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<p>She said she’s an introvert. That’s why, right?</p>
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<p>Funny part is that I happen to be an extrovert…but understand introverts enough to realize that imposing extrovert standards of communication frequency/heavily laden with emotional type communication is a serious imposition that most sensing feely type extroverts tend to be oblivious of…especially in a national culture which greatly favors such extroverts. </p>
<p>Moreover, expectations of communications…whether frequency and type is a YMMV depending on the family and individuals within it. </p>
<p>While once a week may be the norm with some on cc…doing so with one side of my family would be regarded as a sign of severe immaturity if desired by child and excessive emotional needyness/inability to let go if demanded by the parent(s)…especially if the child happens to be male. </p>
<p>If one was 18 or heading off to college…the child concerned was expected to completely manage on his/her own…including footing part of the tuition if necessary and to call/write letter home around every 3-8+ weeks. If the interval is longer…this side of the family would assume the child is busy with academic work and socializing with his/her undergrad peers and so long as respectable grades are maintained and they have plenty of friends/activities…be regarded as a manifestation the child is industrious in his/her studies and building his/her social network…a positive thing.</p>
<p>At my workplace we did a team building exercise with a Myers-Briggs like quiz. I forget the name, but it was a shorter questionnaire with the goal of identifying not personality types but workplace communication styles. One is identified as red, yellow, green or blue (or sometime a combination of tendencies). First we did a secret ballot to identify what we thought each co-worker was. The goal was not to wallow in our own personality style but to see how we could better communicate with our co-workers by understanding their styles better, meeting them partway with our interactions and trying to give people the information that they need in a format that they are prepared to take it in. The burden is placed more on the person who desires to communicate. </p>
<p>For example, when someone is trying to tell me a story or need I’m a “just the facts” person. Give me the bottom line up front in a nutshell, then you can tell me the backstory (blue on this scale). I have a husband and son who take 10 minutes to get where they’re going with something - all modifiers and backstory with the real content and action items at the end. This drives me nuts. I have been known to ask if they could please give me the quick bottom line so that I will be better able to focus on listening to their story. That seems to work for everyone.</p>
<p>This is stuff that most adults are still working on, so I wouldn’t expect teens to have it perfected. It could help OP to identify her style and what she needs/expects from an interaction. Maybe she could modify her expectations and style just enough to communicate what she wants to or do an offer to son like, “I respect your style and I’m not going to press you for detailed stories of your life, I know that’s not your thing - could you meet me part way with my style and do __________ for me?”</p>
<p>Cobrat. You have described one half of your family as having very different expectations of their young adults communication. Could this be a cultural difference?</p>
<p>Saintfan. I agree with your idea that people meet each other in communication styles so that both parties benefit.</p>
<p>Calico. I think the behavior you describe in your post is very normal behavior for all young adults striving to become independent. It is expected. I do believe though that most kids are aware that they are purposefully not responding as much to their parents as they make this break. They know their parents would like an answer to a text for example.</p>
<p>There comes a point in most peoples lives when they understand that other people do not see and experience the world exactly as they do. This is extremely important to know and they can use this knowledge throughout their lives to get along and understand other people around them.</p>
<p>Some people need to be taught this. </p>
<p>If your lack of communication with your mom hurts her feelings there is a good chance that this same dynamic happens with other people you know that care about you. If you are unaware of this you can go your entire life without developing any close relationships and be confused as to why this is happening.</p>
<p>So someone should tell you. Someone should teach you that others expect more communication and when they don’t get it they wander away and find others who will provide this.</p>
<p>If a person knows this and still wants to behave this way that is fine. Its a choice and they have to be ready to accept the consequences of emotional distance. </p>
<p>But for those who are unaware they need to be told. It’s unfair to Johnny to just say to yourself " johnny is just shy, johnny doesn’t like to talk to others, thats just the way johnny is."</p>
<p>Labeling can help you understand people like this but it does nothing to help them get along in day to day experiences.</p>
<p>I agree with sax. I am working in a different country, and their communicating style is different than ours. </p>
<p>I was having a hard time with local HR because they wouldn’t respond to me when I have queries. We were at odds for sometime until we sat down to talk about it. </p>
