Embarrassed to admit this

lovemykids2012 · November 23, 2012, 11:27am

“You say you aren’t looking for sympathy, but you reject any advice to reconsider your own point of view.”

Garland, did you read my post #93 in response to Onward’s advice??? Onward’s advice was to relax until I meet him and to take a deep breath and keep an open mind.

I am going to sign off now. I know what I need to do. Thanks to those who gave constructive advice and understood that I was trying to GET OVER feeling that way about the bf. Several people mentioned trusting/listening to my daughter because she sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders. Good idea.

Did postings with words like snobby, shameful, bizarre, judgmental, alienate, etc. help me figure out how to get over this feeling? Not so much.

mythmom · November 23, 2012, 1:23pm

I have been rereading this thread. I still find it disturbing to rate people based on their external accomplishments, and I would never do this or judge others, especially my daughter’s boyfriends, in this way. (Maybe my son’s girlfriends. – Just kidding. LOL.)

I apologize to the OP if I’m incorrect, but one thing that has occurred to me is that the OP is either an immigrant or from an immigrant group in which seeing through this lens is the norm. If this is the case, I can really understand some of the language of her posts and this thread.

We are fortunate in the US that a woman can earn her own place in the world and not be judged on the social status bestowed by her husband. We may also think we eschew concepts of social status, though I don’t think that’s as true as we might light to think.

I think it’s wonderful to want what’s best for you daughter. Perhaps many of us differ on the idea of what’s best.

My D left a relationship with someone from an elite university, with an elite family with money and a very promising career ahead of him because they were not good for each other emotionally. They are still best friends, and I adore the ex, but I accept my D’s assessment that they could not really satisfy each other’s emotional needs.

She is now with a young man from a more pedestrian background who is employed but an exalted career trajectory is much less assured. She says he fulfills her at little emotional cost to himself and vise versa. This is a much healthier relationship. And if he helps her achieve more, this is more fulfilling too, in my opinion, than being someone’s handmaiden.

As to garland’s point about being high-powered – it works if the folks are matched, but it works if they’re not too. A less high-powered husband can be the go-to person for mundane tasks in raising a family leaving his wife to her pursuits.

My marriage was more like that. I did raise the kids, but my H did/does the laundry, shopping and cleaning. I’m not kidding! Haha.

I am still working at my career, and our kids are back home (for grad schools they could afford – state U is five minutes away) and the roles are back to where they were.

On paper, I guess he didn’t look as good my first husband who is the perfect height, as gorgeous as model (his nick-name around town was “the coat-model”) and was a National Merit Scholarship winner back in the day and scored 800 on every standardized test. Eventually he didn’t think I was enough of a trophy for complicated reasons. He ended up doing less with his life than expected, but I don’t think he would have been as supportive of me as my current H is.

I do understand the worries here, but perhaps these are more old-fashioned perspectives than our current society requires.

I understand parents worrying. After all, if the relationship is serious, and people have children together, these new folks will mingle their DNA with ours. But that’s the name of the game – genetic recombination, baby! It sounds like the kids of the boyfriend might be great athletes. I’m joking there, but only a little.

There are so many ways to be a great person.

My uncle, who tries cases before the Supreme Court, complained that his son-in-law was too short and didn’t have enough hair. Here’s a guy who is an MD/MPH devoted to bringing health care to poor kids around the world being judged because he balded early.

I think the reach/match/safety way of looking at human beings is not humane or okay, but another poster who I respect said it had her smiling, so people of intelligence and good will do see things differently.

emeraldkity4 · November 23, 2012, 1:55pm

My uncle, who tries cases before the Supreme Court, complained that his son-in-law was too short and didn’t have enough hair. Here’s a guy who is an MD/MPH devoted to bringing health care to poor kids around the world being judged because he balded early.

Im curious how successful uncle is in other areas of his life. Its my observation that people who diminish the accomplishments of others, are very insecure themselves, even if they seem like they have it all together.

hyperJulie · November 23, 2012, 1:56pm

I’d really hate to see OP’s appraisal of the man who will be my husband in June. There is so much more to a person than a resume.

My fiance is not a driven person. He did okay in school in not very employable majors (dual major in sociology and history) and because of that he now works at a factory making okay money. On the other hand, I was a top student and I’m currently in a PhD program. Looking at that, you’d probably think we were really poorly matched, but he’s a wonderful, amazing person who has supported me for many years. We have many interests in common and he has always been there for me. Now that I am in a demanding graduate program, he does many things for me like picking me up in the evening, making me dinner, and just generally being sweet and supportive. Not only that, but he’ll drop anything to help family (mine and his) and looks forward to being a stay-at-home dad to our kids someday. In some ways, the fact that he is a little less driven gives him some leeway to be more supportive of me in my endeavors, and will allow me to both have a career and a family because he is content to do just what he can to be supportive.

