Extrovert/introvert friendships from the extrovert’s perspective - do others sometimes feel as I do

Thanks to all who are replying! I am learning a lot. @AnAsmom - yes, you sound very similar to my friend.

@calmom - Like @conmama, I have a difficult time relating to the analogies you present. I think it’s because you seem to view the traits of introversion or nonplanning or non reaching out (whatever one labels that) as immutable, and I don’t. I guess for those who are introverts but who can see my side and acknowledge that never initiating could be annoying, hurtful, etc. why you don’t do something about it if you value the friendship? It is easier for me to understand the social anxiety aspect or fear of rejection with someone who is a new-to-you friend, but not with someone whom you’ve known for 25 years!

And, I should clarify - it doesn’t have to be a phone call - I’d be fine with a text, random photo, email.

I need plenty of alone time to recharge but I feel like friendships are two way streets. I would be hurt if a friend never initiated reaching out. It is tiring to always host and plan, at least for me…

I basically never do things with people unless they specifically invite me, even when I was younger it was that way and has only gotten worse as I have gotten older. In addition to the inability to inititate contact(whether with a specific person or just at an event), I find that I cannot speak when there are a lot of people around. If someone approaches me first and it is a one-on-one situation then I love talking to people, it isn’t that I don’t like being around people or talking to them, I just can’t overcome the anxiey to put myself “out there” most of the time.

There have been plenty of my kids events that I have attended, and unless someone speaks to me first I will not talk to a single person the entire time. I live in a small town, my kids go to the same school that I attended, and we go to the church that I was raised in, so I know lots of these people, and have known some for many years. The thought of walking into a room of people, speaking out loud, or initiating a conversation makes me feel like I am going to puke and pass out all at the same time.

I’m an introvert who really only likes to be around small groups at a time. But, a one-on-one outing with a friend seems like - at least to me - heaven for an introvert. Those are my favorites because I really get to bond with my friend. That being said, because I do get my “energy” from being alone, I don’t always feel the need to reach out to socialize the way some extroverts do. It’s not that I don’t enjoy going out with a friend, it’s just that I simply don’t think about it. Now, that being said, I’ve never once thought I was “bothering” a friend by calling to see if they’d like to get together, especially a good friend. My best friend is also an introvert, and we have found that we really have to plan the next engagement at the end of whatever time we’re spending together. Otherwise, we both just carry on with our own lives.

@HeartofDixie - that sounds really hard. I’m sorry.

Snipped just to address this one part, speaking only for myself: social anxiety and fear of rejection don’t depend on the duration of a friendship. I feel them about every single relationship in my life.

Conmama summed up how I felt:

[quote]
in regards to who cares who initiates the invite… Not ever being called and invited makes me feel like I like the other person more than they like me. What’s wrong with me? Do they call other friends? I start to feel like I’m begging for the friendship. Would I be dropped like a hot potato if I never called.

It’s tough sometimes not feeling like my friendship is valued and wanted by the radio silence. [unquote].

It felt even worse after I became widowed, but still working with an irregular schedule. The silence was deafening.

Now I am retired, I have some regular activities - classes and exercising - but I have started to reach out for social activities. I’ll send a bcc email invitation to several folks from different areas of my life, for a specific event - say a Moth story slam or kayaking - and then arrange a meeting location to those who are available. One time I had 4 people meet me, none of whom knew each other; another time the 3 of us who went had a long history together.
But what is good for me about this approach is the validation I get from the responses. Many who cannot make the event will say ‘not this time, but keep inviting me’ or ‘I can’t make that but are you free for coffee on Thurday’. It feels less needy/less rejection to me if I cast a wide net and just go with whomever is available.

I’ve made a conscious decision to reach out as much as I have to in order to have a social life. I get a little annoyed at people who have left our church after attending for a long time because “nobody ever reached out to us.” Huh, I’ve known you for many years and I don’t recall YOU ever asking us over…

Yes, it should be a two-way street, but I’m not going to lose sleep over if I’m the one who has to do the planning and organizing.

I am lucky to be in a book club that gets together frequently. :slight_smile:

Do I think social anxiety is real and immutable? Well, yeah. I mean, I guess there is cognitive behavioral therapy and some drugs if you don’t mind the side effects and the cost, but it’s not like one can defeat the anxiety with the application of willpower.

All of this has been very helpful in understanding where those who do not initiate feel. But, those of us on the other side don’t know if it’s because of all the reasons you stated, or we just value the friendship more. It’s something I will never ask.

I want to stress that with the friends I do have, I reach out as often as they do. For a stretch of time it was me more than the others, but when I took a break the others took it on. There was no change in frequency, so it wasn’t that I was going beyond anyone’s capacity; we’d just unconsciously let it get into a thing, and everyone adjusted without anyone having to say anything and without losing anyone from the group.