<p>I said I need them to respond to my emails. HR rep said they respond when they have an answer for me, which could take weeks sometimes. She also said that also do not like to give bad news. </p>
<p>I told the rep that I would like her to acknowledge my emails, let me know she is working on it, and give me an ETD. Even if it’s bad news, I would rather know than not know. </p>
<p>We get along much better now, and she is getting along much better with her HR colleagues in the US and UK. Just taking few seconds to respond to someone goes a long way in having a good relationship with someone. But letting someone know when communication isn’t working for you is a good way to solve the problem too.</p>
<p>Ive experienced some pretty needy parents in my time.</p>
<p>I had a rule that I get a proof of life text on Sunday’s. That was pretty much all I really NEEDED in order to not overly worried.</p>
<p>Truth is, I very rarely do the calling to my kids these days. And with two already well into their college careers and the third on her way, I imagine this last one will be rather non-communicative that freshman year as well. What I find somewhat funny is that when they call and I sometimes miss it - which is actually pretty rare - they will KEEP calling until they get ahold of me. Calling the cell, the house, the cell and then finally their dad. What’s their first question to him when he answers? Where’s Mom?</p>
<p>Being rude is one thing. Just not being a chatty cathy (or clyde) when they are just finding their way? Pretty typical.</p>
<p>[Sax said: There comes a point in most peoples lives when they understand that other people do not see and experience the world exactly as they do. This is extremely important to know and they can use this knowledge throughout their lives to get along and understand other people around them. Some people need to be taught this. </p>
<p>If your lack of communication with your mom hurts her feelings there is a good chance that this same dynamic happens with other people you know that care about you. If you are unaware of this you can go your entire life without developing any close relationships and be confused as to why this is happening. ]</p>
<p>Sax - You hit the nail on the head. As parents, we can put up with this behavior because they’re our kids and we love them. But the rest of the world is not so forgiving. I have tried to explain to my D that her remoteness is not only hurtful to her family but also could be preventing her from getting the other things she wants in life – closer friendships and a committed romantic relationship. Perhaps my message has not been direct enough, perhaps she has heard it and can’t accept it, or perhaps she has heard it and is simply not capable of changing.</p>
<p>I’ve found this thread great because it presents a range of perspectives, not just opinions or advice, but ways of understanding and relating to the original post: Some have focused on personality or styles of relating. Others have discussed interpersonal interaction, how we communicate and affect each other. There have been issues like etiquette; and, developmental ones, like becoming an independent adult and changes in the dynamics of the family.</p>
<p>I’ll add another context and perspective: living very closely with a group of adolescents. I’m thinking primarily of that first year of college life in a dorm. If one is accustomed to having the comforts of home, such as having more living space and privacy in one’s bedroom-- dorm life, I would think, would be stressful. </p>
<p>I wondered if when our son would interact with us, especially that first year of college, part of returning to home base and relaxing is knowing that he didn’t have to be as sociable or even as considerate because we’re family. I’m not saying that he was rude, only that some of what might be perceived as emotional distance or adolescent remoteness was also a way to refuel emotionally and reconnect. </p>
<p>Home is a safe place where we’re accepted. And, fortunately, late adolescence is a transition into adulthood. We all grow-up.</p>
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<p>I agree with this 100%.</p>
<p>I have found that using humor to try to engage with my S to be much more effective than lecturing him on social niceties or demanding that he call. He’s always had a good sense of humor, so that usually gets the point across.</p>
<p>Its sort of ironic, but it seems we spend the first 10 yrs of our childrens lives teaching them pretty black and white rules with respect to right/wrong, manners and social behaviors. Then they spend the next 10 yrs unlearning them, as all those rules become more gray and more dependent on the social context.</p>
<p>There is also a biological/neurological perspective to this discussion. For instance, generally speaking, male brains have more gray matter than female brains, which controls math, spatial, logical processing, and females have more white matter which controls language, social and emotions. At the same time, because of differences in their brains, males and females who are doing the same task may use different approaches and different parts of their brain to complete the task; men tend to use a more systemic, logical process and women a more empathetic, emotional process. This is of course oversimplified but these differences are real although certainly not static (biology is NOT destiny!). Studies have shown increases in gray matter in girls who are exposed to spatial activities, as their skills to complete the activity develop. </p>
