<p>Marine Corps - sending him to where they have tough love from which you learn to love your country and serve your fellow Marines.</p>
<p>Olymom, my son would definitely go for the explosives degree. Great post, BTW.</p>
<p>I have one of each at my house: superstar student and superstar personality. They look toward each other and see that their sibling has what they don’t. </p>
<p>Super- personality ( and fireworks fan) is heading off to college this fall and I am hoping for the best. He is going to have to change his ways to be successful, but he does have the ability. I could have him attend the CC where I work for free, but I need for him to go away and make it on his own. It is a struggle and it is coming fast.</p>
<p>If this boy can program, he can get a job. It’s the one bright spot in the economy right now. If he doesn’t know how enough about programming, very good courses are offered for free through Udacity. In my opinion, even good students with high grades who can program should probably take a gap year or two between high school and college to mature and focus their interests (and earn some money for college). Just a thought.</p>
<p>
Her son got 200+ on the PSATs as a sophomore - he’s probably as smart as he thinks he is. I think the suggestion of a school that doesn’t require a lot of gen ed/distribution requirements is a good idea. My Carnegie Mellon kid thanks to his 5’s on APs only had to take one English course, 1 World History course and 1 other social science course. All his other courses were math, physics (his minor) or comp sci.</p>
<p>From my small sample group in my life, it seems like more than half of the computer science type of kids were not the best students. I know a good programmer that just graduated high school; he had flunked out of his previous school. However, he can program. I am not sure about very well, but he can do it pretty well. However, in my same graduating group, one was about as good as the other guy, but he’s going to MIT in the fall. Quite a difference. I was a straight B/C student in high school. I will be going to New Mexico Tech. I tested on the same caliber as the MIT guy; I also programmed better than him. What was different about him? His drive. I simply lacked the drive. The drive is important. I was the type of person that if I say I had a 4.4 GPA, no one would even doubt a bit. </p>
<p>What I recommend you to do do is nothing. Do not do anything. Well, I am going to be a freshman in college; you don’t even have to listen to me. Perhaps, I am different. I like to be independent; I don’t like my parents telling me to do stuff. I also am not afraid to go out and learn though. Let’s hope your kid has that temperament.</p>
<p>I used to be a “smart” middling acheiver in school. At work, I woke up to the shocking reality that the people who succeed/advance are not the smart people, but the people who work hard, have persistance, (and have networks, but this does not relate here).</p>
<p>Thus, the OP should reinforce to the kid that it’s about the level of work, effort, perservance etc and not at all related to smarts, etc. A directed effort should be made to tell him that his “smartness” doesn’t really matter, many others are smart, dime a dozen. OP would rather hire a hard worker than a “smart” lazy person any day. </p>
<p>I would do either community college or state school. Might also get him checked for ADHD or “executive functioning” evaluation. Consider possible educational therapies to teach him to be organized. Lastly, it just may be maturity level which may come much later. I’m sure that he will get there some day. </p>
<p>As he matures or works harder, he could always transfer to another school. And if he is already a hard worker in computer programming (and you can vet this) then you may be already there.</p>
<p>P.S. I want Olymom for my mom!</p>
<p>OP’s son sounds like me 2 years ago. Honestly, if I put in the effort to be a 4.0 student in high school, I would have been burnt out before getting to college. I know many people in this situation. If he truly is intelligent, he will find his way in college, learning the things he wants to learn, working towards becoming something rather than having nothing to show for your effort in HS. </p>
<p>I went from a 2.9 in high school to a 3.8 at a CC (went straight there, didn’t even apply to a uni), to TAGging into a good uni. My parents had NO part in my decision. I found my own way, and I’m thankful for that.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to be insensitive to your situation, but have you ever ask your son what he really wants in life?
I’m like you, a mother and who can only do so much for our child, our only wish is for them to succeed and have the best in life, but kids don’t realised that, they will never understand that unless they become parents themselves.
but looking at myself in the mirror, it’s telling me that I should back-off and allow him to make his own decisions, so before you even start thinking of how much money you’re going to spend for his college of which you think he’s not even deserving, why don’t you sit down with him and ask him what he really plans to do with his life after high school?</p>
<p>On my side of the story, my child was lazy and only studies the last minute of exams and a procastinator. As far as I can remember the teachers comments would always be “you could do better than that”, and it’s so frustrating.
Soon he’ll start his freshman in the Fall and I’m still not at eased, but each time I say something like “there’s no dropping of subjects 'coz we’re paying for every unit subject” blah, blah, blah, then he says “Mama, why don’t you have faith in me?”, so then I ask mysef, do I put too much pressure on my child? I think I am!
But can you blame me? As much as I don’t blame you either!
