<p>I titled the thread as I did after talking to many friends and relatives who, like me, wrongly assumed that shy people like small, intimate settings, where they would be encouraged to share. Many shy adults I know told me (laughing), no – they like to get lost in the crowd. (I’m sure that wouldn’t apply to ALL shy people.) That was something I wasn’t figuring on when we looked at schools, and that was the mistake I was warning other parents about.</p>
<p>SLC does have a specific reputation, which is precisely what drew us to that school. Only by my D attending did we see the campus “personality” didn’t suit my daughter’s. Though she may be on the same page politically, philosophically and even fashion-wise as the majority of SLC students, she felt intimidated and overwhelmed by other students’ strong sense of who they are, not just in the classroom but socially. She’s not there yet, but may be in the future.</p>
<p>Yes, she does write on a daily basis, and has won national awards by the same organization that recognized greats like Truman Capote and Syliva Plath when they were teens (her teachers and I pushed her to submit – she probably wouldn’t have). But I don’t know how far that will get her without a college degree in today’s world. Her therapist (PhD from Ivy League) seems to think the character and climate of NYU is very different than SLC (I think that’s obvious), so we’ll give that a shot as a visiting student.</p>
<p>Sally305 – you mention how hard it is to stand out at a larger, less personal school. The point is, my daughter does not wish to stand out. In first grade, everyone fought to sit next to her at lunch, and I had to go to the guidance counselor to intervene. She wants to be left alone right now – and people like that do graduate and find jobs – I’ve worked with plenty of them, and currently teach college students like that (though they are not common), who have far less going for them intellectually and economically than does my daughter. I have plenty of hope for her.</p>
<p>PS: it was NOT just the size at SLC, but the EXPOSURE, which I commented on in my first post. Weekly meetings with professors. An expectation of speaking in class. Students who seemed to be very comfortable in their own skins – a lot of theater, dance, music performers (not the case everywhere!)</p>
<p>In high school, my D took a German course at night at our local community college. There were only 7 students in the class. My daughter wsn’t uncomfortable there, because it was not a discussion based course, she never had to meet privately with the professor, and the students were not at all the super confident intellectuals she later met at SLC.Again, it was not the size alone but the exposure. So why don’t I send her to the local community college?Because I think in the long run she will do better with a more challenging environment, though not one that expects all students to take center stage.</p>
<p>Is your daughter accustomed to spending time in NYC, getting around, the hustle and bustle? If not, it might be worth spending some time there before signing up for courses at NYU. Manhattan is much more congested than it was even 10 years ago. Cleaner, safer and more upscale to be sure, but it can be overwhelming. And NYU is spread out all over lower Manhattan, not just a few blocks south and east of Washington Square. They provide buses between NYU buildings but it’s worth considering how much jostling your daughter wants to deal with.</p>
<p>I am concerned about the stress of navigating Manhattan, but we go in about once a month, she went there weekly from SLC with her room mate, and she has a much older sister who has an apartment in midtown, should she need to stay there – so she is somewhat familiar with it.</p>
<p>Rutgers is too far from here to commute to, and she doesn’t want to live in a dorm.</p>
<p>I know. The point I was trying to make is that there are students at ALL colleges, large and small (and especially at selective ones where people tend to be highly accomplished to begin with) who are trying to stand out the way some of the SLC kids are–not that your daughter wants to. I understand that.</p>
<p>If she is as talented as you say she is, I would encourage you to research the paths other successful writers have taken to get to where they are now (maybe try to talk to someone in the publishing field?). I am pretty sure there are many paths and that they don’t all require a college degree–just as with fine art, dance, or other creative pursuits.</p>
<p>As for NYC being too hard to navigate, I would think it might actually be liberating to be so anonymous in big crowds. I used to be very shy and loved visiting New York and London for that very reason. And as long as she doesn’t expect much coddling, she might do fine at NYU.</p>
<p>Not only does she not expect much coddling, she rejects it when it is offered, as at SLC. She couldn’t have been more fawned over by administrators, professors, on-campus therapists, etc. That made her feel exposed. </p>
