Ferguson Part Deux - No charges to be filed!

<p>Oh my, voter fraud doesn’t exist? That is ridiculous. Though the vast majority of fraud exists from people filling out absentee ballots for others. Rigged voting machines are another one.</p>

<p>“Have you been really, really poor? Have you been on assistance? Had to ration money amongst food and rent and gas and heat and medications? Had to ration time between multiple part-time, no-benefits, utterly unforgiving jobs?”</p>

<p>Why yes, except for the part about being on assistance. And the last thing I had time for or was even thinking about, was voting. I had no idea whom was on the ballot, or when there was an election. And I suspect that if you are on assistance and have to pick up medications, you have some identification methods.</p>

<p>But this is awfully off topic.</p>

<p>“Oh my, voter fraud doesn’t exist? That is ridiculous. Though the vast majority of fraud exists from people filling out absentee ballots for others. Rigged voting machines are another one.”</p>

<p>Can you cite proof where these rigged voting machines have been found? </p>

<p>Ditto for the filling out of absentee ballots from someone who is not the voter. </p>

<p>TYIA. </p>

<p>How about someone starts a voter fraud thread?</p>

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<p>It also has to do with the COSTS of getting IDs and supporting documents (replacement birth certificates, etc.). Poor people can’t just drop $29 or whatever to order a birth certificate and more for the ID.</p>

<p>Also, in my state DMV hours have become more and more limited in some areas. Of 92 DMV locations, 49 operate two days per week. Four offices are only open for six days each year and one is open for just three days a year. </p>

<p>For people with limited availability of transportation, along with the aforementioned inflexibility of their schedules, these factors can represent huge obstacles.</p>

<p>Getting back on topic, what do people think about the conclusions in post #1072?</p>

<p>So interesting. There are many people who cannot imagine why a segment of our society has trouble getting ID which satisfies the laws of certain states, despite what the lawmakers have admitted saying about those laws, and what the evidence is that has caused so many courts to overturn all or part of many of these laws. </p>

<p>Yet their imagination goes into overdrive when it comes to voter fraud, despite the fact there is little to no evidence of more than the smallest handful of such cases. </p>

<p>It’s nice that so many people show such mental flexibility. </p>

<p>Post 1072? I think the whole grand jury process was ill-used, and the misleading citations of the law were a part of that.</p>

<p>“Yet their imagination goes into overdrive when it comes to voter fraud, despite the fact there is little to no evidence of more than the smallest handful of such cases.”</p>

<p>What I find so absurd about the allegations of voter fraud is that we have something like the lowest rate of participation among eligible voters of any country - and people think those not eligible to vote are dying to vote so badly they will commit voter fraud. Just ridiculous. </p>

<p>I wonder how we would even assess a statistic like the amount of voter fraud. In general, I wish people would ask themselves how the statistics they cite in discussion were calculated and if there is any way to arrive at such statistics. 90% of statistics are completely fabricated.</p>

<p>It is true that we have had whole presidential elections stolen on the basis of voter fraud though (see Nixon-JFK election.)</p>

<p>"Can you cite proof where these rigged voting machines have been found?</p>

<p>Ditto for the filling out of absentee ballots from someone who is not the voter"</p>

<p>You can’t possibly think that people don’t fill out absentee ballots for people who are deceased or out of town. No one is that naïve. There are all sorts of ways to commit voter fraud.</p>

<p><a href=“Electoral fraud - Wikipedia”>Electoral fraud - Wikipedia;

<p>An example of an election that was turned over because of fraudulent absentee balloting</p>

<p>"William G. Stinson (born circa 1945)[2] is a former Democratic member of the Pennsylvania State Senate. He was elected to represent the 2nd senatorial district in the Pennsylvania Senate in a 1993 special election.</p>

<p>However, Federal District Judge Clarence C. Newcomer declared him the loser of that election after finding that Stinson had engaged in election fraud and ordered Stinson’s Republican opponent, Bruce S. Marks, be seated in his stead. The latter took office on April 28, 1994</p>

<p>The fraud was conducted using absentee ballots, often in the names of deceased people. The decision was notable because it shifted control of the state Senate from the Democratic party to the Republican party. the first time such an event had occurred at the order of a federal judge"
<a href=“William G. Stinson - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Stinson&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Rigged voting machines:</p>

<p>"Tampering with electronic voting machines</p>

<p>All voting systems face threats of some form of electoral fraud. The types of threats that affect voting machines can vary from other forms of voting systems, some threats may be prevented and others introduced. “Threat Analyses & Papers”. National Institute of Standards and Technology. October 7, 2005. Retrieved 5 March 2011.</p>

