<p>Golani–I can see you feel very strongly about this and nothing anyone can say will change your mind. </p>
<p>I do object, however, to your phrase “the value of having your own children.” Anyone who is adopted, or who has adopted a child or even used donor eggs or sperm would be very offended by that. All children should be equally loved, regardless of how they came into the world or into a family.</p>
<p>Maybe you are right…I misphrased myself. I understand that all children should be equally loved, but even adopting a child will be slightly different than giving birth to it yourself. There will be more put into the birth then simply signing papers and picking up a 5 yr old from some building. Ofcourse he will be loved and should be loved, but what I meant by that is only a man and a woman can physically create their own child.</p>
<p>You didn’t answer my question. You stepped around it by saying that homosexuality was against Jewish doctrine and nothing more.</p>
<p>Explain to me how a gay parade makes a holy city less holy.</p>
<p>“simply signing papers and picking up a 5 yr old from some building.” </p>
<p>You make it sound so easy. Like they could give the kid back if it didn’t work out. Do you REALIZE the hoops adoptive parents have to go through? The years of waiting, fees paid, hopes dashed? Unless, of course, you are Madonna.</p>
<p>You seem very young and uninformed. You need to learn wisdom as well as tolerance.</p>
<p>Only Orthodox Judaism does not accept homosexuality. Conservative and Reform temples welcome gay worshippers, so Golani is wrong. </p>
<p>It’s only fundamentalists of any religion who have their panties all in a twist about gay people.</p>
<p>I do not think that a truly “Holy” place can be made less holy because of a parade.</p>
<p>And those jews with whom I am most familiar and for whom I hold utmost respect, would display love and compassion to these people…not disdain.</p>
<p>Could you tell me why that gay pride parade HAS to be held in Jerusalem, then, if it so obviously upsets a sizable portion of its citizens? Did anyone have an answer as to why it couldn’t be held in Tel Aviv instead?</p>
<p>Can you tell me why there are two separate standards of behavior involved here, i.e. AM’s “fundamentalists” must be tolerant of the gay parade, but the gay community is not called upon to be tolerant of observant families? </p>
<p>Why does one group of people deserve “love and compassion” and not the other?</p>
<p>I am confused as to how that works.</p>
<p>P.S. I’d love to hear how AM feels about people who follow Catholicism–the religion that officially declares homosexuality an “intrinsic disorder.” Is it possible to loathe a billion people?</p>
<p>I don’t loathe anyone personally for their beliefs, HH, so nah, I don’t waste my time loathing a billion people. I do loathe hypocrisy though.</p>
<p>How could the gay community be tolerant of observant families? By hiding? Pretending? Allowing a clergy member to “convert” them to heterosexuality? Not being so “out there”?</p>
<p>Please clarify.</p>
<p>Funny, I just don’t loathe hypocrisy all that much. If I did, there would not be one human on earth (except you, AM) that I could admire. ;)</p>
<p>By moving the parade to another city, such as Tel Aviv, as golani suggested long ago. </p>
<p>What is so important about these parades, to start with? How about gay week in Disneyworld? Is that not planned to ruffle some feathers intentionally? I think the gay activist mind-set is off-putting. If gays think they are winning friends with these tactics, they are wrong. But, hey, I’m all for the backlash since I’m against gay marriage anyway. :)</p>
<p>Well, what would be the point of a march for equal rights if it didn’t ruffle a few feathers? They could march in the desert but that wouldn’t accomplish anything.</p>
<p>People said the same things about the civil rights sit-ins and marches in the 60s. “They’re being too aggressive, the time isn’t right, etc. etc.”</p>
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<p>Could you tell me why the civl rights marches HAVE to be from Selma to Montgomery, if they so obvously upset a large porton of the citzens? Did anyone have an answer as to why it couldn’t be in Harlem instead?</p>
<p>Can you tell me why there are two separate standards of behavior involved here, i.e.“racists” must be tolerant of the black parade, but the black community is not called upon to be tolerant of bigot families?</p>
<p>In case anyone didn’t get it–pyroclastic is employing <em>sarcasm</em></p>
<p>I don’t think you’d like the parade in Tel Aviv either, truth be told, HH. You too, Golani. That’s just a bit of disingenuity.</p>
<p>I like parades wherever they occur! ;)</p>
<p>I think I was explained it best during of all things, an episode of Dawson’s Creek that sticks with me until this day. It goes along the lines of this…</p>
<p>God put all types of people on this earth, it’s our job to give those who aren’t loved as much more love. If they don’t conform to our religious beliefs (such as a Christian homosexual), it’s not our job to judge. Our job is to give that person love and support regardless of what they do with their lives so they can live their life in peace. God will be the ultimate judge.</p>
<p>Regardless of what you think is right or wrong or wheter they are belittling a holy place. Kill them with kindness, if you are a true believer in your beliefs (whatever they may be), you will know that God will be the ultimate judge. </p>
<p>Of course, this doesn’t apply to atheists, but it can be applied to most mainstream religions.</p>
<p>A mind reader, too, AM? You really are quite the woman! 
The gay rights movement is not analogous to the black civil rights movement–nice try, though, and I do understand that it is a very USEFUL and convincing argument for many people.</p>
<p>Why isn’t it analogous?</p>
<p>HH, your posts do not lead any credence whatsoever to a claim that a gay parade in any city, anywhere, would be acceptable to you and the moral police. </p>
<p>To pretend that it’s “Ok in Tel Aviv but not in Jeruselum” is just plain silly.</p>
<p>That much of a mind reader I am. ;)</p>
<p>Actually I suggested numerous times for the parade to be moved to Tel Aviv, so AM, I am not sure from what you get the impression that I wold be against a parade in Tel Aviv.</p>
<p>Also, i dont want toget into a theological discussion, but just to clarify for some people, there is no such thing as reform conservative or orthodox Judaism as a relgion. There is plain and simple Judaism. Then there are those who are more or less observant of the laws than others.</p>
<p>Bottom line is, no one is stopping gays from having their parades in general. People are just offended that it is occuring Jerusalem. You cannot again compare cities like Montgomery and Selma to J’lem they have different types of residents, different histories, different cultures, different everything.</p>
<p>Also please note that the black rights movement was about race, the gay movement is about a behavior and a lifestyle. That is why it isnt analogous. </p>
<p>But regardless I am asking the gay community to be sensitive and tolerant and open minded towards the religious, towards the tranditionalists, towards people with different values. No one is stopping gays from being gay, people are asking that they dont flaunt their values in a holy city to a certain type of people. Tel Aviv is a bigger city, it has more money, it has more people, it is the financial capital of Israel. If gays really wanted this parade to get their point accros, they woudl do it there, but in J’lem they have a second motive- whcih is to **** the religious off</p>
<p>The Rabbis of the Conservative and Reform movements have written extensively on the biblical interpretation of homosexuality, and have without question, welcomed gay people into their congregations. </p>
<p>Sorry, Golani, you did say that about Tel Aviv, but the rest of your many posts on homosexuality also belie any sort of acceptance of gay people, much less their parades, whatsoever.</p>
<p>(on edit: typo)</p>