<p>Simon Baron-Cohen, an expert in the field of autism, has developed a theory that autism is really an extreme male brain - and MRIs have shown higher amounts of gray matter in individuals on the spectrum, both male and female, than are in the typical male. One problem with those on the autism spectrum is that their brain circuits are more rigidly hard-wired and compartmentalized than even neurotypical males and it is more difficult for neural connections to cross over into different areas of their brains (also controlled by white matter), which in turn makes it more difficult for them, for example, to apply the the black and white social rules they learn, to more general, gray areas.</p>
<p>So it seems that the more gray matter there is in the brain (or at least in certain parts), the more difficulty there may be in understanding and using appropriate empathetic, social and emotional behaviors. </p>
<p>But the bottom line is that gender, introversion, Aspergers, etc., are NOT excuses for what might be perceived as less empathetic behaviors since appropriate behaviors CAN be taught, but they ARE explanations that need to be recognized and understood by others, not only to help us understand that all of social behavior is on a spectrum but also because this understanding can help shape the WAY we teach our kids to become more empathetic and to develop socially and emotionally. What we have done in the past or what we might do with girls may not always work for boys…</p>
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<p>Only in the sense that the family having far greater expectations for communication frequency and heavy emotionalism is far more assimilated(wholesale) into the mainstream upper-middle class suburban US culture, somewhat more materialistic, and they seem to have adopted the mainstream American pop cultural disdain for deep thinkers/intellectuals*…despite some of them having attended their nation’s equivalent of HYPSMC. </p>
<p>That tends to cause clashes with the other side of the family and the “black sheep” members who tend to lean much more towards the other side of the family…especially an older deeply intellectual great-aunt and aunt I was very close to growing up. </p>
<p>While I still get along with some older relatives from that side where the above description fits them to a T and have no problems striking up conversations with them on my own initiative…I’ve found I have to keep the conversations at the extremely superficial “How’s the weather” variety** to avoid having their eyes glaze over or worse…having heated arguments about our differences…especially on the last issue. </p>
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<li>Including actually using the terms “nerd/geek” in a disparaging manner towards the more academically/intellectually inclined. Behavior which sets me off as even though I don’t fit the nerd/geek stereotype very well…I deeply respect and value friends/acquaintances who do.<br></li>
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<p>** Done mostly out of politeness and a desire to maintain some family harmony. However, it takes great effort on my part as I find such conversations…if prolonged to be quite boring and devoid of much point/meaning…as most INTJ/ENTJ or “NT” types.</p>
<p>Interesting, scansmom, thanks. I was thinking about what your wrote, and it occurred to me that sometimes, in parenting our children, having more information is actually more confusing. It’s so hard to know when behavior is ‘normal’ and when it’s a sign professionals should be brought in. Especially since so many of the professionals themselves seem unable to even decide, what the problem is, much less help…</p>
<p>Actually, my understanding of brain differences with re to autism is that the brains of autistic people have more WHITE matter relative to neurotypical brains. White matter is the connection parts of neurons, which brings up intriguing ideas about connections between regions of the brain, and between the halves of the brain. In any case, the physiology is interesting, though in the context of this discussion, is probably not that important, except that what we see as “remoteness” might be a more “male” trait.</p>
<p>Scansmom, thats some really interesting stuff. Thanks.</p>
<p>Skylark. The fact that your daughter knew your husband was gone and then inquired if you were lonely is an awesome bit of info for you. She is aware of your feelings. To be at school and in a sorority are indications she is also comfortable and well liked. </p>
<p>Maybe she will meet a young man that is much like herself and they will just always be content doing things and having fun. She may be less emotional than most people but she sounds like it is working for her at this point. She may be blissfully unaware of many of the deeper emotions that swirl around in others.</p>
<p>I have one kid that does not pick up on many social cues. I have always been very direct and vocal in how others behaviors affect me when he is around. Its the best I can do and all I have. I hope it helps him at least be aware of how some behaviors make others feel. If I don’t hear from a friend for a month I feel bad. If I don’t keep in touch with a friend and they become distant, well, maybe, its partly my fault.</p>
<p>jaylynn, well I did say it was oversimplified! (somewhat intentionally on my part) 
but yes I also recall reading some articles saying there is more white OVERALL in autistic brains, but in regions where the gray appears, there is also increased gray, compared to typical brains.</p>
