Georgetown SFS vs. Wellesley vs. Middlebury

Compare College Acceptances
, ,
1

warning there’s kind of a lot of yapping so feel free to skim or read the tldr—I just wanted to list as much info as possible for context in case people want to read all of my pros/cons

each school has unique things that really draw me to it, as well as things that I don’t fully love, which is making deciding very difficult, so a lot of this is also kind of nitpicky (plus, at the end of the day, they’re all great schools)

cost and distance from home are all about the same, domestic student

undecided major but considering IR, or STIA (at Georgetown) or math/physics (at Wellesley/Midd)—I enjoy languages, global stuff, maps, math, physics, and don’t really know what I want to do in the future, I just want to make money (ideally doing something that I at least remotely enjoy) :sob:. I’m not really a party person/drinker, and I tend to vibe with nerdier/more academic people. I’m from a warmer state but prefer the cold. This also might sound stupid, but I genuinely enjoy learning and would ideally like to be in an environment where that’s more of a thing than just grades grades grades (but still somewhere where I can get a job after :sob:). I’m also a bit burnt out from hs and I’m worried about further burnout in college.

tldr to avoid yap (I’d recommend reading everything above but everything below this paragraph is yap): gtown has great opportunities+prestige but the vibes felt kinda off, I preferred the vibes at wellesley but am concerned about opportunties/career as well as intensity, I liked the laid-backness and loved the access to sports and outdoorsy stuff at midd but am concerned about weather and opportunities/career

Georgetown SFS: the school name (especially SFS) carries a lot of weight (Midd+Wellesley often aren’t recognized, esp out of the northeast), and being in DC (+at gtown) gives access to so many amazing opportunities—internships, speakers, profs, etc. However, it had an extremely preppy feel and some of the students seemed kind of mean. On the plus side, I did find some students who seemed nice/cool and there were a good number of language/global nerds in the SFS. However, I still don’t love the preppy vibe. There was also a strong pre-professional feel and I was worried it would stress me and I’d feel constantly pressured to be working towards a career rather than taking time to just enjoy the college experience, which I’m also worried would cause burnout. However, the pre-professional feel will probably ensure that I find a career path/will probably lead to money post-grad. It’s also more structured than a liberal arts college, enhancing the pre-professional feel and giving less opportunity to explore. I do like that the SFS is pretty open though– my understanding is you can still study STIA, etc. and go into govt or into something like business, science etc. Also, I’m not super religious—doesn’t seem like a huge problem because they seem pretty open, and I don’t disagree with the principle of Jesuit values, but it is still a presence.

Wellesley: I really loved the vibes—the campus is gorgeous and everyone seemed really cool and welcoming, and also generally just happy to be there. I also like that you get both a naturey feel with the lake and big campus, but you also have relatively good access to Boston. Plus, I love the idea of cross-enrollment, and I enjoyed the small class size and exploration offered through the liberal arts, as well as the wintersession. If I choose to do IR, it seems like there’d still be some opportunities (maybe not as many as SFS though, which is a drawback), but the Albright Institute seems cool? They have a reputation for harsh grading and extreme academic intensity, which I’m worried might impact my gpa and thus ability to get jobs/grad school. Is it really that much more intense than somewhere like gtown, though? I should also probably learn to interact with men eventually though, and some of my family has concerns that the alumni network from a women’s college will be less strong since (unfortunately) women are statistically less likely to hold positions as powerful as men? I liked that Wellesley felt less pre-professional than gtown, but I’m worried about the ability to get internships/a career after if it’s not as pre-professional feeling–if anyone can speak to that, that would be awesome.

