<p>Mom, you need some help for your psychological issues but yet you choose to believe that your children are the ones with the issues. Please seek professional help for yourself. If you want to help your kids, you need to sort out your own demons with a professional.</p>
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<p>Stop giving them so much. Stop insisting they take what you give them. Stop trying to rectify the problems in your own childhood and with your own family through them. And please, heed the suggestions of others and seek counseling for yourself.</p>
<p>electronblue and nysmile, it is posts like this that drove me away for months. Who are any of you to diagnose me? And this is how you treat someone who comes here for parenting advice? </p>
<p>I have some advice. If you are not here because you actually care to help me, and/or just want to uspet me, then do not post. </p>
<p>To the one who referred to my first posts about my daughter months ago — I honestly doubt that either of you are female. Either that, or you have your own issues regarding parental concern over the reproductive health of their children. Because if you were, you’d understand that one issue is that reproductive treatment is a big deal. Unplanned pregnancy is a big deal. It can be for a 17 year old virgin to have to deal with an imminent 1st medical exam. There are a lot of women who do not like them, and I was originally told that you should be 18, but my daughter has been now told 21 is ok if not sexually active. Another issue is the concern of having an exam and/or hormonal birth control dispensed by a college N.P., as I did. An N.P. gave me BCP that gave me heart palpitations. I also had an IUD inserted with the string too short, which resulted in a torturous experience when I got pregnant on it, and the could not retrieve the string. Living in a co-ed dorm can be unsafe and a big deal. Or are all of those anti-rape task forces and warnings a load of bull? My daughter doesn’t even know what to look for, because she’s never dated. So if you call those concerns obsessive, I don’t care. My daughter knows that she can talk to me about her fears without being ridiculed or called nuts, and what she thinks is all that really matters.</p>
<p>I do take offense being called obsessive when I come to strangers for help in helping my children make decisions. Accuracy is very important to me, so I tried to be accurate. If I were obsessive, I’d just make decisions for my kids. I wouldn’t care about their input. But when my kids are indecisive and floundering and opinions are conflicted, I have to turn somewhere. </p>
<p>My kids decided all of their own activities. I paid for them, registered them, and drove them. Obsessive?</p>
<p>I have to be the one to guide them (and pay for) the direction they take. Should I just hand over the money?</p>
<p>I have to be able to advise them on conflicts between the activities. Or does the need for lose feet in tap vs. strong ankles in ballet not matter? Oops, is that obsessive to try to be accurate in conveying information to my son?</p>
<p>The fact that my son is a boy in dance creates its own problems because of societal views. It’s my job as a parent to assist him in dealing with that. He made his desire to continue, but to be around other boys clear. I knew of no other way but to check out other places. Abnormal? Obsessive? A sense of urgency regarding age was presented by someone, and I felt that it needed looking into. Not wise?</p>
<p>My son said that he wanted to play the bassoon and I tried to make that opportunity available. If I had $3000 to buy a mini-bassoon, it would have happened. If we lived in England where they are readily available in schools, or even in another school district where they are, this would be a non-issue. But we don’t, so I did what I could within our means to get him one. I actually called a shop asking for an oboe, mentioned that my son really wanted to play bassoon, but was too young. And this man got excited and urged me to bring him in, suggested the modification, etc… Even since then, if one reads, they will know that I’ve questioned the wisdom of this.</p>
<p>I now came on her to question whether I should allow him to go through with the bassoon right now at all, to even give him the chance, because of his propensity to quit.</p>
<p>The propensity to quit, from what I’ve googled, is quite common. Are all of these parents obsessed? Seems to me I have 2 choices. Don’t do anything for him right away and make him stick to commitments, as suggested. Or do not listen to him at all, tell him that if he wants any of this stuff, he can wait until he can get a summer job, which is what my parents did to me.</p>
<p>I said way more than I had to in an effort to try to be honest and understand my own motives and fears. But when people come on here like electronblue and nysmile and just say inflammatory comments, it only makes me feel even more that I can’t trust people.</p>
