<p>The above are rules which certainly favor extroverts and written by one who expects all others to conform…no matter how much it may clash with their own personalities. It also prompts the question…isn’t it equally/more rude to induce someone unwillingly into a personal interaction without taking their personalities into consideration? </p>
<p>Surprising to hear myself ask the last question considering I am actually an extrovert who does enjoy exchanging friendly pleasantries with others…including complete strangers. However, I wouldn’t presume to expect others to do the same unless it is at some formal family/social occasion…and like Gourmetmom’s son…I don’t tend to repeat pleasantries once I’ve made them the first time to a given individual. Then again…part of this may be from growing up in NYC where exchanging pleasantries with complete strangers once prompted most NYC natives to wonder whether you’re an out-of-towner or have some sort of mental disorder. </p>
<p>Moreover…the above is a YMMV depending on individuals/families involved. One side of my family would completely agree with you…the other side disagrees and feels it is a sign of mindless conformity to “fake” “touchy-feelyness” that’s annoying at best and unfortunately…promotes “negative socialization” for “proper male behavior”. As you may have surmised…they really subscribed to the idealization of what was dubbed the “strong silent type” in the 40’s and '50s.</p>
<p>My g/f expects her sons to call daily. One does, but the other calls every few days. I think it is excessive.She thinks I haven’t trained my worm well because I am content that he calls weekly.
When a grandparent sends a birthday gift, they expect to be called and thanked. Some GPs are insulted if they don’t receive a call/card/gift for V-Day. I expect some kind of message on Mom’s Day, but not V-Day. I’ve learned to expect that everyone draws their line in the sand differently. For example, Gourmetmom’s mother will have her favorites among the grandchildren, and be disappointed when she sets her expectations high and they don’t deliver.
Prersonally, I think its my responsibility to reach out to the young ones in my family. I go to gatherings with little projects or craft sets, and I try to engage them.</p>
<p>Society has minimum norms or expectations of its members. A certain amount of conformity is expected. </p>
<p>How far will your kids get if they:</p>
<p>don’t answer the teacher?</p>
<p>don’t call the boss back?</p>
<p>don’t inquire why someone they love is crying?</p>
<p>don’t ever call anyone back?</p>
<p>don’t acknowledge a gift? </p>
<p>and they should pretty much get this by the time they are 10.</p>
<p>There are minimum expectations. Parents should teach their kids to do things they dont necessarily want to because its the right thing to do.</p>
<p>Yes, that is my opinion.</p>
<p>I was introduced to a new hire at work. Three people. The introduction was made and the new hire never looked up from his phone on which he was texting. This is not okay. Someone needed to tell him this…when he was 10.</p>
<p>sax, you are exaggerating in respect to the children being talked about here. I don’t think anyone has claimed that those items you listed are okay. I suspect there are very few kids here that people are talking about that don’t answer the teacher or call the boss back. Unless they are pretty high on the spectrum Aspergers, and that is a whole different issue.</p>
<p>Emotionally remote does not = willfully ignorant, and if those parents would have just taught those kids how to behave when they were ten, all would be great. Please. I have seen the most outgoing expressive kids, who never miss a chance to go overboard saying what is expected…also be the rudest, most cruel and self-centered people. And the quieter, less expressive child may have never said an unkind thing in his life, though not being as handy with a quick comeback, small talk and saying the right thing.</p>
<p>A number of years ago, I told my son, “I love you,” for the millionth time, while hugging him. And he said with a bemused tone, “Of course you do.” And let me hug him just a little bit longer than usual. Rude? Well, I guess it’s all a matter of interpretation. This kind of personality thinks, of course you love me and I love you. It’s such an obvious statement, like the sky is blue and the grass is green, why say it all the time? I guess it’s a trade off. He’s never been mean to me, never misbehaved, and never told me he hated me.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to suggest he was immature. He may actually be mature for his age. I added the ‘immature’ part to reflect that he is just still young and there is lots of time (and hope) that he has yet to grow into a person that the OP doesn’t find quite so challenging. </p>
<p>He might be an INTJ (or ENTJ, I don’t think the I or E matter here), but with age, I think he’ll mellow (learn how his behavior impacts others, find alternative responses, have less need to carry a personae). You see plenty of these kids on CC and other online forums…they aren’t quite so NTJ-ish as they age it seems. </p>
<p>I just also want to add that how our kids are with us (or even how we think they are with others) may be quite different than how they are out of our viewpoint. If they are functioning in the world, their friends, employers, professors like them, that is pretty darn good at this age. </p>
<p>I also want to add that this is not unique to males! I have a daughter (also engineer head) who is like this.</p>
