<p>this culture puts womens sexuality- indeed the sexuality of girls in nearly every context- even if the two women are “straight” it is a highly sexually charged atmosphere.
I see thong underwear for young girls being sold, I remember being asked as a young girl if I had a boyfriend, being asked why my 7 year old daughter ( by her grandfather) had a one piece bathing suit rather than a bikini like her 4 year old cousin and much being made about using female bodies to sell everything from cars to beer.
If parents have managed to keep their children healthy with this sort of bias surrounding them, then I would say the parents have done their job and shouldn’t worry about their roommates in college- whether they are gay- straight- asexual or whatever.
The student is now an adult and should have the last word who she wants to room with. IF she is uncomfortable, then she should take it up with appropriate party
My daughters school I don’t believe allows any switching until some attempt is made to get along-
Really a girl at a large campus probably has a higher risk of being raped by a heterosexual man, than having her lesbian roomate make a “pass” at her once she has made it clear she isn’t interested</p>
<p>Fountain Siren asked: “Shouldnt you be able to make choices about your sexual comfort zone?”</p>
<p>Yes, you should be able to make choices about your sexual comfort zone in the sense of who you have sex with. Am I comfortable with males? females? either/or? threesomes? well you get the picture. Sexual activity is your choice and what you engage in is your choice according to your comfort level. Nobody should force you to engage in a sexual activity that you do not want to engage in. </p>
<p>Should you be able to make choices as to who your roommate is freshman year? I don’t think it is set up that way other than basic habit questionnaires. It is pretty random and yes, you might be put with someone you would never have chosen in a million years. The hope of the college is that you will learn to coexist and respect one another and work things out. If that cannot happen, there are services on campus to mediate the situation. Schools can make you room with whomever they assign. That is what is typical of being a freshman on a diverse college campus. If someone wants kids to all be one type, they might have to choose to attend a college where it is quite specialized in some fashion, perhaps religious, whatever. </p>
<p>By putting together gay and straight students in a living situation, nobody is forcing you to engage in any sexual activity with which you feel discomfort. I really doubt that the gay student is going to do anything in an untoward fashion to the straight student particularly if the straight student makes it known that they are straight and disinterested. I don’t see any threat here. I don’t see what the gay student is going to do or act that will affect the other student. If the student engages in sex in the other student’s presence, well, sure, that is uncomfortable and inappropriate (whether gay or straight). That’s the point. Uncomfortable situations and experiences are worthy of intervention. Merely someone’s identity should not then imply an unlivable situation. </p>
<p>I do agree with Emeraldkitty’s statement: “Really a girl at a large campus probably has a higher risk of being raped by a heterosexual man, than having her lesbian roomate make a “pass” at her once she has made it clear she isn’t interested.”</p>
<p>That is probably a much more likely threat for a girl than a gay roommate which I see as no threat. Maybe it is uncomfortable for some kids to live with someone SO utterly different than themselves but a good learning situation to adapt, as is intended by attending a diverse school. Nobody said that the straight student had to embrace the situation and be thrilled with it, but it would be expected that the student tolerates the other student in a respectful manner unless some experience points to a problem. The identity of that student in itself should not be such that one opts to bail. I don’t just say this about the gay roomie situation but ANY situation. Nobody said all of this would be easy and it is certainly a new experience for some kids to be thrown in with kids so different from their own leanings and background. That is part of what the college experience is…not just the classes. Learning to adapt and to get to know such very different people, that is a big part of college. Perhaps a straight student from a sheltered background learns a thing or two about types of people he/she thought they’d never understand or like based on preconceived notions. By giving it a chance, they might learn and grow in ways they never thought were imaginable. What a thought. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Susan,</p>
<p>Would all this also apply to a female having to room with a heterosexual male?</p>
<p>Would it be appropriate to prefer another room-mate, even if the male has not behaved inappropriately to the female or even if you do not expect that he will; is it enough that sexuality has to be part of the dynamic between two roommates to prefer another asexual rooming option?</p>
<p>Im certain that there are those who would not mind and even some who would prefer it for some of the reasons you mention, there will also be females who have enough problems either with their own sexuality or their own sexual history to want and need to avoid putting themselves in this situation.</p>
