<p>Well, what about the person who is married to someone who doesn’t want to do his/her share of the work in keeping the relationship going? Is that partner’s reason for wanting to separate honorable? When I hear about a couple separating after years of marriage, I’m sorry it didn’t work out, and I mentally wish them well - as I do the Gores. Whether their reasons are honorable isn’t really my call.</p>
<p>I would not want my daughter saddled for life with the kind of guy who’d leave her when she was pregnant, or in case of health problems for the baby. Compel him to stay? For what? There are worse things than divorce.</p>
<p>Don’t want to be confrontational, mom2college, but if it is “till death do us part”, then really any reason for divorce should be null. </p>
<p>Whether it is abuse or emotional neglect or having an affair aren’t good reasons for ending a marriage either. You married your partner. Now suck it up. Until you die. </p>
<p>As I have said, I am pretty lucky with the guy that I met. I can’t envision what life would be like without him. But I couldn’t say that it is the same for every married couple.</p>
<p>My sister got married in her forties - first time marriage for her. Her idea of a marriage was a companion who shared her interests. He doesn’t see it the same way. He has cancelled on vacations at the last minute citing work obligations. They may be legit, but after having done this to her a dozen times in less than 10 years, it is about priorities. His aren’t hers. </p>
<p>She thinks that divorce is wrong, but she is profoundly unhappy. So is he. He seems clueless, and often says things to her family and friends that are totally inappropriate, expressing contempt for her, at times. At this point in the game, she would be better off without him. But she takes vows seriously, as most married couples, do. These two shouldn’t be married. They would absolutely be better off apart. Even at their wedding, the pastor made a comment about how he saw problems ahead. It was an odd comment at the time, now I have to wonder what was said or observed by the pastor during marital counseling. </p>
<p>Still 50% of marriages end in divorce. It is hard work and some marriages crumble working hard at fixing the problems. Other problems are too big to deal with. People have baggage that complicates relationships. </p>
<p>Nobody wants a couple to get divorced, but people make tons of life choices that we may agree with, all the time. I think it’s fair to be sad when a marriage crumbles. But I would wager that there is more sadness for the couple while they are deciding that their marriage is unrecoverable, than for those that are on the outside looking in.</p>
<p>As someone who has been dating for a few years, I’ve encountered several men who were emotionally clueless. I’m sure men encounter the same. Often when I meet the parents and sibs it becomes clear where it came from. </p>
<p>They don’t get that an oft canceled vacation boils down to much more than the vacation.</p>
<p>One guy I dated, a very intelligent, successful guy had a wife who left him saying he had paid no attention to her emotional needs over 20 odd years. He thought he had. Over lunch one day he told me the story of a friend. The friend had trained 9 months for an athletic event. On the day of the event, his wife’s parent died. It was his opinion that he should not have left the event that day and that she should have understood the event was important to him and had him come the next day. He was also into the sport…</p>
<p>Emotionally clueless. Beyond clueless to tell me the story. Over a few months the cluelessness was shown in many ways. Yet I can totally understand how his ex would not have recognized this in her early 20s.</p>
<p>Oh, a contract…hmm, isn’t that what Tom Cruise has with Katie Holmes?</p>
<p>I hope that we all go into every marriage with the attitude that it is for life. That marriage is a good thing, and an awful lot of work, at the same time, and that it is worth it. For some, marriage won’t last. Which is too bad. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, the contract idea would have most men running for the door far faster than women. Especially with the hormonal surges accompanying the birthing of the babies. Just sayin. ;)</p>
<p>What if the criteria is “I am severely unhappy” - period? No desire for a new fun romance, just don’t want to be unhappy all the time? So the spouse doesn’t cheat, isn’t abusive, or a drug addict…she’s just horribly negative every minute of the day? Or he’s the biggest jerk anybody knows? Is it really God’s plan for them to stay together until one of them dies? </p>
<p>There is a couple at my church where the wife was horribly negative…there wasn’t a positive thing that ever came out of her mouth. I could tell that in her youth she was a buxom beauty, and I assume that was what attracted the husband. They divorced about a year ago, after maybe 25 years of marriage. I was so happy that the husband no longer has to deal with her extreme negativity every day of his life. How terrible is that? I was hoping a couple at church would break up!</p>
<p>The other couple was also from church. She was a long suffering saint. He is a HUGE jerk, hothead, hasn’t worked in years, accused her of keeping a messy house while she went off to work and he sat at home. Well, the marriage did last until death, because she died of a stroke at the age of 51.</p>
<p>Seems odd to say this union failed. Suppose divorce implies failure, but 40 years?? After being together forty years, raising several children and spending all those years together in public service… Surely there’s a modicum of success here…</p>
<p>Lol, no flower child here but I really do believe in not settling for mediocrity in any area of life and I know that real and active love is a key root of happiness.</p>
<p>There is a couple at my church where the wife was horribly negative…there wasn’t a positive thing that ever came out of her mouth. I could tell that in her youth she was a buxom beauty, and I assume that was what attracted the husband.</p>
<p>When you pick your wife based on the fact that she’s a buxom beauty, then there’s the mistake. She was probably horribly negative while they were dating, but he was too busy thinking every guy was envious of him and looking at her bod to really care.</p>