<p>From OP’s opening post:
“He has always been compliant, respectful, and helpful to adults-his parents, grandparents, and teachers. But he is so remote. Now that he is away at college he is almost fierce about wanting to be left alone. He rarely and reluctantly calls and texts- phone calls are a little stilted. He doesn’t ask about his family, just shares what he has been doing. I really try to give him his space- I don’t pester him with calls and texts. If over a week goes by and we don’t hear from him, I usually send him an e-mail or text asking him to call when it is convenient.”</p>
<hr>
<p>Folks are getting off in the reeds a bit about rude, non compliant kids who never call home and don’t acknowledge their grandmothers. Mom says that her son is compliant and respectful. He does call or text from time to time. He is just not as interested in the goings on of the family as she would like to stay connected to him. For perspective, I call my mom every day or 2 now. Freshman year I may have called once every 2 or 3 weeks. I was busy with my own life. When I did call I may have talked about the papers I was writing etc. I don’t remember worrying about what my sister was up to. My mom always took the attitude that she didn’t want letters home while we were at camp. We weren’t supposed to be busy missing her we were supposed to be spreading our wings and focusing on doing new things. It sounds like OP has a son who is naturally less prone to chatting just to chat and he’s absorbed in his new environment.</p>
<p>Me, too. Counseling helps…so does the passage of time. </p>
<p>For most of PMKjr’s life the mother he needed and the mother I wanted to be were one and the same. I am finding that being adults in the world together means more of being the mother he needs (one who respects his fierce independence) and less of being the mother I would love to be (very, very involved!) </p>
<p>I’m proud of my son and thrilled that he is making his way in the world but, wow, do I miss him and, wow, has this adjustment been difficult.</p>
<p>Minnymom- My son is an engineering student and though he the outgoing type, he has several friends who are more like your son. One of them is a good friend he has known since high school and I think they will always have a core of friendship between them even if they take different paths in life. Try not to worry so much about his social life because he probably manage just fine.</p>
<p>I tend to agree with sax. It’s like oh they are an introvert so we can’t say anything. There is a basic level of interaction in a family that one should try and reach. Introvert or not. What of mom ignored her son when he was little cause she was introverted. Didn’t respond to his questions. Would that be okay? An adult male should have the wherewithal to communicate with his own family and not just about himself. That is not introverted that is selfish.<br>
It is sad. I know many young men who care how mom feels. And notices when they just need a hug. Doesn’t kill em either.</p>
<p>Oh please. How do terrify anyone. I just dpnt buy into oh he’s an introvert so he doesn’t have to be kind or see that his mom just wants a little warmth from her son, whom she gave her all to for two decades. How selfish can a person be to no ask, hey, mom how are you? If we shrug off rudeness and pass it off as oh that’s just my son, he doesn’t much concern himself with us anymore just is silly.</p>
<p>We are so defensive of rudeness from a kid to a parent it makes me sad. He wont out grow it if he can get awaywith being a jerk. Sorry to be so blunt. But he is being a jerk. Calling it introverted is an excuse. I am not asking for much, just common courtesy, not effusiveness, just basic human compassion and understanding beyond oneself. </p>
<p>And before you say, well, look at yourself, I am not saying oh, yell at him or try and change him, I am just saying why should we accept so little.</p>
<p>I have seen parents of shy kids say, soothe kid can hear, oh she’s just shy. Not helpful. When you say that, the kid thinks they are supposed to be shy as that is what the parent is saying. Not that you have to push the kid onto the stage, but gently work with them. By accepting and tacitly encouraging such personalty traits, which I don’t think need to stay with a person their whole life to the degree where they can’t or won’t have basic human interactions with family, much less others, we do our children a disservice. </p>
<p>I am not saying everyone will be the same, or have the same degree of openness, verbalness, sharing, compassion, but indent believe our expectations need to be so low either.</p>
<p>I just thought this bore repeating. This was and is my son. He’s now 21 and has come back. The other day he was talking about a class and I asked a question to which he replied, “I can’t really explain it to you in a phone call…so, what’s new with you?” I was literally speechless. :)</p>
<p>"We are so defensive of rudeness from a kid to a parent it makes me sad. He wont out grow it if he can get awaywith being a jerk. Sorry to be so blunt. But he is being a jerk. Calling it introverted is an excuse. I am not asking for much, just common courtesy, not effusiveness, just basic human compassion and understanding beyond oneself.</p>
<p>And before you say, well, look at yourself, I am not saying oh, yell at him or try and change him, I am just saying why should we accept so little."</p>
