought or consideration on their birthday, and I’d hope my kids would not be the cause of that sort of hurt. I pity whomever might be involved with a gold digger as well. But that wasn’t the point of the above post. </p>
<p>For Mother’s Day, I ask for time and choice of activities…to my kids’ rolling eyes, at least as we start out. But they suffer through church, a hike or the symphony. In the process they learn something, usually end up with enjoying each other in the process.</p>
<p>O.K. Oldfort, tell me what you think of this e-mail I was thinking of sending. I think it involves some guilt, but is it too much? Not enough? Should I not send it at all?</p>
<p>"Hi.</p>
<p>I was hoping you could help me with a dilemma I’m having. I really wanted to send a care package this week with some treats to enjoy while you study for finals. The problem is, I feel like a chump sending you anything since you haven’t acknoweldged the other packages I’ve sent. I know you’re very busy, but I actually timed it and it takes 9 seconds to type and send an e-mail that says,</p>
<p>Hi Mom. Thanks for the treats. Love, your son.</p>
<p>You could even cut and paste it!</p>
<p>It has occurred to me that maybe you don’t like getting the packages. Maybe they’re a hassle to pick up, or maybe you just don’t like getting cookies in the mail from mom. Hey, I get that, so don’t be afraid to tell me. </p>
<p>I know I’m not the boss of you, but I’d feel bad if I didn’t point out this simple fact of life: if you don’t acknowledge it when people do nice things for you, they will stop doing them.</p>
<p>You don’t have to feel bad if you don’t like getting care packages. I can think of loads of other people that would be thrilled to get them, so you’re not depriving me of the joy of giving. Just let me know."</p>
<p>I’d like to point out to my fellow parents that I deleted the part from the original where I suggest if he is so swamped academically that he can’t spare 9 seconds perhaps he should forget college and try a career in the food service industry. </p>
<p>Helenback - you are killing me. I am truly worried for your son this winter break. I think if he knows what’s coming, he shouldn’t come home (be afraid, be very afraid). I definitely like the cut and paste part.</p>
<p>No, leave him alone, don’t distract him during this critical period. Have him come home, and let him have it in person. FYI - just a touch of tears would help also.</p>
<p>Helenback-
This is why email is so dangerous. You can hit send by mistake with no time to reflect. If that had happened you would have had not time to add:
“Would you like fries with that?”</p>
<p>I know women who refuse to celebrate (or acknowlege) their birthday because they don’t want to focus on “growing old.”</p>
<p>I don’t think one person’s hurt feelings (if a spouse or child remembers the birthday of a “birthday adverse” person) or failed expectations (if a spouse or child fails to gift “appropriately”) makes another person “a jerk.”</p>
<p>I talked to my favorite aunt that has two grown sons. She’s in Houston and she said some saying like,“Stick a potato in your mouth and forget it.” That’s probably not exactly it, but it doesn’t matter because it didn’t make sense to me anyway. She said to send the care package, be happy that he’s doing well, and forget the rest of it. She’s raised two grown sons that are wonderful, caring people who sing their parents praises any time I talk to them. She says they were exactly the same way in college. One of them told me once that he comes home every chance he gets. She said this is just a transition and that he’ll come around sooner than I think, and that if he’s focused on school then I shouldn’t fuss at him right now.</p>
<p>07 dad, I wouldn’t ever, and haven’t, called anyone a jerk. Was merely expressing pleasure that my kids had turned out capable in a piece of social functioning that some in my birth family have not. Sorry if that was out of turn. </p>
<p>Some may not like birthdays acknowledged. The point is to be sensitive to those around you. In my area we tend to celebrate each other, so was working from that basis. </p>
<p>As my family tends towards the quirky, perhaps Aspergers end of the scale, I am realizing, perhaps a little too late, that more direct teaching of social skills would have been a good idea, as in some cases example alone doesn’t work.</p>
<p>Is jerk more of a bad word than I realized? As the person who started this thread, I’m kind of surprised by how strongly people seem to react to it. In our house, it’s just kind of a silly, funny thing rather than a really strong insult. As in, “Hey, don’t be a jerk and eat my last piece of pizza!” or “Don’t be a jerk by hogging the remote and making us watch ‘How it’s Made’ for the millionth time!” Doesn’t anybody remember Steve Martin and his movie, The Jerk?</p>
<p>My birthday is very big with me because it is the only special day that I could call my own. I am lucky that I still share mother’s day with my mother because I am the only sibling that lives close to my parents (my sister and SIL live far away enough they could always have the day to themselves). I am also the person that make sure everyone in my family has a nice birthday, Thanksgiving, Christmas. My kids had big birthday parties until 13, Sweet Sixteen, graduations… My parents had wedding like 50th anniversary, 60th birthday, all organized by me. So if my birthday is important to me then I do expect my kids to honor it. Yeah, I would call them jerks if they didn’t acknowledge it. </p>
<p>07Dad - I think if you knowingly hurt someone’s feelings then you are a jerk, especially if it is something you could do. I could understand it if it’s unintentional.</p>
<p>By the way great lakes, you’re a far better woman than I, because I use the word jerk almost as a term of affection, so I call people jerks all the time. Come here and give me a hug, you big jerk! Hey, you don’t have to be a jerk about it! </p>
<p>So, I can’t say I haven’t called anyone a a jerk–and I probably also can’t say I wouldn’t do it in the future.</p>
<p>Yes! Exactly, Oldfort! “If you knowingly hurt someone’s feelings, then you are a jerk.” That’s at the heart of the whole issue. Is my s knowingly ignoring me, therefore being a jerk, or is this some typical college transition issue?</p>
<p>I don’t consider it a term of endearment, especially when used with the suffix, “off”. But, hey, don’t worry about it! </p>
<p>My wife in addition to sending brownies to our good son regularly, has actually sent brownies to sons of her friends who are less good bakers than she. I would suggest sending the care package to a worthy friend along with a nice note with a copy to your son. Your proposed email is too direct for me. I prefer the subtle approach.</p>
<p>Helen, as in many things, context is all! You’re having fun, playing with the word and each other, as I assume with those movies. Affection intended! I think I used to do this with my brother. When I was young, jerk was used a lot, sometimes teasingly, sometimes disapprovingly, as in synonymous with a**hole. My impression, is that 07dad was seeing the use as name calling, which I wouldn’t do, here or in real life, without humor involved.