Middlebury: I loved the cozy feel and the nature vibes, and the campus is gorgeous. I also really like the access to the outdoors and cool mountain sports. I could continue my sports here a lot better than I could at the other two (one, I’d have to completely quit at Georgetown and mostly quit at Wellesley; and the other I could participate in at all three colleges, but it would be completely free at Midd, which is nice (although the season at Midd only goes until February, after which I have to stop, but still I feel like the unlimited access until then balances it out)). Their language program is also insanely cool—I love the intense/accelerated language classes, the language houses (more languages offered than other schools) and tables, and the language pledge+internship opportunities while studying abroad. J-term also seems fun, and again, I like that the liberal arts allows for exploration+small classes. The professors here also felt extremely invested, although I’m slightly concerned about the budget cuts (doesn’t seem to impact much, and it means the profs are extra dedicated to being there, but idk). Plus, apparently it can be harder to hire profs willing to live in rural Vermont, which means the profs may be slightly lower quality? Midd had even more of a preppy feel than at Georgetown, and almost everyone kind of felt the same (didn’t find a ton of nerdy-feeling kids but idk); however no one felt mean–in fact, everyone seemed extremely nice. I’ve also heard it can get cliquey though. I’m also a bit concerned about the location—I love that it means nature activities but I’m worried I might get bored, also I like the cold but that’s a LOT of snow/extreme cold. Also, it’s probably not really an option to get internships during the school year due to the location. Midd had the same pros/cons about a less pre-professional feel than Wellesley. Also, Midd had very chill vibes, which was nice, but it almost felt too chill—are these people actually getting jobs after? I suppose they are bc average starting salary is decently high, but I’m not sure.

1 Like
2

You should eliminate Gtown. Why? It’s odd to me that if you go there you’ll be in SFS but you would do math and physics at the other two.

Not sure I love this - but it’s more likely with math and phsyics. But here’s why I say to choose the other.

You will not pick a major early - you can go around and experience. Maybe you find a love for physics. Maybe you fall in love with Geosciences or Quantitative Reasoning or Peace Studies. Or at Midd. Or at Midd, maybe it will be Neuroscience or Stats.

The point being - you don’t need to know now…or even next year.

You love both the vibe at Wellesley and being at Midd.

Your reason for Gtown - SFS is famous. OK - but so what - and you know who doesn’t assure an internship. Most get - but so did my College of Charleston daughter when she studied for the semester at a top think tank. And if you’re interested in DC, most schools have a DC semester or opportunity.

Not sure Midd has academics but has an internship program at least. I’ve read online they also allowe the Washington Semester via American U. Wellesley seems to offer similar.

I wish you had better goals than making money - but you know who gets paid little - DC people - so in my mind, you’re better to go where you are interested - and where you have time to explore.

So I’d decide between the two LACs - and that’s city vs. rural and women vs. coed.

Good luck.

CapitolWorks | Middlebury

Middlebury in DC Summer Internship | Middlebury

5 Likes
3

If the vibes at Georgetown aren’t right, then I’d rule it out. Unless you have your heart set on a pretty specific career, I think you’d be able to get where you want to go from Wellesley and Middlebury. And if one of those speaks to you more, I’d do that. Absolutely nothing wrong with choosing Wellesley if that’s what you felt most comfortable with.

I’ll also note that my D26 looked at Georgetown and the SFS and ruled it out because it felt too pre-professional even though the STIA major is interesting. She liked Wellesley as much more academically-minded but still with students that wanted to DO something. If that resonates, then it might be a good place for you. I don’t know much about Middlebury.

4 Likes
4

OP: Based on your post-starting thread, it seems that your clear preference is Wellesley College as you do not like the preppy vibe at Middlebury & Georgetown and because you are not comfortable interacting with men/males.

The Wellesley network is strong.

Which concentration would you prefer if you did STIA at Georgetown ?

Study of languages favors Middlebury & Georgetown SFS over Wellesley.

On average, highest earnings school would be Georgetown, but math & physics majors tend to command attractive salaries.

If you don’t like preppy, then Georgetown & Middlebury might not be your best options.

OP: Other than your misconception regarding the strength of the Wellesley alumni network, I think that you understand your options well based on your likes & dislikes.

2 Likes
5

Women’s college alums in my experience are some of the most interested in helping out younger graduates, including of other women’s colleges in fact. I would actually see this as a plus for Wellesley.