I hope that you do give your daughter’s boyfriend a chance. He may not be everything you’ve ever hoped and dreamed for but if he is supportive and loving to your daughter there is not much grounds for complaint.

limabeans · November 23, 2012, 2:21pm

Oh hey! This is an anonymous forum. You may not want to admit your worries about things like this so openly to someone, but in this forum, that should be okay. OP admits she shouldn’t feel the way she does, but she asked for advice to think differently. I think that’s a start.

BTW OP, I once dated a guy who was far, far below my socio-economics. I dated through most of college and yet he had never gone to college. He was ~24 years old, while I was ~19. Obviously we broke up, motivated by me, not my mom or family members. I also dated guys who were much, much higher on that socio-economic scale. Some cute, some eh. Some were a bit infatuated, others plain jerks. In the end, I married a guy who is incredibly, incredibly smart and has a wonderful sense of humor. I feel like I won the lottery.

Your DD will need to make those decisions on her own. Meanwhile, be happy she has found someone.

Youdon_tsay · November 23, 2012, 4:03pm

I agree that people are being too hard on OP. “She” came here to vent and acknowledged that she feels bad about thinking as she does. No biggie. Consensus advice is keep her opinions to herself and to keep an open mind. It’s all good.

prayinglady · November 23, 2012, 4:36pm

Agree^^^ Why do people just gang up and attack?? Without even bothering to give constructive advice? Maybe it’s a mothers intuition?? Hey, we’re not going to like everybody, but maybe he makes her happy? Maybe it’s a phase and won’t last? At any rate, I know me…if I didn’t just say how I felt…(in a nice way), I wouldn’t feel content. Just nicely say, I know your an adult and I respect your choices, but I have to get this off my chest…that’s my 2 cents anyway…good luck!

musicprnt · November 23, 2012, 4:42pm

I hope the OP is still reading this, if only to make her understand she isn’t a bad mom, she cares. The difference between a good parent and a bad one is a bad one claims to be a good parent, thinks they are great, while a good one frets and worries about their kids until the day they die:)

I understood where you were coming from, you are concerned because you feel your D’s BF may not be a match, and a lot of factors go into that…and guess what, it often isn’t rational, any more then who we fall for is rational or thought out. You look at what your D says about him, about his past, and you naturally wonder about him, is he right for her, etc, and that is natural, and even reaching a conclusion you worry he is not is natural as well. Look, we all believe things, think things, we feel we shouldn’t, I just read something disturbing about a law being passed in another country and my first thought was that I would love to see the people in the country attempting to pass the law and the leaders of a certain religious group lined up and shot…but then again, not exactly going to do anything about it, either, it is what is called being concerned.

To be honest, I suspect your feelings about him are triggered by something else deeper down and what you stated is simply what you could put a handle on.

Couple of points (in no particular order)

-Your D is not at a stage where she is getting serious, she is dating the guy; if she were talking about moving in together or marrying, might be different.

-Anything she does at this point, being so young, is not likely to scar her for life, something we have to remind ourselves, I know.

-Give yourself a chance to see what plays out here, hopefully meet the guy. In the context of what you brought up (and only in that context), often the guy who seems unchallenged or who took the ‘easy’ path often ends up doing better then the driven ones. There is an old joke that has a lot of truth to it, for a number of reasons, that the driven kids who did all the ECs, grades, sat’s, AP’s, got into the HYP mode of school, get into the training programs, often end up reporting to people who went to a state college and got C’s but on the job shined tremendously (and no, that is not just apocryphal, there are real studies on this, some of which I read in grad school a number of years ago getting an MS in Tech Management). A lot of the times people who succeed might surprise you, guy who founded the company I work for has a degree in Chem Engineering from a decent school, and MBA from a cal state school (not even one of the flagships, and certainly not Harvard business school) and the company is an incredible success story shrug… I am not saying that to knock HYP graduates or people who are ‘focused’, just saying it is too early to tell…

And as someone else pointed out, maybe having a mate who isn’t so driven is a good thing for some women (or men) these days. All I can tell you is, the divorce and cheating rate among high power types is pretty high, at least in certain areas, power and success often don’t go well with a good marriage shrug…

I would tell the same thing in this case I would tell to parents upset the kid didn’t make the reach school, often such things are a blessing in disguise. Maybe being at a program the kid wanted to, rather then conventional wisdom, suited him better, you never know. I wasn’t exactly a dean’s list college student, I went to a decent school that today is one of the more competitive places around, and have had a career that few would argue has been successful including making more then a decent salary, even though I wasn’t HYP and didn’t have stellar grades, but I did where it counted. Not saying a kid should emulate me, saying that the idea that there is only one path to success or happiness is something we all need to evaluate.