I’m also the one who let a relationship fade when the other person didn’t keep the momentum of contact going after quite a few years of more balanced give and take. In that case I figure life stage and career change played a role. Our available headspace probably changed. I still feel very warmly towards her.

My world is getting smaller, though, and it’s comfortable for me. I don’t seek out new friendships but feel very well supported by the ones I have – and try to make sure they feel the same from me.

I lean towards an “it’s nothing personal” interpretation of no contact from someone, but I sympathize with those who find it hurtful. Because at some point it does come down to the reality that contacting the other person isn’t as high a priority as a current crisis, other friends, illness, or surviving my own personal demons. Someone on the not-receiving end can’t know the reason, and that can be hard. It’s one reason I keep my world small – I want to keep it at a level I can maintain that works for the others involved.

I have a “Mommy Mafia” group that gets together for lunch once a month. Two of us always initiate it, but it doesn’t bother us. An email or two and we’ve got it set up. Nothing to fuss over.

Another long-time friendship I did sort of let slide because in that instance I was doing all of the communicating. We didn’t live nearby each other. It became much easier to set up a lunch with a local friend or friend group than to catch up with a long distance friend who rarely reached out in turn.

@conmama looks like we cross-posted, I think my #70 goes into what you brought up in your #69 to some degree?

I have two very close friends who want much more frequent contact than I’m comfortable with, sometimes as often as twice a week, and they tell me that it bothers them when I don’t do the same. I feel like I’m gasping for air when this happens. I do call them and invite them but that happens maybe once every month. Am I a bad friend because I don’t call as frequently as they call? I don’t think so but there’s always the anxiety about hurting them.
I would like to be relaxed and not anxious about our friendship. But because I value them as friends I push myself beyond my capacity to reciprocate.

Other friends have tacitly accepted that I am who I am. They call when they feel like it, without keeping count, and I call them back when I feel like talking to them. We’re part of a larger group that meets once every 2-3 months (we all take turns to plan this) so I don’t feel pressured to make time for them on an individual basis. That happens on their schedule.
I’m a low frequency contact type of person with everyone. I call my parents, kids and siblings once a week or once every 2 weeks. Any more than that, we would worry that something is wrong.
My best friend (who is a ‘bird of the same feather’) and I talk about 10 times a year(we have been living in different time zones for the past 20 years). Most of the calls are clustered around special occasions in both families which are close to one time of the year so we sometimes go for 3-4 months without calling. Of course, now with texting and WhatsApp, we do check in more often than that.
Our friendship has survived forty plus years like this. Neither of us gets upset if the other delays the call. We don’t keep tabs on who calls the most and though at one time we tried the ‘you call this month and I will the next’ approach, it didn’t work out. She’s more thoughtful than I am so she probably calls me more often than I call her.

Wow this thread really is fascinating! I’m interested because I feel some of what OP says in the first post, as in doubts about the reciprocity of the friendship, or feeling put upon by always being the reacher outer. I consider myself neutral on the introvert/extrovert spectrum, but I am a reacher outer in some of my relationships. Most are mutual…thank goodness!

So, those of you who have a hard time reaching out, and I’ve learned more about you now, would you prefer the reachers-out just don’t reach out? Do you like getting together, but you just are super uncomfortable initiating it? Does it feel OK to you to have all of the responsibility for the relationship continuing to be on one person, or is this NOT OK, but your introversion prevents you from doing something about it? And like in post #69, do the reacher outers have to just wonder, or ask? (And I have to admit, this feels like even more burden on the reacher outer, having to ask this difficult or potentially awkward question).

Sounds like in many cases, there are difficult feelings on both sides, in general, the non-ROrs have a very hard time reaching out and/or participating in the plans, and the ROers have a hard time feeling like they have the burden of keeping the relationship going and doubts as to whether their friendship is reciprocated. How do we work this out?

PS: To lighten up: I got my DS a T shirt “Introverts Unite! : Separately, and in your own homes”

Just because you don’t reach out doesn’t mean you don’t take any responsibility for the relationship. If someone reaches out to me, I will give my opinions on time/date/place that might work out or to suggest. If I accept or agree to an invite I will enjoy and participate - I might not be dancing on the table (or i MIGHT) but I’ll engage!

I think “you” have to get over the idea that making the first call or invite IS the relationship. It’s important but to maintain the relationship there must be shared enjoyment once you get together.

I’ll admit to not needing lots of social time though. A weekend with no scheduled plans is a dream weekend to me! (that does not include family stuff).

