Georgetown SFS vs. Wellesley vs. Middlebury

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You don’t even know that you want to study IR and Wellesley kids have better placement than Gtown SFS and Midd as good as Gtown as I showed above.

You could also do a DC semester. Thise kids, like my daughter, intern but also take two classes, which were at night. But you tho k there are no internships in the Boston suburbs or the county / town in or near Midd ?

If you think Gtown gives less risk, so long as you can easily transfer to your desired majors, go there. But based on what you wrote - and every person who read what you wrote has interpreted similarly - Gtown is the odd man out. You asked for opinions - up to you whether to agree with them or not.

One last thing and I don’t know if it’s changed - a few years back parents complained that their kids spent so much on eating out at Gtown because the food was bad. You don’t read that anymore so perhaps it’s changed. Today Gtown gets a B-, Midd an A-, and C+. After seeing what my kids went through I might look at that. Kids that don’t eat flounder. I’d investigate W on this too - maybe talk to some on social media or with a student ambassador.

And Gtown, being Jesuit, will have an extensive core and religious imagery. Does that bother you ? It would some. Others would embrace all things Jesuit.

Good luck.

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sorry didn’t mean to come across like I don’t want opinions :sweat_smile: I’m just trying to make sure I’ve fully considered every possibility/concern

interesting—hadn’t heard that before so I’ll be sure to check that out, thanks! although I’m not too picky about what I eat tbh (plus at the end of the day, dining hall food will be dining hall food)

yes, I did notice that! i think they seemed fairly willing to embrace everyone and moreso emphasized understanding different perspectives (i mean they have so many different religious official people—not sure the exact term but it seemed like many religions were well represented within their campus ministry). I’m not super religious myself but it seemed kind of cool that they encouraged learning about other religions rather than like “catholicism is the only way”. Plus,the jesuit values of making the world a better place, etc. are pretty universally applicable (at least in my mind? idk)

Thanks again for the help!

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I’ve been a university professor for over 20 years, and I confirm this. The academic market for PhDs in the humanities and even social sciences has been abysmal for a while. Most PhDs from the most elite institutions would be thrilled to end up in a place like Middlebury.

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A glut of humanities PhDs means that jobs in academia are scarce, therefore, location is not as much of a factor as one might think.

Many assert that profs at LACs are there by choice because they prefer teaching over research, but the reality is that they prefer to work (and to eat and to pay their bills) in their chosen field.

However, I wonder whether, for one who accepts a position teaching at an LAC, if a professorship is foreclosed at a major national research university.

OP: It is easy to romanticize life at an LAC, but , for many, that is not the reality. LACs are small communities, while universities offer more diversity and a greater variety of opportunities on a daily basis. Nevertheless, for some, life in a major city such as Wash DC (a very livable city) can offer too many options.

And Washington DC is different than most major American cities. Height of buildings is limited for security reasons, highly educated professionals dominate, and getting around is quite easy.

P.S. I cannot overstate the availability of significant internship/externship opportunities in Washington DC and the very accessible, adjacent areas of the DMV throughout the year. Additionally, recreational opportunities are abundant and available to everyone.

The folks one meets on a daily basis in Washington, D.C. will, or, at least should, astonish you for their intellect, accomplishments, ongoing endeavors, and accessibility (in appropriate situations).

OP: Do you want cozy or dynamic ? This is the essence of your options.

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I think this is very field-specific. At a high level, the big difference between being faculty at LACs versus research universities is the amount of research you are expected to do in order to get tenure. If you wanted to lateral from a tenure-track position at an LAC to a research university, you would typically have to show you were willing and able to meet the research expectations of the latter.

In some fields, this isn’t going to be particularly difficult, as the external resources you need to do a larger volume of quality research are easily obtainable at your LAC. In other fields, it may be nearly impossible.