But I’m risk adverse by nature, just want everyone to get along.</p>
<p>I do think oldfort gets to the heart of the matter.</p>
<p>NJres–I actually considered your suggestion as he has several buddies that would be thrilled with a package. If my aunt is right and he’s in a temporary state of oblivion, I think he might actually be really hurt and embarassed by that. I feel like I owe him at least one heads-up that I’m ready to stop sending stuff if he doesn’t respond so he has a chance to correct it.</p>
<p>I am going to throw something out here that may not be well received, but that I have thought a lot about since reading this thread. Is this lack of communication with sons at college a sign of things to come? I can’t help but think of the saying, “A son is your son till he gets him a wife, a daughter’s your daughter for the rest of her life.” (Or something along those lines.) </p>
<p>Helenback, your posts are a joy to read. You have a real way with words and make even this semi-painful topic amusing. If you are not a writer, you might want to look into it.</p>
<p>I think Helenback’s favorite aunt in post #149 has the best approach to OP’s situation.</p>
<p>If I understand the context the recent posters are using, people are suggesting that if someone doesn’t do what she knows will avoid hurting the other person’s feelings and she knows what the other person wants and she has it within her power to do it, she is a jerk–right? </p>
<p>I don’t think that works in relations between parents and children, between spouses or outside of the family. My S may “want” something that I have the means to provide him, but that doesn’t mean that I am somehow deficient if I choose not to provide it. If a husband really wants something from the wife and gets his feelings hurt if he doesn’t get it and she doesn’t provide it, is she a jerk or do her wishes and/or desires count?</p>
<p>I think a college student may have a whole lot of new things on his or her plate, especially at the first exam period. If I wanted to send a care package to my S for exams, I’d do it because that’s what I wanted to do. It seems that to act any other way is to let the student dictate the parent’s choices.</p>
<p>This isn’t a hypothetical to me. I’ve sent brownies to camp and now to college because it made me happy to let my S know I was thinking of him. I didn’t stop doing what made me happy just because I didn’t get a level of communication from him that I might have liked.</p>
<p>On the “a son is only a son until he marries” issure, if mom and the wife both expect the male to meet her emotional desires it often results in the male chosing since its hard enough for many males to handle this for even one female. This is especially tough when the mom and wife use this as their contest to see who the male “loves best.”</p>
<p>Helenback, which would help you to have a joyful attitude when your ds comes home? If sending a box of goodies that goes unnoticed and elicits no thanks would make you feel resentful or hurt, then don’t do it. It’s not worth it to anyone. Those packages clearly aren’t as important to your son as they are to you. </p>
<p>I tried to send things, especially things my kids had mentioned, without expecting a phone call or email or text from a delighted offspring, but it didn’t work. Sometimes, weeks afterwards, I’d ask about the package in an offhand sort of way, and hear that it was great. Then dh & I visited and found that the boxes were left, all or mostly unpacked, in a pile with other stuff. It was hard not to react when thinking of the wasted effort, time and money, but I kept quiet (dh made a few smartalec remarks.) So I stopped sending packages, and the kids didn’t notice. I also reduced emails to once a week or less, texted about anything urgent (such as a dr. appt.) and stopped calling. Sometimes, 3 or 4 weeks passed without contact from them, and then it began to pick up. They called us or messaged dh in a game. It still took until ds was 21 before our relationship improved greatly. </p>
<p>We keep our expectations low and we’re better at enjoying our time with the kids rather than feeling resentful about what they don’t do. They’re learning some lessons about being on the other side, too. When a girlfriend drove a typically 10 hr. trip to visit ds and didn’t call to let him know her ETA, he was worried and annoyed, especially when she took over 12 hrs. due to bad weather. When friends married and failed to send a thank you note to the kids for their wedding gift, they were hurt and wondered whether to call & ask if the gift had arrived (they knew it had.) Weren’t their friends taught, as they were, to write thank you notes promptly?! It does get better.</p>
It does get better.</p>