In general, I would have zero concerns with employment coming out of Wellesley or Middlebury, as long as you do reasonably well. And happy people tend to do better, so I would just go wherever you think you would be happiest.

9 Likes
6

I would not worry about this with Wellesley. First of all, going to a women’s college doesn’t mean you won’t learn to interact with men (slightly different situation, but: I went to a girls’ school from grades 7-12, and I did not feel at all ill-equipped for my co-ed college – if anything, I felt more confident). For one thing, you probably already know how to interact with men. For another, summer internships and jobs will put you in more gender-diverse settings. And as far as networking, the alumnae network is famously outstanding. These students are driven and smart and they go on to distinguished careers.

Absolutely not. I’m in higher ed, and Middlebury would be a highly desirable job for academics. People are there because they want to be, and they feel lucky to have jobs like that. The job market in academia is so tight that there aren’t too many candidates who feel any job is beneath them, but Middlebury? That’s a plum job for people who can get it (and LACs often like to hire people who have a LAC background, either as a student or in another teaching position, so you can bet that the faculty at Middlebury value the school’s mission and value teaching along with scholarship). Middlebury’s not getting any second-choice professors – they’re getting the cream of the crop.

Yes, Middlebury can feel cliquey and can get cold and snowy. Yes, the town is sleepy, but there will be lots going on on campus,and Burlington is a cool small city not far away (they run free shuttles, if I remember correctly). No, you probably won’t have internships during the school year – that’s what summers are for – but it is relatively easy to join professors’ research teams (this is the case with most LACs).

Yes,absolutely. Good ones. And they do well with grad school admissions, too – my nephew (who graduated from Midd last year) is now at a T14 law school.

Sounds like both Wellesley and Midd registered with you on some level – I would pick from those and don’t look back. You can’t go wrong.

7 Likes
7

It’s odd to me that if you go there you’ll be in SFS but you would do math and physics at the other two.

I would likely do either IR, math, or physics at the other two—I’m not fully decided, which is my dilemma because if I do end up in IR, the SFS is kind of the place to be. Unfortunately, I kind of love a little bit of everything (which yes, I do realize this further argues for liberal arts, which is why I said I liked the opportunity to explore).

Not sure I love this - but it’s more likely with math and phsyics. But here’s why I say to choose the other.

I wish you had better goals than making money

Sorry, guess I should have been a little clearer—unfortunately, the reality is that many interesting fields don’t really pay enough, and I’d like to be able to live comfortably in the future, especially since I’m investing so much money into my education now. However, I’d also like to do something that is interesting to me, I just haven’t quite figured out what yet (although I have occasionally considered becoming a foreign service officer, which is again why I’m considering the SFS, but also realistically that field is extremely difficult to get into, especially now when the govt isn’t exactly hiring).

So I’d decide between the two LACs - and that’s city vs. rural and women vs. coed.

Good luck.

Thanks, appreciate the help!

8

because you are not comfortable interacting with men/males.

Moreso the opposite; I currently go to an all girls school and my point was I should probably consider branching out and experiencing a co-ed education, since I’ll have to interact with men in the “real world”, so to speak (this is mainly a point from family members, although I don’t necessarily disagree with it). I don’t honestly have a huge preference between interacting with men/males and not—I’d be fine if I never saw a man again, but also don’t mind co-ed environments.

Which concentration would you prefer if you did STIA at Georgetown ?

Not completely sure yet—in the SFS you don’t have to declare your major immediately, so I’d consider both International Politics and STIA, and I’d explore the concentrations but realistically would probably be looking most at physics or space (they’re adding a new space concentration next year that sounds cool).

Study of languages favors Middlebury & Georgetown SFS over Wellesley.

Do you by chance know anything about the quality of Wellesley language programs? I’m more familiar with the language programs at Middlebury+Georgetown since they’re more prevalent.

On average, highest earnings school would be Georgetown, but math & physics majors tend to command attractive salaries.

This is one of my concerns with not choosing Georgetown.

Thanks for the help!