Of course none of this implies LAC faculty are somehow WORSE for undergrad teaching purposes. If anything, the opposite, as the criteria for selection and advancement of LAC faculty are much more focused on undergraduate teaching interest and ability.

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You make great points on both the benefits of studying in DC and the pluses of a university compared to an LAC. From reading the original post though, I just got the sense that OP was not that excited about Georgetown as a place for them. The description of concerns re preppy vibe, some students perceived as mean and concerns about the pre-professionalism, just seem like that is not the right university for them given their other choices.

When someone has excellent options as all of these are, I think gut instincts on how they feel about the place as somewhere to live and be part of the community for four years should carry a lot of weight. If it were me, Georgetown would be out just based on how OP describes their perception/sense of it compared to the other two.

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Sure. Everything that you wrote is correct except that the OP doesn’t know what she doesn’t know. Sharing information to expand or to supplement the OP’s knowledge is appropriate at this time as no final decision has been made.

Life is about choices, but it should be about informed choices.

Some folks are ready to grow in different directions and in different ways and at different speeds during this particular time in their young lives.

College is about intellectual & personal growth and sometimes it is good to leave one’s comfort zone.

I have read the OP’s posts which, to me at least, indicate that Wellesley College is her choice.

Regardless, OP has 3 great options with no wrong choice.

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Sorry if you thought I was suggesting you should not share the information you did. I did not mean to suggest that at all. I thought the information you shared was excellent. I was just sharing how I thought about it in the context of what OP wrote and that the rational reasons to choose one excellent place should not override the emotional reasons to choose another in my view.

My point was to add another layer for OP to think about, not to try to shutdown or criticize sharing of quality information as you had done.

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I think one main difference of the vibe might come from the presence of McDonough, which has a sizable chunk of the undergrad enrollment, many pushing for IB type and other competitive finance roles.

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Some professors will prefer one type of institution or the other, and some who would ultimately prefer a research university might make the leap from a LAC to an R1 in the early stages of their careers. It’s much more difficult to do this after earning tenure, as very few job searches target tenured faculty. That’s the case for any faculty member, in any discipline - the time to move, if you’re going to move, is pre-tenure (in most cases). I have known several scholars who have made the LAC→R1 move at the pre-tenured phase of their careers, so it’s certainly possible, to the extent that it’s possible for anyone to make a career move in an insanely tight job market.

However – in my experience, top LACs like Wellesley and Middlebury will often favor job applicants who themselves have some background with LAC education, who appreciate the LAC ethos and mission, and who can articulate this understanding in their application materials. Top LACs (contrary to popular perception) do in fact offer generous support for research and have high expectations for scholarly production: not as high as R1s typically, but considerably higher than lower-ranking universities where faculty have less research support and higher teaching and service loads. So LACs like these get their pick of applicants and favor those who want these kinds of jobs, which is why relatively few faculty members choose to leave.

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If you might be interested in survey-based information with which to evaluate “classroom experience,” this site will be worth viewing:

As an opinion irrespective of the above site, your personal impressions seem most in favor of, and your preferences seem most aligned with, the choice of Wellesley.

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Yes, new PhDs looking for tenure-track positions at top LACs need to put on an incredible self-promotional effort where they both convince the institution they will be a truly enthusiastic and dedicated undergraduate teacher AND a valued colleague when it comes to research and such.

And unless they somehow are pulling off a big con job, then why would they WANT to leave? These will be their versions of a dream job in academia.

That said, sometimes young professors do evolve their research interests in ways surprising even to them, and in cases like that they may conclude they do need to be at a research university to support the academic career they now want. As you point out, this almost always is going to require a pre-tenure change.

Deciding to jump tracks like that as a tenured prof–well, never say never, but that’s going to be extraordinarily rare. To the extent research universities are looking to hire already-tenured professors, it is usually to pick off research/publishing all stars. And that just isn’t a game professors are likely to start playing at that level that late in their careers.

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This site, which includes all three of your potential choices, may be worth browsing:

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