<p>*She was a long suffering saint. He is a HUGE jerk, hothead, hasn’t worked in years, accused her of keeping a messy house while she went off to work and he sat at home. *</p>
<p>Again, I find it hard to believe that some of this wasn’t evident before marriage. Someone doesn’t become a “hot-headed jerk” at age 40, they’ve been that way their whole lives. And, it should be pretty obvious if a guy who doesn’t have a work ethic.</p>
<p>What exactly is your point? So if a man or woman knows going in about certain character flaws before the marriage it’s too bad later on if they decide they can’t take it anymore? </p>
<p>It probably makes no sense to most of us, but I’ve lost track of the times I’ve seen a Dr. Phil or an Oprah or whoever question an unhappy wife or husband about this very thing-it’s amazing how many times a supposedly intelligent human being says “I knew about his/her____________, but I thought after we got married, that would change.” It seems like the most stupid comment possible, but apparently this ridiculous notion is quite common. It would be better if people would come to their senses before they married, but lacking that, I’d say better late than never.</p>
<p>*Again, I find it hard to believe that some of this wasn’t evident before marriage. Someone doesn’t become a “hot-headed jerk” at age 40, they’ve been that way their whole lives. And, it should be pretty obvious if a guy who doesn’t have a work ethic.</p>
<p>What exactly is your point? So if a man or woman knows going in about certain character flaws before the marriage it’s too bad later on if they decide they can’t take it anymore? *</p>
<p>My point is that if your dating partner has such SERIOUS character flaws, and if you want to avoid divorce, then you don’t marry that person. Any serious character flaw that is evident before marriage, will certainly seem like 10 times worse after marriage. </p>
<p>If you can’t “change” your partner’s SERIOUS character flaws during the courtship (and courtships these days last years), then only someone in complete denial would think he/she could change it later.</p>
<p>mom2kids,
Life circumstances can change, though – I’m not sure one can reliably foresee how someone will handle that.</p>
<p>Someone can be legitimately viewed as triumphing over a terrible childhood and extremely unstable home life, a la pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps to get an education, develop loving relationships and maintaining a successful career.</p>
<p>It may not be until much later, when kids have activities and different opinions, a spouse’s career path changes, a family member develops a serious illness – that one finds out the REAL price of pulling up the bootstraps – the deep-seated fear that one is one missing can opener or forgotten book away from disaster, and that manifests as control.</p>
<p>It’s no way to live, for the person involved or for the family.</p>
<p>SamuraiLandshark – Jewish marriages have contracts. It’s a document called a ketubah and is signed just before the actual ceremony.</p>
<p>What about when one half of the couple refuses to try to work out differences? What about when one half is fine the way things are and the other person is miserable? I agree with you – couples “ought” to choose to work out their differences. But sometimes it’s more than differences. There can be cruelty in a marriage that is not necessarily overt abuse that would put a person in jail. What about the marriage (and I have seen marriages like this) where one spouse lets the other spouse know they are no longer attracted to her or him and decides it no longer needs to be a sexual relationship, regardless of what their partner wants? What about a spouse who just withdraws and checks out once the kids are grown? Or what about the couple who chooses to work it out but waits until there are so many hurts and disappointments piled up that all goodwill is exhausted. </p>
<p>I’m a marriage therapist. We’re not miracle workers. If a couple waits to get help until all goodwill is exhausted, until they can no longer stand the person, the likelihood that counseling will save the day is not that high. At a certain point, the person in the marriage who has been fighting for the marriage and who may have cared deeply, just gives up and wants out. I’ve seen this many times. If you wait to go to a doctor until you are in end-stage cancer, the prognosis is not great. If you wait until your partner desperately wants out, it’s going to be very tough for counseling to save the day. So when I hear or read about long-term marriages ending, I think it’s something along these lines. Someone finally hit their limit of how unloved they could tolerate feeling and, often, that person was the person carrying too much of the relationship on their shoulders. Of course, none of that may be the case with the Gores. Also, lots of couples stay married for a long time because of their kids and when they realize that their kids are truly grown and independent, they decide that they want more from a marriage than what they have. I would suspect that scenario more for the Gores but, of course, have no idea.</p>
<p>There is a big difference between “I’m just not happy anymore” and being desperately unhappy. I personally think not being happy anymore is an immature reason because no one is happy all the time with another person, but being desperately unhappy for a long time – I have a lot more trouble judging someone who leaves for that reason.</p>
<p>I have always been suspicious about John Edwards and Al Gore real trustworthiness, long before the scandals…
Why? Just an instinct, observing the verbal and non-verbal communication.
Then the scandals surged…Should we the People be happy they were not elected to higher political positions? Yes, definitely!
Not exactly, remember Ms. Edwards’s story–she knew about her H “affairs” and still stay with him for a while for a variety of reasons: "Elizabeth Edwards stayed with her cheating hubby because she needs him and “really believes he needs me” too, she said today. “I only knew about a single night, a single moment of weakness,” she said. "</p>
<p>Appearances…are important, sure until the media discovers those little secrets.</p>
<p>Look the picture of Al Gore’s effusive kiss: It translates to “look people how much I love my Wife” [guilty conscience, I will say…].
Now look at Tipper hands, open like a claw, terrified hand: translating to “I know what you have done, enough with the show! Theatrical?.. not so much.</p>
</p>