<p>I think there is still a lot that is not yet understood. It may come down to where all that extra white matter is located in the autistic brain and what function it plays in those areas. For instance (and this is just me thinking aloud here…) my Aspie S also has a sensory integration disorder which not only made him overly sensitive to/unable to tolerate many sounds, touches, smells, tastes etc but also effected his anxiety level so that he was in a “fight or flight” mode of anxiety all the time…perhaps too much white/too many neural connections in areas that control the senses so that they can no longer be filtered - which in turn prevents the autistic person from being able to function in a normal manner? When he was young S would sometimes completely tune out everything else to the point where you thought he was deaf, he HAD to shut out the rest of the world in order to focus on whatever he was doing, otherwise it was all just too distracting and he would fall apart emotionally. Do not let anyone tell you that individuals on the spectrum are not emotional, they are - just not in the ways we’d like them to be!</p>
<p>“But every once in a while, she’ll do something that lets me know there’s a beating heart inside. For example, she knew that H had been out of town since last Saturday and she called tonight and said, “Mom, are you feeling lonely at home without Dad?” For most other parents, that would be no big deal. But for those of us with children who seldom display empathy, a call like that is a real gift”</p>
<p>Yes. That kind of gift can last for years, if necessary. Most people would say, so what’s the big deal? But I’ll bet many people on this thread know exactly what you’re talking about.</p>
<p>Here is one of my most treasured memories:</p>
<p>When DS was in 6th grade his wonderful teacher talked with her class often about integrity, personal responsibility, and caring for others. DS had been up all night with the stomach flu and mom and dad had been up with him. He wrote this note on binder paper and left it on the table later in the day:</p>
<p>"Dear Mom and Dad,</p>
<p>Thank you very much for helping me out last night by staying with me for part of the night. I also would like to thank you for always being here for me when I run into an obstacle.</p>
<p>With lots of love,
xxxxx"</p>
<p>I will keep this note always. Coming from my kiddo, I know what it meant for him to write it and it is very meaningful to me.</p>
<p>“But every once in a while, she’ll do something that lets me know there’s a beating heart inside. For example, she knew that H had been out of town since last Saturday and she called tonight and said, “Mom, are you feeling lonely at home without Dad?” For most other parents, that would be no big deal. But for those of us with children who seldom display empathy, a call like that is a real gift”</p>
<p>Yes. That kind of gift can last for years, if necessary. Most people would say, so what’s the big deal? But I’ll bet many people on this thread know exactly what you’re talking about. "</p>
<p>Jumping in to say that I totally get this. I am an INTJ, and part of being an INTJ is that you just … spend a lot of time in your own head, naturally. So if a kid is busy at college, he may just forget to ask, “So how are you, mom? How’s grandmom? How’s the family? What’s new?” Doesn’t mean he doesn’t love mom, grandmom, etc. It’s just part of how they are wired. </p>
<p>I have one child who is ISTJ and one who is ISFJ or P (not sure) and the T vs F differences are simply there. One will ask how we are and it’s more “checking off the box”; the other genuinely thinks about it. It’s ok, though. People are different.</p>
<p>Don’t know, don’t care about the acronyms or M-B test results- just a way of putting people into boxes that may help them. A lot of opinions here. I liked the mom who mentioned many posts ago how her extroverted style caused problems with raising her introverted son. Ditto for me. Add in an introverted H. Back then we didn’t have the resources to read up on basic personality styles that are hard wired. I went to a GT conference where I learned 75% of the population is extroverted while 75% of the highly gifted are introverted. Hard to be an extroverted gifted (even if only mid range)!</p>
<p>Since most are extroverted to a degree (many good books on the subject and it makes sense) it is hard for most to understand where they other type is coming from. Aside from that, it doesn’t matter what personality type the OP’s son is- no matter what scale/test you choose. More important is for her to realize that her son is being perfectly normal for his gender and stage in life. Just because parents want a certain amount of feedback doesn’t mean the child has to, or should, comply. A rude awakening for some parents to realize they no longer control their children. Healthy for the kids to break away.</p>
<p>Go ahead and embarrass your kid if there is no response over weeks despite repeated requests- contact his roommate/friends- schools list email info if you don’t have cell phone numbers. Then you know he is alive and well when he calls back angry with you. Never expect weekly chats or to know his life although it is nice to set up a weekly time to be in touch.</p>
<p>Expect your child to show you his worst side. Empathy isn’t equivalent to showing emotions outwardly. No one size fits all, don’t try to fit round and square pegs into the same slot… I think the OP has had a ton of ideas to help her worries about her son. Normal is a wide range.</p>