<p>I do not think that anyone will necessarily make inappropriate gestures to anyone; I would think it is highly unlikely to happen and that is not the point. It is a state of mind and comfort, and its opposite.</p>
<p>Some women who choose same-sex schools claim to do it to be away from the sexual tensions (and simple gender tensions) involved in a unisexual education (most for other reasons, though some for the reason I mentioned, one of my best friends is going to Wellesley with this in mind).</p>
<p>Some really great posts, especially by SoozieVT.</p>
<p>I related some posts from this thread to my straight daughter and got a Grade I eye-rolling normally reserved for exceptionally annoying parents.</p>
<p>Some people’s “comfort zones” are such that perhaps they would be better off living as hermits atop a column, as they could thereby maintain their comfort zone unchallenged in blissful ignorance. As Mr. B notes, roommates can turn out to be vegan, Republican, anorexic, smokers. I’d be much more concerned about a roommate who was a smoker than a roommate who was gay.</p>
<p>Chocs: yes and no. We had a parent in this thread using extremely offensive & vulgar language in discussing gays. THAT is crass. Calling someone on their bigotry is merely blunt. And I’ve reached an age where I can gracefully not be concerned whether it offends someone or not.</p>
<p>TheDad,</p>
<p>Believing you are right does not clear the necessary ground to revile anyone or someone as an evil, bigoted, racist or criminal person; or for holding a racist or bigoted or evil opinion of others based on your impression of them: certainly history has taught us that. </p>
<p>Such accusations as this, said in ignorance or loathing, require a higher standard of proof even than pornography; it is not good enough to say, I know it when I see it. </p>
<p>When reasonable people make these terrible accusations it is normally understood that such statements should be accompanied by evidence that points to the factif there is one. Otherwise, it seemsas Bernard Shaw would say, in another contextmerely the last refuge of a scoundrel.</p>
<p>Yet you call most people that disagree with you McCarthy, bigots, and more…my my…</p>
<p>As the McCarthy receiver, I don’t think you know much about McCarthy and to compare me to him was just pathetic, to be honest</p>
<p>ANd history has taught us a lot, bigotry come from ignorance and fear…coming from an Irish Catholic family that had to endure signs that said no irish wanted, and with a mom who faced it all the time in Texas for liking a Mexican, and from a H whose’s friend was killed in Northern Ireland duuring the troubles, bigotry is ugly. </p>
<p>And yeah, I know it when I see it, read it, feel it</p>
<p>Its the bigot who is in denial I fear almost more then the one who admits it openly…at least with them I know what I am dealing with</p>
<p>"Believing you are right does not clear the necessary ground to revile anyone or someone as an evil, bigoted, racist or criminal person; or for holding a racist or bigoted or evil opinion of others based on your impression of them: certainly history has taught us that. " That could be about homophobia as well</p>
<p>Fountain Siren, I’ll respond because you addressed your post to me. I do not wish to argue about it. I stated my point of view and I don’t truly agree with your reasoning or point of view. You keep asking about a female rooming with a heterosexual male. First off, this is rarely the housing situation in the dorms, though males and females share off campus apartments. I would not mind my D sharing space with heterosexual males who were friends. I mean it is not like EVERY male is going to hit upon or be romantically or sexually interested in a female just because they live in close quarters. My kids, both girls, are very close to boys. One of my kids would say some of her bestest friends are boys. Would I mind her sharing a living area? Not really because they are simply friends. It is different if she is sharing with a boy who is going out with her and having sex with her. So, it is not all that different than the situation we are discussing here. A straight girl and a lesbian…the girls would just be friends…the gay girl is not going to be interested in the straight girl because most gay people wish to be sexually involved with other gay people, not straight people and the lesbian would not be going for the straight roomie, just like a good male friend is not going to get sexually involved with a female friend. The analogy you are trying to make in your “argument” is implying that none of us want our D’s to room with hetero males because that is sexually “charged” but are saying A-OK to rooming with a lesbian because it would not be sexually charged. And I am saying that not every male-female friendship is sexually charged either! Also while not quite the same as being roommates, kids in dorms often have boys and girls in adjacent rooms and sometimes sharing bathrooms and all that so they live in close quarters. All of it is about getting along with all types and not seeing every person as a potential sexually charged situation. </p>