I more then understand your worry and fears. My son is a serious music student, that has cost a fortune, that has precluded doing the things people think means success (i.e doing intensive academics in school, with all the EC’s, all the right AP classes and 4.0 averages and going to HYP), he is auditioning against competition that makes HYP admissions look easy, going to be paying near full ride at Ivy league like tuition rates, into a position at best that seems like trying to use a step ladder in quicksand in terms of a career, but it is his passion, what he is driven to do, it is scary as hell, but I have enough confidence in him that if anyone can make it work, it is him, and if it doesn’t work out he will make it work.

All you can do is trust your D’s judgement and let it play out as it may. More then likely, this is just dating, something I seem to recall young people (other then a fool like me) does, think of it as practice, as finding out what it means to get to know someone, learn about them, and more importantly, what the person wants and doesn’t want. If the guy matches up with her, that will come out in the wash, if it doesn’t, someday she’ll break up with him and try other people. It isn’t scientific, there is no ‘perfect match’ IMO, the criteria we use is prob not hers in any or most things, so it freaks us out because we want the best…but ultimately that is up to her…and in terms of compatibility, who knows? Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft were married for 40 years, and his mother (according to Mel) after meeting her said “I’m Going to the kitchen”, to which he said “Why?” and his mother said “To put my head in the oven”…and they ended up a fantastically devoted couple that only ended when she died.

I would suggest if your D dates him any length of time to get to know him before worrying much, you might find out he is a decent, warm hearted person who is a good match for your D, while some uber performer might be a cruel, cold hearted jerk only out for himself (as many ambitious people can be)…

BTW, the fact that he went to a smaller school to play sports rather then be on the bench is not necessarily a black mark. Friend of mine went to an elite NE liberal arts college, is brilliant, majored in finance and financial engineering, and saw recruiters for financial firms, despite the fact he had an honors degree level recognition, internships, recruiting from the football team and some other sports teams, kids he knew took “jock courses” that made what he was studying look like nuclear physics, and they were being recruited heavily, not him (last laugh is prob with him, the old boy types like that have a hard time getting jobs these days, quants and financial engineering types can write their own ticket)…:)

bethievt · November 23, 2012, 6:58pm

OP–just try to keep an open mind. I was on CC for months when my son was going through the admissions process. I was a little snobby (though I didn’t know it) and was looking at USN rankings, but I kept my mouth shut. My son picked the school he loved without once looking at the rankings. It turned out so well. This should be a place where you can come and rant and have questions and not be judged.

garland · November 23, 2012, 7:47pm

The bottom line, I think, is that people come on here all the time and “rant” and are not wholesale judged. When that does happen, I think that it’s more constructive to honestly examine why that happens.

And I think that the answer, here, is because the introductory posts displayed a lot of veiled antagonism, toward the unknown BF, and toward CC posters.

When I said, above, that there seemed to be no response to advice, the OP objected and said she did indeed claim to follow the advice of someone who told her to relax.

And the reason I don’t buy that as “listening” is because, rather than hearing what others, in impressive numbers, have urged as a valid stance (withholding judgment until personal experience), instead what has repeatedly been advanced is concealing judgment, which is, I maintain, a very different point of view.

It’s the continued judgmentalism, however much there is a plan to hide it, that dismays some of the posters here. Because the judgment itself, as far as i can see, has not been shaken. Not in the least. So what’s the reason for talking, anyway.

bethievt · November 23, 2012, 8:09pm

garland–I’m just saying I needed this place to communicate. People didn’t always agree with me, but I felt I could say what i needed to say and save my son from dealing with it.

SportsMama · November 23, 2012, 8:10pm

It’s easier to hear what others are saying when they are surrounded by words of encouragement, rather than judgment.

emeraldkity4 · November 23, 2012, 9:13pm

*
It’s easier to hear what others are saying when they are surrounded by words of encouragement, rather than judgment.
*
Its easier to put yourself in a place to receive that when you have established a history with those you wish to give you encouragement, rather than dropping in out of nowhere, making condescending judgments yourself and then acting all hurt about it.

I’ll admit that the OP admitted she was in the wrong by prejudging someone, but I guess the answer was so obvious to me, that asking for advice seemed contrived. I mean how much introspection do you need to realize that the proper course of action for a parent of an adult child regarding their love life is to keep your mouth shut?

lookingforward · November 23, 2012, 9:27pm

Oh, gosh, not all OPs get the wording right. Face it, we have pressure points on CC- and involvement in kids’ romances is one. If this OP had modified one or two details, I think everyone might be rallying to her side.

