<p>My H and I worked this out before we even got married. We have pretty much always spent Thanksgiving with my family and Christmas with his. Both families live far way, so it can be taxing. Sometimes his parents come out to Boston and last year we had two of his sibs and their families.
I have some very manipulative and controlling siblings and there have been times when they’ve tried to guilt us into coming when we’ve declined for whatever reason. I believe that if you allow yourself to be manipulated then it’s YOUR problem. I don’t let these people bother or control me.</p>
<p>“but does the OP think about the OTHER families involved…seems not so much”</p>
<p>She is entitled to her feelings. she has lost her mother and the traditions of her birth family. That is a sad and painful thing. She wants to TALK to her relatives, not SHOOT them for heaven’s sake. And you know what? Why shouldn’t her feelings matter to her siblings? Should they change their entire lives? No. But if they knew she was hurting, perhaps they could reassure their sister is some way or work together to create a new tradition. I see nothing wrong with sharing one’s feelings with one’s siblings. Nothing wrong at all. Many siblings would be horrified to know that their sibling was hurting and didn’t reach out.</p>
<p>" am being harsh I guess, because if someone gets all mad and angry about people not doing what she wants them to do, gets, then even more strife is created, no one wants to feel bullied into going to someones house…they will be resentful…"</p>
<p>You’re projecting, again, CGM. No indication of that anywhere. More than anything else, it’s clear that the OP is still grieving her mother.</p>
<p>“its still expecting family members to choose and to make others choose through guilt is wrong and makes for really bad feelings, and saying that one family is more important than another”</p>
<p>Why do you do that? Make up scenarios that never appeared in the posts and then go off? you are such a warm and insightful poster most of the time. I just don’t get the need to create drama where it doesn’t exist.</p>
<p>Her mother passed away 4 years ago, and the rest of the family seems to have moved on and dealt with it while the OP still wants things the way they have always been</p>
<p>as for creating drama, from the OPs posts, SHE seems to be creating drama in her famiyl, being angry because people aren’t still doing it the way she wants them to</p>
<p>unless the OP wants to create more distance and more of a chasm, she needs to see what she is doing </p>
<p>this isn’t MY drama, its the OPs- its her family who seems to be pulling away from HER…and she needs to take a good look at why that is, don’t you think?</p>
<p>maybe the rest of the family is done grieving after 4 years, and the OP is still holding on</p>
<p>Think of me as the SIL, and maybe the OP can fathom what others may see…could the OP be trying to decide how everyone must spend their hoiidays, and it seems clear she has let them know what she wants and they have their own ideas </p>
<p>I am trying to HELP the OP, I could tell her she is right and everyone else is wrong but that changes nothing…no one is right and no one is wrong, but being angry because people want to make their own plans for the holidays doesn’t sound very loving to me</p>
<p>CGM, did you even read the OP? She said clearly that she had not said anything yet to anyone. Thus, no drama, except from you. She has feelings. They are her feelings and she is entitled to them. We all have feelings that others may not agree with, and the point of the post was clearly to ask how best to approach the issue because she HASN’T YET DONE ANYTHING. She has received advice as to how to proceed in future. There is nothing wrong with wanting to clarify holiday celebrations within a family. and I have to tell you that I take exception with your comment about her mother being dead for four years. I’ve seen posts from you that indicate that you care very much for your mother. It’s not very nice for you to judge the length of someone’s grief. The loss of a mother is a profound thing that many people grieve for the rest of their lives. There was also nothing in the posts that indicated any type of control on the part of the OP, in fact exactly the opposite, that she was somewhat marginalized. You projected that statement based on something in your own head because it didn’t come from here.</p>
<p>Just because she hasn’t used direct words does not mean people aren’t getting a “vibe” from her</p>
<p>As for the comment about the 4 years, the OP can grieve as long as she wants, it matters not, but she shouldn’t expect others to</p>
<p>If she is marginalized by her family, that is the family dynamic right now</p>