<p>I am not sure if students at a lot of schools want to stand out the way SLC students do. It is a highly unusual, unconventional group – that’s why we picked it. The way students present themselves makes them somewhat identifiable as SLC students (I believe in a good way), and the school is often mentioned in popular culture (TV, films, books) because of its very distinct image: gay friendly, “hipster”, artistic, progressive. Students at other schools may want to stand out, but no one from her highly competitive, upper middle class, metro Jersey high school has ever gone there: too liberal, artsy, outside the box. Her high school classmates wanted to stand out in other ways – more the Ivy, business, grade-earning way. Not non-traditional.</p>
<p>Ok, I really didn’t want to jump in again as the SLC parent whose non-artsy but shy kid had the completely opposite experience at the same college but I am bothered by your reliance on stereotypes when describing the student body. You’ve said some nice things about the College but seem unaware of your hostility- the administration ‘fawned over’ your daughter?! I am also bothered by the title of the thread. I think the fundamental mistake might have been trying to steer your daughter’s college choice. She really needs to be in the driving seat and if she can’t take charge, then I agree with other posters, college might not be her best option now. The other question I can’t get out of my head is - how does she cope in writing and poetry seminars, where it is essential to speak one’s heart and mind?</p>
<p>She’s a talented writer, but would never take a writing class for the reasons you state: speaking one’s heart and mind. She wants to study linguitics/languages. You can write without taking a single class. She was editor of her HS literary magainze and worked up to submitting her own peices, but it was hard. Majoring in writing was never a consideration for her, despite her awards since 6th grade.</p>
<p>I feel the opposite of hostility toward Sarah Lawrence. If I did feel hostile, I wouldn’t be so heartsick that she chose to leave! To me, it’s the perfect school in many ways.When I said “fawned over” maybe I should’ve said “catered to”…although I don’t find anything negative about being fawned over – I’d love it!</p>
<p>My one and only point has been: do you have a shy, creative, unconventional kid? Well, it might be natural to assume they would fit into a small school with lots of personal attention. However, that doesn’t always work, and it’s not just my kid who has experienced that. I know others who would like more anonymity. So consider large and impersonal, too. That’s all.</p>
<p>The SLC stereotype that exists isn’t of my making. It’s well known, since the days of JD Salinger mentioning the “typical” Sarah Lawrence girl. Stereotypes don’t evolve out of a vacuum. There is truth to the SLC stereotype: that’s why we all thought the school would suit her. She just isn’t as socially evolved as the kids she came into contact with in her dorm and in her classes – at least she felt that way. I wish it had worked, and no one blames SLC for the fact that it didn’t. My daughter needs more confidence, and that wasn’t happening for her there, even if it happens for everyone else. (By the way, we met a half dozen kids who left before the first semester ended, so maybe others thought they had found a home, but discovered they had misjudged, as well. My daughter’s reasons had to do with her, not just the type of intense, intimate school. A suitemate who came to SLC from the west coast left after 3 days because she wanted a football/sorority school. In a case like that, understanding the SLC “stereotype” would’ve surely come in handy.)</p>
<p>It was a bad fit for OP’s daughter. There’s no SLC bashing going on here. Of course not everyone at a given school will fit the stereotype - and some stereotypes are now pretty much completely useless – but that doesn’t mean reputations are meaningless. That’s why we still have the concept of fit. Are you honestly telling me that you think someone who struggled to find her place at SLC should just give up and decide college isn’t for her because there will be no difference between students there and students anywhere else?</p>
<p>With respect, understanding the SLC ‘stereotype’ would not have been that useful to the suitemate who wanted a football/sorority school. Checking out the catalogue/website and realizing there are no sororities or football at SLC would have helped! There is a high attrition rate at the school. My son’s take on that is that it is because SLC is a very tough academic school. Which apparently comes as a surprise to some students. (Obviously this doesn’t apply in your daughter’s case.)</p>
<p>Anyone who understood SLC’s legendary reputation would not even have to look at a website to know there wouldn’t be football or sororities there. What’s wrong with having a reputation? Hampshire has one, which is uncoventional yet different than SLC’s. SUNY Purchase has one. Eugene Lang at the New School has one. We looked at all of them – each unconventional but not really like one another. Most small, interesting places have a “flavor”.A large place like Penn State or Rutgers or NYU might have pockets of uncoventional people – but might not be dominated by that feeling, so a particular social reputation might not be as defined.</p>