1 Like
9

irst of all, going to a women’s college doesn’t mean you won’t learn to interact with men (slightly different situation, but: I went to a girls’ school from grades 7-12, and I did not feel at all ill-equipped for my co-ed college – if anything, I felt more confident). For one thing, you probably already know how to interact with men.

I’ve been at an all girls school 4-12, which is why I’m more concerned about the women’s college point—otherwise I wouldn’t mind at all. Although the one thing that helps is that a women’s college and an all girls school are still fairly different things. And yes, the summer internships point helps.

Absolutely not. I’m in higher ed, and Middlebury would be a highly desirable job for academics.

That was what I assumed, although when we visited my dad talked to someone working there (forgot who) who said he had minor difficulties getting the people he wanted for his dept due to the rural location. Still good to hear that it’s highly regarded in higher ed from a prof perspective too.

Yes, Middlebury can feel cliquey

Do you have any clue if it’s mostly manageable? Like I’ve heard that college tends to be less cliquey than hs—so I guess my point is do people still have an ok time finding friends and making new ones (if they want to or realize they don’t vibe with their friend group and want to move to a different friend group)

Yes,absolutely. Good ones. And they do well with grad school admissions, too – my nephew (who graduated from Midd last year) is now at a T14 law school.

Good to hear. Does Midd do a good job with their career center as well? My parents were a bit worried because apparently (we went to one of the shorter previews) the students (seniors about to graduate) that spoke on the panels for the parents didn’t seem thrilled about the jobs that they were headed to, and many of them were doing things completely outside of their major?

Sounds like both Wellesley and Midd registered with you on some level – I would pick from those and don’t look back. You can’t go wrong.

Thanks—glad to hear most people don’t think it’s crazy to turn down the opportunity that the Georgetown SFS offers.

Thanks for the help!

10

also I suppose I should add that part of my concern with cliqueyness (and also preppy people, to an extent) stems from my high school experience—I’ve felt kind of cut off/excluded from my friend group often and never really felt like I’ve found my “people”, so to speak, and I’m really worried about repeating my mistake in college. I also go to a smaller hs, and word travels FAST—I don’t necessarily want to go somewhere where everyone knows everything about everyone, and I want to be able to find new friends if I feel like I want/need to; or I know some people make mistakes at my hs (because people make mistakes) and no one ever forgets, and it’s harder for them to make friends because EVERYONE knows, and so everyone’s kind of afraid to be themselves because of this judgement—that’s the kind of vibes I’m aiming to avoid in college, if this is at all helpful

1 Like
11

I think it’s mostly manageable. I’ve heard, for instance, that some teams tend to dominate some dorms, so the social life in those dorms tends to revolve around the teams – things like that. But I think you could find your people there. You might have to make an effort by joining clubs and trying activities until you find your people. It sounds like the Middlebury Outdoor Programs might be for you? Or there could be some other niche clubs that you like. And if you are interested in languages, you’ll find a lot of people with similar interests. Sometimes it takes time, but I think there’s enough going on that you’ll fond your place.

I can’t tell you much about this, since my nephew knew he was going to law school, so he didn’t try to use the career center for a first post-college job. But keep in mind that the first post-college job is often the first step in a long career, and that we’re in a very challenging job market right now. So it’s hard to know where those students’ experiences fit into that context. And when it comes down to it – the college doesn’t place you in your first job. You have to work the system using the resources they provide to find the right path. I knwo they invest a lot in their career center, but much of your success will depend on how you use those opportunities – and a little luck, and patience, because your first job out of college is unlikely to be your dream job.

2 Likes
12

Not sure this is true. I’ve never seen a statistic but when my daughter/I self toured W&L, we were on the quad when a nice man stopped us to ask if we needed help. Turns out he’s the head of their DC Program (right up her alley) and told us per Capita that W&L was #2 in DC placement. You know who he said was #1? Sewanee.

My kid, from College of Charleston, had 7 offers for internships, 5 paying, for her Fall internship. She also interned for the state in the summer. Her DC internship was at a high level think tank - she saw a lot of- but her formal role was a lot of transcription of presentations.