…just my opinion! </p>
<p>This is just my opinion, please don’t take any offence, I know “it’s easier said than done!”</p>
<p>Olymom-I know an explosives expert from New Mexico Tech. Funny you should mention that.</p>
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<p>I’m sorry, I haven’t read the whole thread, but I 100% agree with trying the ACTs. I scored just “pretty well” on the SATs when I took it, but with the ACTs I scored in the 99th percentile. It’s really beneficial to try both.</p>
<p>I have to say that I was a slacker in high school. I was definitely capable of getting straight A’s every year, but I just didn’t want to. Without any studying I could pull off B’s in every course which was enough to please my parents. Once I got to my junior year, I realized that colleges wanted to see great grades so I did get the straight A’s, but that was just barely enough to pull my gpa up to a 3.6. I did get into some realllly great colleges, but I ended up choosing my safety (no idea why). Anyway, I think it actually did benefit me to go to a school with a little more “real world” mixed in instead of the top 30 school I got into which was full of students who were smart and they knew it; whose smarts had carried them all the way there and the name of the school is all they’ll need to get a job. Yeah, it’s easier once you get in, but I honestly think I’m learning a lot more about real smarts and surviving in the real world by interacting with people from all sorts of different academic backgrounds.</p>
<p>As far as paying, I would let your son go to a “real” college and not a cc but tell him you’ll pay as long as he’s keeping his grades up. It doesn’t sound like he’s reaching into the level where all the schools are like the top 30 school I described, but if he is I would steer him away. He needs more of a taste of the real world than he would be getting there. (He needs a slap in the face to realize it will take him more than smarts to succeed.)</p>
<p>That was a great post by Olymom. Still, I’d like to pull one sentence from context:</p>
<p>“That was because a boring class did not command his respect, so he would make no effort.”</p>
<p>There’s an old wheeze that 80% of success in life is just showing up. Those who elect not to show up had better be amazing at the other 20%.</p>
<p>The hardest classes are the ones you have no interest in.</p>
<p>I skated through high school to say the least… I failed (F) every class one quarter.</p>
<p>I was also in ‘gifted’ programs and always on the principal’s honor roll before that. If he says he’s so smart & can skate through everything then he might… Actually be telling the truth. I knew high school transcripts would never be looked at again if I did my first two years at a community college to save money, then I transferred to one of the top ranked public universities in the US. Since I knew this all along, I barely bothered with high school. I know I’m violating some ‘academic spirit’ dogma here but I’m just sharing my similar situation and happy ending.</p>
<p>Community college is a great option for him. You can see if he’s serious without going into lifelong debt.</p>
<p>“The hardest classes are the ones you have no interest in.”</p>
<p>So true. I have straight As in all of my “hard” classes and a W/0 in a sociology class where we sat in a circle talking about our feelings. I think this is the same reason some people who just drift off and stop caring in high school can reawaken after enrolling in college and actually getting to focus on something relevant to them.</p>
<p>Hi All. Thanks for the kind comments. Please know my background is as a wildlife biologist – I acquired a disability and spent my son’s teen years at home, so have had the opportunity to observe and test a lot of theories. In a nutshell, I will post my findings. </p>
<p>1) “Should” does not work well in managing creatures. Every elephant in every zoo in the world may love carrots – but if the elephant you are feeding is tossing carrots out onto the ground, quit lecturing and quit buying carrots. See where you get with apples. </p>
<p>2) High school is far more stressful than 30 years ago. Not only are their cell phone texts and massive other technology, the economy stinks and college costs are brutal. High school is much harder to navigate and the options are harder to see (but do exist).</p>
<p>3) Young males are typically deep pools, that include worry, despair, guilt, confusion or exhilaration on sexual/social affairs and a hunger for friendship and food. All of this is disguised by a great deal of hair, grunts, shrugs and the ongoing fall back response of “Idonnaknow.” All of this can come with a giant frosting layer of optimism. </p>
<p>4) Grounding a teen does not lead to desired outcomes. Not does long term bribery ("Get an A this term in chem and . . . ). What does work is a) cleaning the bathroom as a punishment and b) immediate rewards. Believe me I have tested the above six ways from Sunday.<br>
If a kid screws up, I now say “I am furious. I am dismayed. I can’t believe you did this. I am going to go weed (or go to the store) and I want you to go clean the upstairs toilet. I want that done before I get back.” and I stomp off. (Note: I must leave. If I stay, I don’t get the desired outcome). The kid stomps off and cleans. I stomp off and come back later. We agree to start over.<br>
This may seem rather silly – particularly if a large oops or meanness has occurred, but it has basis in dog training: make corrections brief, then show the correct path forward.