<p>My point was and has been is that the OP has no reason to be angry for relatives who choose to spend the holidays in a different way then the OP wants them to</p>
<p>And in seeing that, maybe she will accept their decisions and not make a fuss about it</p>
<p>THe OP made snipey comments about a SIL who is gasp spending the most of the day with her OWN mother, though she sees her own mother often, she is upset that same SIL is seeing a brother, and NOT the OP…shouldn’t the OP be happy for the SIL? </p>
<p>The OP wants her SIL to go to THREE homes on Christmas day!!! I jsut can’t imagine schlepping little kids three places like that</p>
<p>ANd just because feelings haven’t been verbalized in exact words, doesn’t mean people can’t sense them</p>
<p>The OP writes about how it was all about HER family for years and years= where Christmas was spent…she needs to see that other parts of the families matter and that not everyone wants to drive all over on Christmas Day, and that a way to honor her mother is taking joy that there is such a large extended family that everyone has a place to go</p>
<p>CGM. I think you made your point. I would hope though, that in any family, there would be some consideration of the feelings of others. Perhaps some discussion of compromise. It seems a bit selfish if we all just get to do what we want all the time, especially during the holidays. Let’s say I’d prefer to go to a sunny island on Christmas instead of bringing dinner to my elderly MIL Since my other SIL works on Christmas, my MIL would be alone. Is that OK too?
For me, I shared that it has been difficult since my Dad died, about 5 years ago. Since then my siblings, nieces, nephews and cousins have scattered in many directions during the holidays. Some are far, some are close. But for the most part, we don’t see them. Am I hurt? Is it sad? Yes, especially when a close by sibling chooses to spend the holiday with friends instead of us. Yes, CGM, we got your message. Everyone can do what they want, regardless of family connections. Is that what family is really about?</p>
<p>My own family situation is eerily similiar to the OP’s. It is so hard to change and arrange to met everyone’s needs without offending someone. My sibs and their kids will come to my home on Fri. to celebrate Christmas for a few hours before my bro. and family rush off to spend the next FOUR days with his wife’s family (1.5 hours away) who have a huge weekend party every year. Since our Mom died 4 years ago, my house has been the gathering spot but it is always second in importance to whatever SIL’s family has planned (they are all in great health, spend every T’giving together and visit at least once every 6 weeks). This week I got email from Bro. saying they would be coming on Fri. instead of the usual Sat before Christmas arrangement. He did not say why but it didn’t take a genius to know it was due to SIL’s family plans. When I wrote back to say I had to work and S2 was still in sch. on Fri., his reply implied that it was Fri. or nothing for them.<br>
I am so upset but there is nothing I can do short of just not seeing them at all. Christmas is the only time we get together. I can remember my Mom saying she was afraid we would never see each other after she was gone and I feel like I’m the one left holding it together here. OP, I feel yur pain and understand completely.</p>
<p>Also, my FIL is in failing health so we have had to drive there (7 hours each way) for the last 5 years. Christmas morning is spent in a cheap hotel eating the free continental breakfast with strangers. My kids have not awakened to gifts and stockings by the fire in years. It has been a huge sacrfice but Christmas is the only time when we all have enough time off to travel there together and DH keeps reminding the kids that Grandma and Grandpa won’t be around forever and they need to go see them while they can. The sad thing is that they live so far away they’ve never had any real relationship with my kids. They are caught up in their own declining lives/health and really have very little say to my kids other than “how are you?” They really don’t know them at all and don’t seem to care to (never call on the phone , ever ,but always complain that no one calls or visits enough). I feel so sad so we have to spend Christmas this way. </p>
<p>It was such a happy time when the kids were little but now it’s just a myriad of complicated plans. I worry about my kids having no real Christmas tradtion anymore but DH feels compelled to make the trip. I’m exhausted just thinking about it and I hate feeling this way.</p>
<p>“JJust because she hasn’t used direct words does not mean people aren’t getting a “vibe” from her”</p>