Is SFS a great place to be? Sure - but you don’t think Wellesley and Midd, especially with its language leadership, isn’t kicking butt there too? DId you watch the Trump DC hearings? Some of the main players were from Christopher Newport and Kent State.

Guess what - the world isn’t linear. AU kids don’t work for Georgetown Kids or Gtown kids don’t get jobs necessarily over Delaware or Mizzou kids.

So if you decide to pursue a government type or adjacent role, in DC or a state capital or county seat or wherever - neither Midd or Wellesley is going to hold you back.

And I, for one, think alumni networks are great - but not why I would choose a school. Many folks get contacted - no matter the school. Some help more than other - but in the end, there’s a small chunk of people who find jobs that way.

You need to be there for four years - day after day. So you want to be at a place that you enjoy.

And Wellesley kids can take classes at MIT and Babson - the premier engineering and business only schools in the country. That’s high company. So if that’s your preference, than go there. In the most recent Wellesley placement report, 22 placed in DC - with 9 total in VA and MD - which may be the DC area. For a small class, that’s pretty big.

If you bust tail, you’ll likely be fine. And if you don’t, you likely won’t - and I’ll say the same for all three schools.

So don’t regret, if you decide international studies/relations that you’re not at SFS. Be thankful that you didn’t need to make that decision today and that you had two years to truly cement that….or one of your other interests.

It’s very clear - based on what you wrote - Gtown isn’t right. You are going to school - not your dad. I don’t worry about things like harsh grading - I mean, you’re gonig to one of the top schools in the country. I worry about - how will you feel there?

You note continuing oin sport at Midd - so that’s a good thing - and the language program.

You worry about getting internships or a job - and yet Wellesley shows a 97% working, in a service program - which means like Teach for America which mine is doing - or in school. That’s with an 85% knowledge rate - so they have data from 85% of people.

Midd had 8 kids seeking jobs still - or 8% - they show a 96% knowledge rate.

Gtown SFS shows an 86% knowledge rate with 7.3% looking.

Technically Wellesley is the strongest but - alas they’re all pretty close - in regards to finding jobs. All three seem to offer funded internships - so if you don’t find one.

Basically, you’re looking for holes where there aren’t any.

Choose the school that feels right.

This is like owning a Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus - they all kick a$$ but one is different than the other two (Japanese vs. German) :slight_smile: But they all say - I’m bad a$$ - as all three of these schools are!! If there was three of you, they could easily each pick one - there is no better here - period….no matter the ultimate career choice - but there is one that lets you explore more.

Good luck.

1 Like
13

Let me address this.

  1. don’t assume government or adjacent jobs pay well. When you have a higher supply of employees than jobs, pay goes down. And these jobs tend to be in high cost of living areas.

  2. You have no idea what jobs are out there. I graduated at 30 with my MBA - and I’ve had so many jobs in the last 25+ years I didn’t even know exist.

And guess what, when you graduate in 4 years, there are jobs/duties that will exist - that don’t today.

Yes, it’s nice to make a good living - but you can’t make a statement - well, if I major in Art History, I’ll make nothing but at SFS I’ll make a ton. You’ll probably make more in Art History actually - because you might end up a consultant or investment banker vs. writing policy papers for peanuts in DC.

But nobody knows the future - we all find or fall into things.

But you are making assumptions and assessments that aren’t true.

If you want to most assuredly make money, then take a gap year and apply to your local public next year for an engieneering or accounting degree.

Best of luck.

2 Likes
14

To answer your questions (since my kid attended Midd).

First, the faculty at LACs are the ones who are passionate about teaching and about the missions of LACs in general. Living in a rural locations is often a bonus. LACs have the highest percent of graduating students who go on to do a PhD, and a very high percent of these very high level LAC grads who do a PhD have LACs as their top choices for work places. The top choices among LACs include both Wellesley and Midd.