Same with bribery. You can’t tell Fido that you’ll give him a big steak bone in six months if he’ll quit chewing the rug. So I’ll say “I’ll do your dinner dishes if you’ll use the next fifteen minutes to do that lab report” – a small goodie from me for a smallish effort on his part and we make progress. </p>
<p>5) Young males are keenly aware of social dominance aspects – be it hair on the chest or keys to a car. Therefore it is never wise to discuss heavy concerns while sitting across from one another. In that situation, the older being is going to be socially dominant and you will not get good insights. Far, far better is to go for a walk together. It engages the full body and you are now side by side, facing the same direction. This is precisely how an adult wolf teaches a young wolf to hunt. Mistakes are expected. But, side by side, they move onward until successful. </p>
<p>6) Teens are nervous about parent/teacher communication. It is still important to make that pathway open. I routinely introduced myself to high school teachers via email that went something like “I’m Maverick’s mother. We are looking forward to a great term. Please don’t hesitate to let me know if you have any concerns about Maverick.” A couple of times I got feedback that kept young Maverick from careening into a ditch – and another time a great teacher worked with us to get young Maverick out of a hole. </p>
<p>7) Many young males are emotionally honest. They see butt kissers and grade prostitutes (sorry if that sounds strong, but these characters exist) and our young male rebels against the notion of being such a sordid sort. One has to find a way to be true to one’s soul and still manage to navigate the system successfully (which may mean dropping the AP course run by the teacher who insists on butt kissing). </p>
<p>8) Sociopaths exist and thrive in public school systems – as staff and as fellow classmates. Being upfront about this is a great relief to offspring. </p>
<p>9) We remember the last thing spoken. So try not to say “I love you but your music makes me nuts.” Work to say “I hate that music, but I love you.”</p>
<p>10) There is a horrific deficit of greenery in today’s lives. I am forever grateful to the camp in our area that was a refuge for our sons – first as campers, then as counselors-in-training and finally as camp counselors. Being out in nature feeds the soul and makes so much of the rest of the rat race bearable and worthwhile. Whenever my guys are troubled, we work to see if we can’t get them on a hike or on a campout. Prison wardens know that prison gardens reduce depression and aggression. </p>
<p>Whew, enough pontificating – I just hope some students and parents out there will find some helpful bit from this to navigate their own paths forward well. Try this for a two minute Friday break:</p>
<p>[What</a> A Wonderful World With David Attenborough – BBC One [FULL HD] - YouTube](<a href=“YouTube”>YouTube)</p>
<p>Good luck Mom of Eight.</p>
<p>OP, I would make sure that it was your DS that made the effort to research the colleges, investigate the programs and find a solution within your financial boundaries and with full knowledge of the conditions of your financial support. If he truly wants it, then let him prove it by directing this process. It doesn’t have to be adversarial, but make it clear taht you are supportive as long as he finds a place that will make him happy and where he will be able to meet those objectives that you put forward (ex. 2.5 GPA, no failed grades, no grade below X in major, etc). I think the posts have been interesting, because it is hard to determine if this is a gifted, frustrated kid, or an unmotivated, smart slacker who needs to learn that actions have consequences. </p>
<p>Has he shown an interest in looking for schools?</p>
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<p>At Cajun State Computer Science was full of such kids. Low HS and college GPA, super smart, spending hours on end programming and the like. Most were there before I came in and were there when I graduated, requiring 6+ years to finish. They’re all successful coders now, as am I, but required some serious attitude adjustment in order to graduate…</p>
<p>I want Olymom as my mom…</p>
<p>I know people who got into UC Irvine and UCSD with scores like that; heck he even got weightlisted my MIT! Sure, he had a higher GPA (4.0 unweighted), but that isn’t to say that he won’t get into his other choices. If it was the first time he took the SAT than it probably has something more to do with nerves, etc. Try getting him to take the ACT if he really is a naturally smart student. I also know a lot of people who are naturally driven, but ended up with teachers that, well, held grudges and because of that lowered their GPAs; I guess what I’m saying is that you are judging him on broken systems of measurement. I think what you need to ask your self is; Is he truly smart? Does he want to go to college bad enough to strive for a 4.0 at a community college? I know a lot of people who got into as good schools as UC Berkeley from community colleges in the bay area, they saved A LOT of money, and were able to pay off their debt in a matter of years, not decades. There can be many benefits of sending your child to community college if they truly need to ameleorate their lousy high school record. Although for a GPA like that, 600s on the SAT… which I’m assuming that’s per section so 1800 ish is very good and far above the national average (1550) don’t get misled by the overachieving nature of College Confidential! Some of the smartest students in my grade, including myself (4.7 GPA and 2200 SATs) are planning on going to community college for the first two years. The truth is, there are many good programs for transfer at community colleges (especially in california, I don’t know about other states) to UCs even including UCLA and UC Berkeley although at a more lenient rate.</p>
<p>My best advice would probably to get him to take community college classes now! So he can cop on to what is ahead, and maybe even prepare for it. He can always do it P/NP or simply crashing if you don’t think he is fully prepared to get an A in it. That way he can test the waters to see whether he is actually capable of transfering to a university. If he isn’t there are many many, cheap colleges.</p>