<p>Getting vibes? That sounds awfully like mind reading to me. Most people don’t try to read others’ minds or to project emotions onto them. Most people actually listen to what is said to them. I’ve actually seen you vent before. Does that mean that we get to attack you for venting here and presume to read your mind?</p>
<p>“THe OP made snipey comments about a SIL who is gasp spending the most of the day with her OWN mother, though she sees her own mother often, she is upset that same SIL is seeing a brother, and NOT the OP…shouldn’t the OP be happy for the SIL?”</p>
<p>I hope you never made snipey comments here about anyone you know in your own life.</p>
<p>I am so upset but there is nothing I can do short of just not seeing them at all. Christmas is the only time we get together. I can remember my Mom saying she was afraid we would never see each other after she was gone and I feel like I’m the one left holding it together here. OP, I feel yur pain and understand completely."</p>
<p>I understand completely, too. I felt sad, hurt, disappointed and I allowed myself those feelings WITHOUT guilt. And then I made new plans and traditions for my family including my mother. I can’t comrehend the attacks on feelings that are perfectly normal. EVERYONE has feelings, some that aren’t happy and perfect. It’s a person’s actions that count.</p>
<p>“It was such a happy time when the kids were little but now it’s just a myriad of complicated plans. I worry about my kids having no real Christmas tradtion anymore but DH feels compelled to make the trip. I’m exhausted just thinking about it and I hate feeling this way.”</p>
<p>Why should you hate feeling that way when your situation, frankly, sucks. Kudos to you for making the best of it, but don’t make yourself feel worse by invalidating your own feelings. You don’t have to pretend to yourself. Come back here and vent if you need to. Here’s what I say to me “this is not a good situation, I don’t like it and I feel ____, but for reasons that matter to me, I choose to accept this.” Doesn’t mean you have to pretend to be gleeful.</p>
<p>Seems like one of the common threads here is a SIL (or perhaps DIL) giving priority to their side of the family. In my experience, it’s the female who make the social plans in the family - so those of us with sons and brothers end up falling short many times. Oh well…I have an only, a son…so I guess I should get prepared. I don’t see my brother much either…</p>
<p>Toneranger, you have hit on the right dynamic for our family. My brother, who never missed a Thanksgiving or Christmas at our house for years, has only stopped by once in the past 15 years since he got married. He lives 45 minutes away. My sister has come out from California numerous times and he still refuses to stop by. (His wife hates us.) Our mother, who is still healthy, drives 6 hours and is here every Thanksgiving and every other Christmas, going to sister in California on the alternate years. We have spent our alternate years going to California as well, taking a vacation, or just being with the nuclear family (as will do this year). We went to H’s family in Wisconsin only one year and changed that to a fourth of July tradition. Just too cold! I am glad we don’t do the same thing every year as it allows us to try out different ideas on the alternate years. As my mother ages, we may start going to her house, but right now she seems to love to travel.</p>
<p>A question for you folks…in our families, there are a total of 10 offspring and all but one are married too. We have MANY families to consider when making holiday events. Take just my family…there are four of us. Three are married…that creates 4 different families who want to share or continue traditions. Then add DH’s family…six sibs all married…add the inlaws of all of those sibs and you can see the complication. It would take something much more complex than an Excel data base to figure out which grandparent should have all the sibs (also keep in mind that those inlaws of the sibs ALSO have inlaws and they want to try to be together too). If DH’s family wanted to get his six kids together…they would also have to assume that none of the wife/husband’s families had similar plans. Or that they could somehow keep track of which year ALL of the sibs of one family got the priority designation. As much as I would like to spend the holiday with my dad, if I did this, there would be years when either my inlaws would be alone, or we would be there with my dad alone (because my sibs were with THEIR inlaws). This post was complicated…the logistics of the planning is even moreso. My elderly parents and my husbands have come to enjoy rotating amongst their kids, and enjoying two things…the kids’ traditions AND not having a mob to prepare for at their own home. In fact, my MIL actually said that she was happy to see how her kids celebrated these traditions. </p>