I don’t this is an introvert/extrovert issue. My children and I are all introverts but we’re all also very social.

I think the situation has to be approached individually because the reasons for it probably differ. Sometimes it’s like the family holiday dinner that’s just always at Grandma’s until Grandma says she’s tired of doing it. People are just used to their habits. Do if you’re tired of doing the planning say something.

Some people seem to be shy and others have anxiety issues. I know people who like to socialize but have a spouse who doesn’t, and other couples who both like to socialize but don’t have the money to do it a lot or are embarrassed by their home. Those situations are tougher. I try to meet people where they are.

Getting people together doesn’t bother me. I always figured if they didn’t value our friendship they wouldn’t show up. Some reciprocate and some don’t, but I know who will be there if I pick up the phone and call them in the middle of the night because I need help. That’s more valuable to me than an invitation to lunch.

I’m sort of all-over-the-place socially. Parenthood turned me into a planner with regard to my daughter’s activites but, for myself, I like to be spontaneous. Definately more of an introvert with some social anxieties but I do love off-the-cuff small talk in certain situations (when traveling, shopping or walking the dog, I can strike up a conversation with anyone) and I find all kinds of people interesting, as long as they re also interested in talking. (don’t want to impose on anyone). I also love meaningful conversation with one or a few close friends at a time. I need a lot of unstructured down time/alone time and I also need to feel a sense of belonging and sincere connection with people.

What I find difficult is that in-between stage in relationships…the ones past the small-talk stage that don’t progress to close friendship (unless it’s just a pragmatic, pleasant relationship based on common work). I really hate the situations where there’s a clear social hierarchy (as if adolescence has never ended) where social groupings have congealed and everyone seems to have been pegged into roles and expected to play those roles. I dislike pretentiousness or social dominance based on petty things.

I live in a socially stratified small town where there’s little social movement. Honestly, it feels a little like living in a time warp to me after living in many other places. People can be friendly and genuinely kind in passing, but they stick with thier groups and that’s that. If you weren’t born here it’s very hard to break into being with anyone who’s “from here” (I kid you not). Most of the people I’ve gotten to know pretty well over the nineteen years I’ve lived here (most of my daughter’s little-kid playgroup, for example) have also moved here from elsewhere, but we’re in the minority. The problem is, the ones I’ve gotten closest to have moved away. Meanwhile, nineteen years is a LONG time away from the people with which I had a lot in common in my previous life, and they have moved on. So they are more important to me than I to them.

To exacerbate this, I’ve developed some pretty serious multiple food allergies that make it impossible for me to eat safely in restaurants or in people’s homes anymore. (I react to a lot of the subtle things that make food yummy so it’s not just a matter of avoiding an ingredieant or two). I also have a moderate hearing loss (nerve damage from an overdose of the medicine cloroquine when I had cloroquine-resistant malaria while in the Peace Corps). I have hearing aids but they don’t correct everything or screen out background noise. Like another poster said, I ofen “get” what is said in large-group conversations when it’s too late to respond, or I’ve already responded inappropriately because I misheard. Hearing loss really makes a person seem more socially unskilled than they really are, and having it exacerbates social anxiety (which I might have grown out of by this time otherwise). I think the food allergies and the hearing loss make it difficult for people who don’t already know me well, to want to bother to get to know me well. I try not to take it personally…the first step in cementing a friendship is eating together and in a small town there’s not much else to do. So what I mostly do to keep from being totally isolated is doing volunteer work, dog walking, traveling and getting on this forum.

Having said all this (having both introversion/extroversion/some social anxiety) I have a lot of sympathy here for @Hoggirl and @conmama. @Hoggirl has more than demonstrated that she values and enjoys her introverted friend, so I don’t “get” how the friend can adhere to this claim that she’s afraid of bothering @Hoggirl. In fact, she has been told that it is the LACK of calls that bother @Hoggirl. While I don’t think friends should keep count (and we should accept individual quirks) friendship must be reciprocal to some degree, even if it means Hoggirl would call her friend three times or four times for every call back. I think most people want to feel appreciated, and it’s very hard to feel that a friend values you if they don’t reach out. NOT getting contacted by a friend can produce social aniety as well! For those of you who feel that @Hoggirl should just accept her friend’s introversion/anxiety, why is @Hoggirl’s desire to be called back not seen as just as legitimate a need ?

Because life’s too short to get worked up about stuff. If I want to call someone to go out, I do. I don’t keep score. If the person never calls me but enjoys going out, that’s fine.

Ouch!

I don’t see it so much as keeping score as not wanting to be a pain to someone who may not want to be called and put on the spot. My way of trying to be considerate by not imposing. Just as the person who NEVER calls may feel…