<p>My mistake, which I wouldn’t want others to repeat, was assuming small, non-traditional, lots of personal attention,etc. would suit shy kids with psychological issues in general. Though there are many, many kids in therapy at SLC (I rejoiced at the number of therapeutic groups available), there was a general “uninhibitedness” among those my daughter encountered that intimidated her, when she hasn’t felt that way in other settings before college. And small group discussions and meeting frequently with professors caused anxiety – plain and simlpe, not all schools offer those features. That’s what sets SLC apart, and is a major selling point.</p>
<p>This description fits numerous colleges on the east coast and elsewhere: Hampshire (as you’ve said), Bennington, Warren Wilson, Macalester, Beloit, Earlham, Knox, Hendrix, Colorado College, Lewis & Clark…</p>
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<p>I think this is a big part of the problem (in addition to the very personal issues of social anxiety and bipolar disorder your daughter is already struggling with). I can see why you thought SLC would be a good fit for her, but 18 years growing up in a more mainstream environment is hard to just turn off once a student hits the college campus. For my kids–who have grown up in a very liberal, fairly anti-materialistic college town–the opposite is likely to be true. In fact my son was completely turned off by the stuffiness and status-consciousness of most of the east coast schools and only applied to a couple (Hampshire being one:)).</p>
<p>True. In our community, we stand out as being one of very few liberals and non-materialists. At SLC, my daughter no longer held that distinction. She wasn’t used to relating to more progressive kids, though I thought she’s enjoy it.</p>
<p>So glad to read this and totally agree. My introvert and I looked at many small schools, and finally realized that she would really be under the microscope at any of them because of all the individual attention. Instead she is in an honors program and a living learning community at a big state school. She’s created a small community that supports her, but has all the advantages of size (many classes, research, great professors).</p>
<p>My reports cards too were filled with “he’s shy and reserved” comments for like, what, 13 years? idk. But personally I would love the SLC environment because through experience I’ve realized that smaller classes give you more “encouragement” to speak out. Like there are fewer kids trying to hog the limelight of discussion, you know? And even if you blurt out rubbish the embarrassment is proportionally lower haha. But that’s just me – I am shy in front of big groups, but thrive in small ones. </p>
<p>I hope your daughter will consider other LACs, though. Handholding, the crude essence of the SLC experience, isn’t as prevalent in Hamilton, for instance (you get it only if you ask for it). Also, classes are small, but you aren’t grilled continuously.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the supportive posts! SLC is intense in the area of personal attention – some shy people are inspired by it, some recoil from it – but my gut tells me maybe not all small schools are. We have a lot of exploring to do, but regardless, confidence building is at the top of our list right now.</p>
<p>Interesting topic… the new book by Malcolm Gladwell, David and Goliath, goes into why small classes aren’t always better than large classes, why top students at average colleges are more successful in life than mid-range graduates of ivies, and other counter-intuitive information. Worth reading for those with an interest in such things.</p>
<p>I would consider myself an introvert and I was in the spotlight in my (very basic) high school along with a group of about 20 other students in my grade (800 kids total in our school). I was in the spotlight ONLY because a very small percentage of our graduating class was college bound (about 15%). If you put in a half hour or so a night for homework you would get nearly all A’s. I attended large state flagship and was never happier than when I attended my first college class and it was a lecture with 400 students. Noone cared if I showed up and noone cared what grades I earned. I loved my experience and anonymity there and found my niche socially. I did not talk to any professors outside of class (not to imply this isn’t helpful, but rather that it’s not 100% essential). I ended up with all A’s and 1 B in college and went on to later get my MBA at a top 10 school. I do not share this to brag but to say that I think there are many various paths that can lead to desired outcomes. Your daughter and you sound like an amazing team navigating through all of this. Kudos.</p>
<p>It may depend on how big the major is. If it is a popular major (e.g. biology, psychology, economics) at a very large school, even the upper division courses may be large enough to “fly under the radar”.</p>