<p>Perhaps this doesn’t work for everyone…and I see that it clearly doesn’t from the variety of opinions stated here. But for some, the changing of the family tradition is just as meaningful as continuing an old one.</p>
<p>Thumper, it seems as if there is communication among the members of your family. Correct me if I’m wrong on that. But it seemed as if the OP was concerned because people weren’t communicating as to who was doing what and just going off and doing. I guess I see that as the distinction. Also, with such a large family, someone is bound to be able to see the parents every year, right? In my family, which is smaller, if I don’t then no one will. If your family had always done things a certain way and no one spoke about it but just changed, wouldn’t you feel a little bad? Any tradition is perfect as long as no one is marginalized or hurt or ignored. If those things were to happen, the person at issue would have the right to talk to the relatives.</p>
<p>One reason it worked for so many years is that even though we are 6 kids 3 of us married into families that don’t celebrate Christmas. Add in 2 divorced siblings(both have no children). So the SIL in question is the only one who has family that celebrates Christmas. We also all live in the same state though at 2 ends with us in the middle with good weather so travel is easy. </p>
<p>Citygirlsmom- you are entitled to your opinion. You don’t know me. I am sending no vibes. I see most of my siblings throughout the year. One just spent 5 days at my house. I spent time this fall traveling with my female siblings. We all get along. No strong overbearing personalities. I even like the SIL. You are also making judgements not based on the facts. I never said she needed to go to 3 houses. What I do feel that since some of us are traveling to spend Christmas in that area they might make plans to give us more then an hour of their time. The brother’s house they will stop by at is the house the rest of us will be at. She is not seeing my brother and not us. Nor am I trying to make a shrine to my Mom. I don’t find Christmas sad without her. As someone else stated their parent worried that the siblings would not get together after they were gone. My Mom felt the same way. My parents were divorced. My Mom had my Dad (who never remarried) to her house for Christmas every year. She knew it was important to both of them to spend Christmas with their children and grandchildren. My Step-dad’s kids came as well. </p>
<p>I appreciate all of you sharing. I send my thoughts to those of you experiencing similar issues.<br>
I am willing to change and we might have reached a time where we need to create a new tradition.</p>
<p>And the SIL kids are of the age that they can easily sit 15 minutes in the car to visit with family. They are all past the age of believing in Santa. They also are the only one’s with kids who have always had the opportunity to wake up in their own beds on Christmas morning.</p>
<p>If I ever doubted my reasoning to celebrate the holidays away from the kids grandparents for 20 years, I got a reminder today.</p>
<p>D was attending a soccer game across the street from her grandparents house-, she doesn’t see them very often, perhaps once a year- we’ve learned over the years not to expect them to show up at events or to visit or invite us over. ( they have one other grandchild a little younger than my oldest)
So she asked if she could walk over to her grandparents, and her dad could pick her up, ( and pick up his tool box he left at the same time)
They told her, that she couldn’t , because they had her aunts & her cousin over to bake cookies and they wouldn’t be able to visit.</p>
<p>She did find another ride home, but I felt bad for her, she had asked to see them & they all but slammed the door in her face.
Aren’t relatives great? no wonder we go away.</p>
<p>omg, ek</p>
<p>That just takes the cake–or the cookies. I think you’ve mentioned narcissism and now I see why. That is just painful and toxic.</p>
<p>Does anyone else ever think we have wrapped so much emotion and family angst and commercialism around these holiday times that it’s gotten a little out of control? Not that that’s a new idea, but if we were really celebrating the birth of Jesus, probably we’d be doing things differently.</p>
<p>This thread is a great opportunity to vent but also, as the OP just said, for people who are not enjoying current holiday traditions maybe this could be an opportunity to think about making some changes.</p>