<p>Some forms of electoral fraud specific to electronic voting machines are listed below. Recent research at Argonne National Laboratories demonstrates that if a malicious actor is able to gain physical access to a voting machine, it can be a simple process to manipulate certain electronic voting machines, such as the Diebold Accuvote TS, by inserting inexpensive, readily available electronic components inside the machine.
Tampering with the software of a voting machine to add malicious code altering vote totals or favor any candidate. Multiple groups have demonstrated this possibility.
Private companies manufacture these machines. Many companies will not allow public access or review of the machines source code, claiming fear of exposing trade secrets.</p>

<p>Tampering with the hardware of the voting machine to alter vote totals or favor any candidate. Some of these machines require a smartcard to activate the machine and vote. However, a fraudulent smart card could attempt to gain access to vote multiple times.</p>

<p>Abusing the administrative access to the machine by election officials might also allow individuals to vote multiple times.
Election results that are sent directly over the internet from a county count center to the state count center can be vulnerable to a man-in-the-middle attack, where they are diverted to an intermediate web site where the man in the middle flips the votes in favor of a certain candidate and then immediately forwards them on to the state count center. All votes sent over the internet violate chain of custody and hence should be avoided by driving or flying memory cards in locked metal containers from county count centers to the state count center. For purposes of getting quick preliminary state wide results on election night, encrypted votes can be sent over the internet, but final official results should be tabulated the next day only after the actual memory cards arrive in secure metal containers and are counted."</p>

<p>Speaking of statistics, where are all the flu shot people to tell us that we are illogical for worrying about police brutality because we are more likely to be killed by the flu?</p>

<p>As a coda to the ebola discussion and especially for our flu shot friends, I offer the following: <a href=“Flu vaccine may not work as well this year, CDC says - The Boston Globe”>Flu vaccine may not work as well this year, CDC says - The Boston Globe;

<p>“You can’t possibly think that people don’t fill out absentee ballots for people who are deceased or out of town. No one is that naïve. There are all sorts of ways to commit voter fraud.”</p>

<p>Yes, I can believe it - given the lack of interest in voting in this country. </p>

<p>Is there any proof that voting machine have been found to be tampered with. Just because it is possible does not mean it has or is happening. </p>

<p>Kudo’s for coming up with one case of fraud by absentee ballot but one case does not mean it is widespread. Where are the statistics that prove this is an ongoing concern? </p>

<p><a href=“Voter Fraud Is Rare, but Myth Is Widespread - The New York Times”>http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/upshot/vote-fraud-is-rare-but-myth-is-widespread.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“It is true that we have had whole presidential elections stolen on the basis of voter fraud though (see Nixon-JFK election.)”</p>

<p>No, it is not true. </p>

<p><a href=“Was Nixon Robbed?”>http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2000/10/was_nixon_robbed.2.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

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Ha ha!</p>

<p>Well . . . we have now demonstrated that people see things and interpret the world very differently based on their own personal experience and the general circumstances in which they live. So when people who I rub elbows with say that the police don’t just shoot people they are speaking out of their own personal experience of the world. </p>

<p>@emilybee, from your own article:</p>

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<p>Illinois likely would have been won by Nixon if not for the voter fraud perpetrated by Daley cronies. I believe that was close enough to swing the election to Nixon.</p>

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Mathematically, it wasn’t. JFK won 303-219 in the electoral college, and IL had 27 electoral votes - it would have been 276-246 even if you assume that Hersh was correct… for which there is no evidence.</p>

<p>from the article:</p>

<p>“The results of it (all the recounts) all were meager.”</p>

<p>Also from the article:</p>

<p>“Completed Dec. 9, the recount of 863 precincts showed that the original tally had undercounted Nixon’s (and Adamowski’s) votes, but only by 943, far from the 4,500 needed to alter the results. In fact, in 40 percent of the rechecked precincts, Nixon’s vote was overcounted”</p>

<p>“Displeased, the Republicans took the case to federal court, only to have a judge dismiss the suits. Still undeterred, they turned to the State Board of Elections, which was composed of four Republicans, including the governor, and one Democrat. Yet the state board, too, unanimously rejected the petition, citing the GOP’s failure to provide even a single affidavit on its behalf.”</p>

<p>I like to deal in facts - not speculation or innuendo. </p>

<p>If you have any facts which prove there was voter fraud on the scale needed to have given Nixon the election feel free to cite them. </p>

<p>Okay, just got back to the thread after being indisposed for much of the day.</p>

<p>May I ask what voter fraud/voter ID laws have to do with the fact that Mr. Wilson was not indicted for the murder of Mr. Brown?!</p>

<p>^Saintfan set up a detour on post #1058 and we all took it.</p>