Colorado_mom · November 23, 2012, 10:13pm

OP - Try not to get too hung up on that point. It’s possible that there was a scholarship involved. Or perhaps he knew that he works best with a balance of academics and exercise. Plenty of bright kids have headed off to college and crashed/burned due to lack of such a balance.

limabeans · November 23, 2012, 11:47pm

Seems to me that some of us here are now declaring the OP isn’t “really” taking that constructive advice that was offered. And the reason I don’t buy that as “listening” is because…. Truth is, how would you know garland? OR, maybe OP should have just written her post in that, “say it here” thread and not even asked for advice.

garland · November 24, 2012, 7:57am

^I’m not going to go back through posts (others are better than at that than I) but the theme of “he’s really a safety, not good enough, etc” has persisted even after many suggestions to withhold judgment before meeting him. Instead, OP said she’d conceal judgment. This is not the same thing. There never seemed to be any “I see what you all are saying and I’ll think about it” but rather “I’ve made up my mind but I’ll be quiet about it.”

Which is her right. But also the reason why the comments persisted.

But nevermind. Too much energy exerted here already.

SportsMama · November 24, 2012, 9:14am

I am speaking from the perspective of a teacher. I look at where someone starts and chart the progress they make. (Not intending to be condescending to the OP; it’s just how I look at things. :))

What I saw was someone who, at the beginning, said she couldn’t lie to her daughter about how she felt. What I saw at the end of her posts was someone who said she would not pass judgment until she had met the guy, would keep an open mind, and would trust her daughter, who seemed to have a good head on her shoulders.

As a teacher, I would say this was a successful learning experience. I’m baffled as to why people are being so judgmental. Maybe I read through all the posts too quickly and missed something (geez, I hate when people do that), but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

rockymtnhigh · November 24, 2012, 12:44pm

Key here is OPEN MIND. Just repeat that to yourself and look if your daughter looks happy. Thats my advice.

mythmom · November 24, 2012, 1:19pm

I think it’s fair to point our values and attitudes we may consider destructive to the OP, her daughter, her daughter’s Bf and society at large.

I don’t feel that a “rant” is protected speech.

Of course, the OP has a First Amendment right and the means to express this ideas, but I think there’s social value in critiquing ideas too.

This is just a for instance that doesn’t pertain in this instance. Had the OP said that she felt her daughter was settling because of this young man’s race, I think many of us would find that unacceptable.

I think many posters would comment on such an attitude, and be right to do so, because it does cause egregious social harm.

On a lesser scale, someone based on a hearsay presentation of looks (or actual looks for that matter), the school he attended, his commitment to his sport also does the society we all live in harm and it’s right to point that out.

Does this demonize the OP? Not at all. We’re all prone to baser emotions and more ennobling emotions.

I agree with garland. We are persisting because behavior is not all that is at stake. Values are too. And perhaps we want to remind ourselves that we don’t want to see people through the lens of reach/match/safety. And it’s possible it’s not even constructive to see schools that well.

My daughter and her BF just left to go to his parents’ house to bake cupcakes. I’m glad, because she usually leaves a mess, and they’re for his friends. He lives in an apartment in Brooklyn and the parents (and my D at this point) live on Long Island.

She graduated from Barnard and spent significant time at Columbia. He graduated from Stony Brook. She’s lived abroad. He hasn’t. She’s had another significant relationship. He hasn’t. And here’s the clincher – at 25 he’s already losing his hair. He just had a buzz cut today to conceal the evidence.

I know my D is struggling with these things. Who’s to say that many of us don’t have a bit of the snob in us or aren’t shallow in some ways. I think my job is to tell her that these things don’t matter. She should judge by character and how their emotional world is together. He does have a STEM masters and is working as a programmer in Manhattan, but he wasn’t there when they started dating.

He is actually sad about her hair, too. And about his school. His parents didn’t offer him the option of a private college. Hers did.

If she decides that he’s not for her, fine with me. But my job is to help her look past superficial things and discover what really makes her happy in life.

I’m not advocating for this young man. I don’t really have a stake in her mate as long as he’s not abusive of her.

So, when the OP expresses values that create a more superficial society, we all suffer.

(In defense of the OP I am as guilty of doing this as the next person. This isn’t an attack on you – just on the ideas the posts reveal.)

I have been attacked much more viciously on all sorts of grounds on these boards, and might even be for this post.

All we can give each other is our honesty and integrity. To be very polite without engaging with each other seems a waste of time to me.

Embarrassed to admit this

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