<p>You made reference to sending girls to all girl colleges to be away from sexual tensions (as you called them) and all I can say is wow…my D (who was not looking to be away from sexual tensions as she likes being around boys) seriously considered Smith and visited twice including two overnights. She was not that interested in a women’s college but liked this particular school. Anyway, I’m smiling at your reference to being away from “sexual tensions” because at Smith, there is a HUGE lesbian population and plenty of sexual “tensions” going on. In fact, the likelihood of being put with a lesbian roommate at Smith is rather high. There’s lots of sex going on at women’s schools, like Smith. </p>
<p>Anyway, the thing about your “argument” that does not jive with me is that I don’t see living with a homosexual (if you are straight) as a “sexually” charged situation whatsoever. I see it as two people who are different in many ways, sharing a space and getting to know one another for who they are, and their sexual orientation is just one facet of their personality. You know, many homosexual youth have NOT come out of the closet. So, you really do not even know if your roomie is straight just cause he/she has not said he is gay, he MIGHT be anyway. How 'bout that? Is that a sexually charged atmosphere? I mean some gay people will not even let on that they are gay. Surely those who come out of the closet are not AFTER every person of the same sex. They are interested in those who share their ORIENTATION! </p>
<p>So, to answer your question…a girl and hetero guy who are not interested in one another sexually or romantically is not all that different than a gay person and a straight person of the same gender who ALSO are not interested in one another in a sexual way. From my experience, two people (who have the potential to be sexual partners due to orientation) can be friends without ever contemplating any sexual tension between them. I’m talking a hetero guy and girl or a homosexual girl and straight girl and same with a homosexual boy and straight boy. It doesn’t necessarily follow that they will share some sort of sexual “tension” because they have the potential to share a sexual relationship. Usually when it comes to sex, you can’t have a sexual relationship unless BOTH parties are interested. Otherwise it is rape or harrassment, both which would be JUST cause to terminate a roommate arrangement or any other association. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>“OK, sure, you win. Newsflash: Now the gay community should be worrying about straight people being attracted to them. You’re really grasping at straws, aren’t you?”</p>
<p>I don’t know exactly how you meant this statement but it is a constant issue for my son since straight females have been asking him out since middle school. And guess what? It makes him uncomfortable! It makes him especially uncomfortable when he has already told them he is gay. But he has to deal with it. He doesn’t get to opt out by changing his environment.</p>
<p>Thanks mini!</p>
<p>FS: if it quacks like a duck and and walks like a duck, it’s probably a duck and it’s definitely not a mongoose. You have some ugly outlooks and you’re content to live with them, piling up all the rationalizations you want. Fine. Just don’t expect people to avert their eyes or say how pretty they are.</p>
<p>“OK, sure, you win. Newsflash: Now the gay community should be worrying about straight people being attracted to them. You’re really grasping at straws, aren’t you?”</p>
<p>I don’t know exactly how you meant this statement but it is a constant issue for my son since straight females have been asking him out since middle school. And guess what? It makes him uncomfortable! It makes him especially uncomfortable when he has already told them he is gay. But he has to deal with it. He doesn’t get to opt out by changing his environment.</p>
<p>Thanks mini!"</p>
<p>Yup. And so-called “straight women” hit on lesbians all the time - they tend to like to “experiment”, and if you spend anytime within the gay community, you’d know it really p-sses gay folks off.</p>
<p>You have some ugly outlooks</p>
<p>For our college essays we were told to show-dont-tell for obvious reasons. If you are content to use hateful and stereo-typical epithets about people at least give them the dignity of pointing out their errors. In this case, and in this virtual world, we are limited to the things people actually write in their posts (while lacking psychic abilities).</p>
<p>So instead of a pontifical approach to using hate-speech I would appreciate you pointing to the exact words I have used which would validate your hate-speech rather than speaking to the anatomy of ducks and cartoon characters and a subjective sense of the beautiful. </p>
<p>I have said no one should leave home for the first time and be required to live in a sexual atmosphere that makes them feel uncomfortable, specifically:</p>
<p>Im certain that there are those who would not mind and even some who would prefer it for some of the reasons you mention, there will also be females who have enough problems either with their own sexuality or their own sexual history to want and need to avoid putting themselves in this situation.</p>
<p>Where is the ugly outlook?</p>
<p>For the record, I would fall into the first category I mentioned, I however, do not believe that because it is ok for me, or even good for me that it must be doctrine for everyone else.</p>
<p>CGM,</p>