Also, in general, in academia there is a glut of highly qualified people with PhDs, and Midd has high level students, is wealthy enough to provide a lot of support, and, as you wrote, it’s beautiful. No LAC at the level of Midd ever has an issue hiring top quality faculty of any background. So that should not be a concern.

Neither should internships, since it’s unlikely that you could actually be a full time students at any LAC and still have time to travel to another locations for an internship. However, it may be more difficult in Midd in any case, since they have 4-1-4 (fall semester, J-term, spring semester). Most serious internships are over the summer, and they are available at any college.

There are preppy kids, but there are artsy kids as well, but, like any LAC, you need to find your people to be happy. My kid is intellectual and artsy, and found her people at Midd.

Yes, if you’re not into winter activities, there is not much to do outside of college activities, or be part of a social house. If one of your friends group has a car, you can extend your reach, and there are places to derive to. However, if having access to museums, shows, etc, is important to you, Midd is definitely not a good place for that.

I agree with the others that you should choose between Wellesley and Midd, and not choose Georgetown. Looking at your descriptions of what you are looking for, I feel that Wellesley may be the better fit, but if engaging in your sport is really central to your emotional health, Midd may be the better choice.

4 Likes
15

Where did you hear this? I have not heard this.

Different professors will choose to teach at different schools for a wide variety of reasons. One advantage of small towns is that they can sometimes be less expensive to live in. I for example know a professor who teaches at a small university in a small town. One consequence is that some of his students are the children of farmers. Another consequence is that housing is relatively affordable (professors are not always particularly wealthy). He is there largely because he loves the small town and loves the rural feel of the area, and partly because he can afford to live there. He is not at Middlebury but I would expect similar thoughts to occur to some professors there.

Yes, you will get real winters in Middlebury.

I do agree that the cross-registration options at Wellesley are a plus. I went the other way when I was a student at MIT, taking a couple of classes at Wellesley. The bus back and forth was a welcome break during a busy day, and the Wellesley campus is attractive. Of course if you do decide to sign up for a class or two at MIT, it is very good for math and physics, although MIT is academically very demanding and I would expect Wellesley, and all of the schools you are considering, to also be very good for a wide range of subjects including math and physics.

You are comparing three excellent schools. In terms of getting a job your major will matter. What classes you take will matter. What internship experience you get will matter. Whether the economy recovers over the next four years will matter. Which of these three excellent schools you attend probably mostly won’t matter.

One issue is that most people show up at university not knowing many (if any) people on their campus. Thus a lot of students make new friends when they get to college / university.

Also, anyone who gets accepted to all of Georgetown, Wellesley, and Middlebury is intelligent enough to be a bit different from many of the other students in high school. However, when you get to college you will be surrounded by very smart students who are more “like you” in some ways compared to what you are used to. They might be from different states or even different countries. They might look different, or even have tattoos or dress differently or be from a different race. However they will be like you in ways that matter, such as being intelligent and taking education seriously. This can be a big step in the right direction for many strong students who are showing up at college for the first time.

2 Likes
16

Also going to push back on the “professors don’t want to live in a rural place”.

Absolutely not true. There are dual career Midd professors who have spouses/partners who are physicians in Burlington, have WFH situations with companies in Boston, NY, Albany, Providence so they only have to be there a few days a month, etc. It is a great lifestyle with many fewer hassles than the same dual career situation in other parts of the country.

5 Likes
17

Put another way, if Professors didn’t want to live in rural places, Williams, Amherst, Carleton, Grinnell, Hamilton, Midd, W&L, Colgate, Bucknell, Denison, Kenyon, etc. would be all SOL - and none of them are. In fact, all are thriving.

7 Likes
18

I realize you’re talking about LACs, but Georgetown students tend to do or try to do internships during the school year

love winter activities; the access to skiing but also less winter stuff like hiking definitely was a factor for Midd

I’ll probably do at least one of my sports either way but it’d just be easier access at Midd

Thanks for the help!

2 Likes
19

glad to hear it’s not a huge thing though, based off what you and others have said

fair point

thanks for your help!

1 Like
20

This is patently false.

3 Likes