GF here for spring break. Which bedroom?

Pizzagirl · February 23, 2012, 11:33am

I don’t know what’s so hard to grasp about the fact that one might not have a moral issue with something but just simply not want to see it. I’m sure my (underage) kid pounds down a few beers, too - but he has enough class not to do so in front of me. I’m sure my kids tell filthy jokes among their friends, but they don’t tell me filthy jokes.

I hope you’re kidding. The only talks about sex I want to have with my kids are precisely in the context of “are you protected, etc.” (and as an ob-gyn’s wife, I’m fully on board with the importance of those discussions). But I’m not having discussions with them about sex * in the context of a given person that they might be seeing / dating.* There is a world of difference between “So, as you go off to school, make sure you are protected, etc.” and inquiring about whether they are actually sleeping with Bob or Mary that they’ve been dating.

Again, good grief. It’s not that it’s shameful. It’s that it’s PRIVATE. Don’t you see the difference?

Pizzagirl · February 23, 2012, 11:35am

In college? No. After college, if they were already living with the person? Sure. And yes, there’s a distinction. Just like there was a distinction when my high school boyfriend’s mother wanted to ask my parents if I could spend the night - uh, no, inappropriate. Yes, age has a lot to do with appropriateness. Look, I finally had to convince my 92 yo grandmother that it was ok for her to share a bedroom with her gentleman friend when I came and spent the night :-)

Hunt · February 23, 2012, 11:37am

One note: I don’t believe that very many kids in college really have a “committed long-term relationship.” That’s another reason why I make a distinction between what they’re up to in college, and what the situation would be if they are living with somebody once they are in the working world.
And if I do, in fact, think that having sex before marriage is wrong, and therefore shameful, how should my kids behave on a visit if (a) they don’t agree with me or (b) they do agree with me, but are doing it anyway?

limabeans · February 23, 2012, 11:48am

Shawbridge, thanks for all the responses this thread has gotten. I’m not surprised there are lots of different ways of looking at this issue. Some of it has a lot to do with the make-up of everyone’s family: the sex and ages of the kids at home, religion, as well as the viewpoint of the poster, and even the house/apartment itself.

For awhile, I thought Hunt was being funny when s/he posted I think they should forego sex for a week. It’s good practice for marriage. I thought that post meant you stopped having sex when you got married. :)

In reality, I have no problem talking with my son about which room. In fact, he even brought it up. And I don’t think my DH has any issues either. When I told him son’s GF was visiting, his response was simply, “Great!” I think I might feel differently if this was a new romance, but it isn’t. I might even feel differently if son was a daughter, but nope. My other kids are guys also, and older. Truth is, I’m happy she wants to visit and I will discuss this topic with DS to make sure she’s comfortable. DS is a very easy-going kid and a good listener, so I’m betting sharing his bedroom would be a comfort to her anyway.

I brought up this topic to get different POVs. Oh how “they” change when kids go away to college!

romanigypsyeyes · February 23, 2012, 11:53am

shaw, I don’t share the sentiments of the majority of posters, neither do my parents or my boyfriend’s parents, but I do understand where they’re coming from. Their house, their rules. A large number of Americans see sex before marriage as immoral. I’m not religious so I don’t get it, but they do and that’s all that matters. I also don’t understand the whole wanting people to live apart until they’re married as many people are putting off marriage. But they get it, and that’s what matters. As long as they respect their adult child’s wishes outside of the parent’s home and off the parent’s dime then children should respect their parents’ wishes regarding sleep arrangements while they’re in their parents’ home.

Again, the only thing I’ve thought was “weird” in this thread was the phone call from one mother to another making sure that her 21 year old daughter wasn’t doing something. You gotta cut the string sometime. That’s just weird IMO.

Hunt · February 23, 2012, 11:58am

Er…well…you don’t stop entirely. Hopefully. As long as the wife doesn’t read this.

limabeans · February 23, 2012, 12:06pm

Here’s a really good magazine article about this topic. I hope you all read it and then add your feedback here. After reading your post, Pizzagirl, I’d be interested to hear if this changed your mind about wanting to have a “real” conversation about sex that goes beyond the protection aspect.