<p>I don know whether I should be offended or show your post to my friends for a good laugh.</p>
<p>As an Iranian/Canadian female, I do not need to think into the past to understand the effects of intolerance. It is a day to day consideration.</p>
<p>As to my education on the subject, my mother lived through a terrible war where over a million people were slaughtered–worse, we lost family members and many close friends of our family to religious and political imprisonment, torture and execution. My mother escaped to Switzerland when she was 26.</p>
<p>One of my closest relatives, my cousin, who stays with us throughout part of each year was tortured and raped as a political prisoner for two years and I have learned a lot from her about the actual dark side of human behavior. She was accepted into the States as a refuge on the basis of her political imprisonment and torture.</p>
<p>Our family volunteered to run and ran an international charity for five years in Montreal (we lived in the same building and I grew up with these people) and took in refugees who had no more than the clothes on their back, on a daily basis–many having just escaped death and imprisonment in their home countries. </p>
<p>My father was one of the editors of the “Multicultural” in Montreal and worked with the commission on refugees and the human rights court on a regular basis.</p>
<p>I am very sensitive to intolerance in every form, not just the fashionable ones.</p>
<p>As with thedad, please, show-dont-tell. If I have attacked you, show me where and, if I have in fact, I will apologize.</p>
<p>“Yup. And so-called “straight women” hit on lesbians all the time - they tend to like to “experiment”, and if you spend anytime within the gay community, you’d know it really p-sses gay folks off.”</p>
<p>I know just what you mean. Don’t you find straight women can often be incredibily and inappropriately sexually agressive? It really is frightening at times! </p>
<p>Oh wait-- maybe I am indulging in a stereotype. I apologize in advance to anyone on the board with a straight daughter and do hope no straight women are reading the board who may have been offended by my comment.</p>
<p>“I would appreciate you pointing to the exact words I have used which would validate your hate-speech” </p>
<p>“Apparently, some are so sensitive over this issue that they have determined the correct language and grammar to use while discussing it…imagine living with that every day after bio-chem.”</p>
<p>FS: Your words have been troubling me but I hesitated to write anything since I really don’t want to hurt the feelings of a 17 year old. I think you have the right to think whatever you choose and live however you wish… until it impacts others negatively. It is important to understand that the language you use at college in social gatherings can be very hurtful to others. IMO it is just basic good manners to try not to use language you know is offensive to others. I am guessing you aren’t in college yet, but many schools will have orientation sessions that attempt to explain this concept.</p>
<p>Just not worth my time, FS. I shouldn’t have to point out offenses. Adults know when they have done something.</p>
<p>Some of us are trying to explain that we must RESPECT other’s feelings and beliefs even if we don’t agree with them. You holier than thou folks accuse us of being rude, insensitive, bigots, etc. You are all of that and more for not accepting of the fact that there are people whose opinions differ from yours. I’m outta here with this ridiculous thread and your narrow-minded, ever-popular political correctness (not everybody has to be politiclly correct you know!). Hmmmmmm, maybe we should start a thread about religion now.</p>
<p>I give up to. Bigotry is judging people before even knowing them. Plain and simple.</p>
<p>Sigh</p>
<p>One final thought. I have 3 very close and very dear relatives who are gay. No, I am not a bigot. You are reading something into the posts that aren’t there. I feel sorry for you that you are so opinionated that you can’t see things for what they are.</p>
<p>"I know just what you mean. Don’t you find straight women can often be incredibily and inappropriately sexually agressive? It really is frightening at times! </p>
<p>Oh wait-- maybe I am indulging in a stereotype. I apologize in advance to anyone on the board with a straight daughter and do hope no straight women are reading the board who may have been offended by my comment."</p>
<p>It isn’t a question of stereotyping, just of numbers. Population surveys show the incidence of gay women in the population as under 3%. But the same surveys show homosexual experimentation among women at something like 6 times that. It’s not a matter of stereotyping, just odds.</p>
<p>columbiamom: I don’t want to beat up on you. I understand that you really just don’t get it. Did you show your gay relatives this thread? Did they have any comment? Sadly, I have a (formerly) dear straight relative with whom I recently had to cut off any contact because, although she doesn’t think she is in any way a bigot, is incapable of being in the room with my son for an hour without seriously insulting him. We raised our kids together. It was difficult for all concerned but I couldn’t allow her openly anti-gay remarks to injure my child. And after many months and many written communications she still doesn’t understand exactly why I am upset with her.</p>