<p>I don’t think you even read any of the OPs posts very carefully. If you would have, you’d realize that you are reading way more into what she said and making assumptions because of other situations you have seen. Of course we all read things and fill in the blanks the way our life has led us to, but to use your own words, “I am not asking for much, just common courtesy, not effusiveness, just basic human compassion and understanding beyond oneself.” It’s always intriguing to me how we can read a few sentences someone writes and build an entire imaginary story upon something we know nothing about.</p>
<p>This is funny. I know the authors doing this work. The lead - who I think is not mentioned here- is a self-describe introvert. And a tenured full professor at Wharton. </p>
<p>Most of the tenured full professors at the top business schools that I know were ‘introverts’ and would still describe themselves that way. They seem to make do just fine :)</p>
<p>Empathy? The problem with extroverts, Seahorsesrock, is that they are so busy voicing their own opinions that they don’t pause to consider the situation from the other side’s perspective
(…I kid. That’s a return for your lack of understanding of us introverts!) </p>
<p>I’m an introvert and a college student, and I doubt minnymom’s son would see the situation that way at all. It’s more likely that now he is in college, he is striving to be capable and self sufficient, and distancing himself from parents is a simple way for him to find a sense of independence. While minnymom is missing the connection she previously had with her son so she checks on him now and then for her own emotional need, her son may see this as his parents fussing over him and not trusting him enough to let him find his way on his own. In general we don’t normally see parent as someone who needs to be comforted until we’re old enough, with enough experience and insight to know otherwise. What parents thought to be expressed as love might have been taken as intrusive inquiries on topics the other isn’t comfortable enough or deems relevant enough to talk about. </p>
<p>Rather than continually pestering someone with attempts at contact that you know aren’t working, why not try it the other way around, mention casually on the phone once that you’re busy (minding over his other siblings, work, other things in life), then stop calling him. Sooner than later he’ll wonder what happened and start calling you back. The thing is, your kids care about you very much, and they need you in their lives just as much, but sometimes you have to give them the chance to show that affection on their terms, with a little patience.</p>
<p>"While minnymom is missing the connection she previously had with her son so she checks on him now and then for her own emotional need, her son may see this as his parents fussing over him and not trusting him enough to let him find his way on his own. In general we don’t normally see parent as someone who needs to be comforted until we’re old enough, with enough experience and insight to know otherwise. What parents thought to be expressed as love might have been taken as intrusive inquiries on topics the other isn’t comfortable enough or deems relevant enough to talk about. "</p>
<p>xrCalico - really well put! I’ve been reading this thread with a lot of interest since I am in the same situation, and I think your post said it best. I think what bothers me about seahorse’s approach is that it attempts to shame and manipulate the son into doing her bidding. Like another poster said, we’re used to being a Mom on our terms, and now as our sons are grown, we have to mother them on <em>their</em> terms. Sometimes we don’t get what we want when we want it.</p>
<p>But I do still agree that there comes a point when your burgeoning adult can be reminded of his adult responsibilities, if he should go for weeks at a time without being in touch. I think you can have that conversation, if it becomes necessary, in a respectful way.</p>
<p>You’re right, mom483, xrCalico’s post was really well put. Very likely quite accurate. It’s hard to believe xrCalico is a college student and not an experienced parent, with that sort of insight.</p>
<p>Reading all these posts has been comforting for me, mother of an emotionally remote D. (And yes, she’s a STEM major) She does call us, but getting her to engage in a satisfying conversation can be like pulling teeth. I generally have to ask all the questions, and her responses are terse. Sometimes, she will ask what’s going on with us, but seldom will use our response as a springboard for further conversation. </p>
<pre><code> Surprisingly, she joined a sorority and so we know she is capable of engaging in small talk. But I think it’s hard for her, and I guess when she’s with her family she wants to just relax and not have to worry about making conversation. She has never been comfortable with physical displays of affection. The closest she would come to that when she was a child was playing with my hair. Although she’s a very pretty girl, she has never had a boyfriend (and she’s a senior in college). So, I worry about her.
But every once in a while, she’ll do something that lets me know there’s a beating heart inside. For example, she knew that H had been out of town since last Saturday and she called tonight and said, “Mom, are you feeling lonely at home without Dad?” For most other parents, that would be no big deal. But for those of us with children who seldom display empathy, a call like that is a real gift
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