<a href=“Teaching Good Sex - The New York Times”>Teaching Good Sex - The New York Times;

Hunt, about that long-term relationship question: at what point do I determine it is long-term? My own best friend knew her relationship was long term within the first few hours and they’ve been married for nearly 30 years. My brother also dated his college sweetheart and you’d think he’s still that teenager-in-love. ETA: Hunt… lol

reddoor · February 23, 2012, 12:08pm

Shawbridge, it is about boundaries and respect. Thinking, knowing, believing, discussing anyone else’s sexual relationship is impolite and a boundary issue for parents. Offering any house guest a bed of their own, especially someone unfamiliar to you, is just good manners. I don’t find sexual relations before marriage immoral, however if I hardly knew the girl I wouldn’t want her to feel uncomfortable. I would treat her formally, with good manners, welcome her openly into our home and get to know her. Anything else would be presumption to me.

dreaming92 · February 23, 2012, 12:10pm

when I first stayed at my boyfriend’s and when he first stayed at mine, there was no discussion. when it was bedtime, we went to bed wherever we wanted and there were no questions asked. we have always shared a room.

also, there is no obligation for the parents to ‘provide a bed’. when my friends have come to stay at my house, not only have they always stayed in my room, i have also been the one responsible for getting out the futon and finding clean sheets, pillowcases, blankets and towels for them.

romanigypsyeyes · February 23, 2012, 12:18pm

No. To him, good manners is letting the children do what they want.

My parents don’t strive to be the “cool” parents. They just have no problem with sex before marriage (heck, my mom was pregnant with me when they got married). They have different values than you and that doesn’t mean they’re trying to be the “cool” parent.

reddoor · February 23, 2012, 12:28pm

Sorry, romanigypsyeyes, but “letting the children do what they want” is pretty much the definition of trying too much to be a cool parent.

romanigypsyeyes · February 23, 2012, 12:37pm

I meant adult children picking their sleeping arrangements. And I disagree, just different morals.

romanigypsyeyes · February 23, 2012, 12:42pm

If you don’t see anything wrong with unmarried people sharing a bed, and therefore let your adult child and his or her SO share a bed, I can’t fathom how you’re doing it just to be the cool parent. Or is not having a problem with it the “cool” part? Because, again, many people don’t have a problem with it.

Pizzagirl · February 23, 2012, 12:43pm

It is possible NOT TO HAVE A MORAL ISSUE with your college age student having sex with a (reasonably committed) bf / gf AND, simultaneously, not want to put them in the same room. Just like I don’t have a moral issue with my underage children having a few beers on campus or trying pot, but they don’t need to come out of their bedrooms with beer cans or joints in hand.

There’s such a thing as decorum. Here’s an example: I can certainly be undressed in the same room with another woman - we all have the same parts - but if I’m undressing in a room with another woman, I’ll typically turn around. Not because I’m “ashamed” or it’s “shameful” - but there’s simply no need to be all in-your-face over things.

I can get undressed in the same room as my mother, for example, and I can get undressed in the same room as my husband (obviously). But if my husband and mother were both in a room with me, I wouldn’t start to get undressed. It would be odd to be naked in front of my husband when I’m also in front of my mother. That’s the difference here. Having the bf/gf be obviously in the same room has that same feel to it - it’s fine, there’s nothing to object to, but do I need to be on top of this? No.

mathmom · February 23, 2012, 12:45pm

I read that article when it first came out. I think it’s important that kids know that there is more to sex than just the act and that emotions get all tangled up in it. But I slept with guys before I got married. I lived with my sophomore year boyfriend one summer and I lived with my husband for seven years before we got married (though for four of those years we were mostly on opposite coasts.) So if I have my kids sleep with their significant others, I have no moral issues with it. I do think sex should be part of a loving relationship. It hasn’t come up yet, but most of my friends and relatives have come to a point where they felt comfortable having the kid’s significant other officially in the same room as their child. I imagine I would too. It’s not to be cool - it’s what reflects my values.

I absolutely think it’s fine for parents who are not comfortable with it, to have either the DADT policy or the not under my roof policy.

One of the things that I think is amusing at our local Y is that the 80 year old women are far less prudish then the 16 year old girls. But then my ideas about nudity were somewhat altered by my years of nude sunbathing in the equivalent of Central Park in Munich. :)

shawbridge · February 23, 2012, 12:48pm

Hunt, if you think it is immoral, you can be and undoubtedly have been quite clear and explicit about that. That’s a value judgement and while I feel differently about it, I completely respect your view and your right to it and am not challenging that. If I were in the position of your kids and you’d clearly communicated my views to me, I wouldn’t ask to sleep together because of your moral view, even if I disagreed. I might raise the moral issue with you in a discussion but I would not seek to alter behavior without your agreement. I have complete respect for Hunt’s position and approach.

On the other hand, I don’t get the argument that it’s not immoral but that we should ignore things/engage in DADT because sex or talking about it is icky, awkward, embarrassing (or private). I think those who would not tell their kids that premarital sex in the context of a long-term relationship is immoral but merely don’t want to deal with it because it is awkward, icky, etc., what message are you sending to your kids about what a healthy adult relationship is and about sex? Do you want them to see sex as awkward, icky, etc.? Do you think the DADT approach at best sends a message that there is something not right about it or that it is something that we ought to hide? I do. That’s not the message I want to send. I want to send the message that in the context of a loving adult relationship, sex is a non-shameful, in fact special part of things and is not icky, embarrassing, awkward, etc. I don’t anticipate ever having a conversation about the specifics of anyone’s relationship but I want to be careful about not sending the other message, which is implied by DADT and the other things people have described.

So, Pizzagirl, in response to your question, I understand that even though you wouldn’t argue that the behavior is immoral, you don’t want to see evidence of a sexual relationship. No issue there. My question was if it is not immoral, what is it that causes you not to want to know about it? Of course, the specifics of their sexual behavior is private, but the fact that they were sleeping in the same bed just like you know they do at school? That’s private? I am not sure that the message some of the people are implicitly sending, “It’s OK if you guys sneak around to have sex and I know/believe you are doing that but I don’t want to know about that stuff because it is awkward, embarrassing, …” is the best message to send. The kids read either “She thinks it is immoral” or “It is icky, awkward, shameful so even though I am doing it I had better hide it.” [I’m sure you’ll tell me that these mature kids will know how to decode a more sensitive, thoughtful message, but I’m skeptical.]

romani, I also thought Hunt’s message was that a joke about married couples not having sex. I’m not sure now. I also understand not wanting to do things that makes the parents uncomfortable, but I ask why the behavior in question would make parents who don’t think premarital sex is immoral feel such discomfort and further question the message that is sent buy the DADT approach. I’m not trying to get everyone to agree with me, but it does feel like there are a lot of deeply held but unexamined assumptions, and sometimes unexamined assumptions spread from parent to child unwittingly.

Hanna · February 23, 2012, 12:53pm

In my parents’ house, the college kid decides where his/her guest sleeps, whether the guest is a romantic partner or not. I don’t remember this ever being a question – both my boyfriend and my best friend shared my room when they (separately) visited. I had a physical relationship with one and not the other, so I don’t think that sharing the room announced to the world that we were physically intimate. (I was at Bryn Mawr at the time, where the gender of one’s guest didn’t carry any information about whether the guest was platonic or not.) My parents felt quite strongly that the sleeping arrangements were none of their business.

I’m the youngest sibling, so I’m the product of whatever effects this system had on my psyche when my older sisters brought their college friends home and shared a room. The main impact, as far as I can tell, is that I have to work hard to empathize with others’ deep opposition to unmarried sharing. To me, it carries no emotional weight at all.

poetgrl · February 23, 2012, 12:53pm

The taboo against this arises from the incest taboo.

Getting too far into your kid’s sex life is a bit much, imho. I was raised by hippies. I can tell you that “freedom” thing has it’s whole own uncomfortable-ness to it. So, there is such a thing as getting too wierd about it, either way, frankly.

As for my house? I would never assume anyone wanted to sleep in the same room with anyone else. but, I wouldn’t go patrol the hall at night, either.

To each his own.

Hunt · February 23, 2012, 1:10pm

Pizzagirl is describing a concept that we used to call “modesty.” I haven’t heard anybody mention it for a long time, but I agree that it’s why you can undress in front of (say) your same-sex child and your spouse separately, but not at the same time. I think it’s also why some of us don’t care to see our children (or parents, for that matter) in erotic situations. It’s not that those things are shameful, exactly. It’s that they are private–or maybe exclusive is really the word.

cartera45 · February 23, 2012, 1:13pm

My D would just assume they’re sleeping in separate rooms but if she asked, I’d say I prefer they had separate rooms. Why? Just because I prefer it that way. I wouldn’t or don’t feel any need to explain it or analyze it any further than that.

GF here for spring break. Which bedroom?

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