<p>I find it hard to believe that your reason for posting is simply to get input on whether or not to allow your son to take up the bassoon. Any parent should be able to decide this without input from others. I’m sorry if you took offense to the suggestion that you get some counseling for yourself. I never diagnosed you. I did suggest going to a professional for that. Your post does imply that you could benefit from discussing your issues with a person better trained to help you.</p>
<p>It’s normal for 9 year olds to change their minds frequently. As for sticking to something, our rule was once you start a team thing, you owe it to the team to finish the season. </p>
<p>I would never consider spending $3000 for an instrument or piece of equipment for a 9 year old that they might not stick with. What does he like about the bassoon? Has he ever seen a real one or tried to play it? It is NOT common for kids in the US to play the bassoon at that age - most elementary schools don’t even have them to borrow. Start him on a RENTED clarinet or oboe or saxophone. If he’s still playing in 3 years, look into RENTING a bassoon. Or use the school’s bassoon, by the time he gets to high school they’ll have one. You could spend $3000, and he tries it twice and it’s “hard” so he changes his mind. That would NOT be HIS fault - he’s 9, he’s not supposed to think very far ahead. YOU are the adult - it’s up to you to think ahead and figure out if buying a bassoon is a good investment. Common sense would tell you: no.</p>
<p>BTW, I can’t read posts that are a half-page long, and I doubt anyone else can either. We ARE trying to give you the help you are asking for. But the help we are offering is our advice - you need to talk to someone about why you’re so obsessed/over-involved with every detail of your kids lives, and why you’re worried about your son being “behind” for a professional career when he’s not even out of elementary school.</p>
<p>I am not offended by those who suggested therapy, I’d likely do the same for someone with parent/child issues. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I am offended by posts that do not speak to me directly, but rather to the “other people in the room”, such as this:</p>
<p>“If memory serves, whatapainthisis posted about obsessive issues with her daughter’s potential sexuality a while back. As others have stated, this isn’t about the kids. Mom needs help beyond the scope of messageboard advice.”</p>
<p>What I have to say to this, this is the same as entering a conversation between me and other people, and then you directing your opinion of me to the others as if I am not in the room. That’s offensive, and don’t insult my intelligence and tell me that isn’t what you did.</p>
<p>I was offended by NYSmile because you made a blanket statement that the issues are mine, and not my childrens, as if my children are doing nothing at all to be problematic. I don’t think that I am being a hypercritical mother. </p>
<p>It is very frustrating to know the level of info to give. I mean, I mentioned that a book suggested a helmet for my headbanging daughter. I mentioned that I put her in a car seat, strapped her in, and she got out. She opened her door and walked out of her room. Now I honestly do not recall if I tried a helmet, but logically speaking, if she could disconnect a carseat, she could disengage a child helmet. My problem at the time was that time out was not working, as an example of my experience with parenting books. </p>
<p>Children simply are not parts that can be formfitted like on an assembly line, and that’s where asking real parents about their own experiences help. If this were not the case, people would not blog or visit forums. It is really unfair when people come for help, and then they are ganged up on. At worst this is a bully, and at best, it really begs the question of what it is in YOUR life that causes you to respond in a way that is not helpful. </p>
<p>One thing that people do not realize is that it is very difficult to find a good therapist, but a bad one can really harm. My husband had cancer, and the treatment has caused personality changes that affect his communication skills. It’s also caused him to go through what is called “andropause”, or sort of a “mid-life crisis”. I actually think that seeing a marital therapist would be beneficial. My concern there is that there is an abundance of info on the net that going to a therapist actually caused a divorce. I’m not making this up, it’s there. </p>
<p>Most of the time, people will say “get therapist recommendations”. From who? I don’t go to church. I am a self-employed professional without employees. On one side of my family, I come from an upbringing where seeing a therapist “was just not done”. On the other side, those who’ve seen therapists are severely impaired and not even worth asking. I’ve googled therapist reviews for my area, did not find anything. </p>
<p>Maybe I will, but the reality is that talking about these things in this forum helps me a lot. There are some people who seemed to really care about me who have PM’d me, and for that, I thank those people. </p>
<p>As to my son, I am just not sure what these issues are exactly. </p>
<p>I know that my son wanted to play bassoon, but knew zip about how to make that happen. I originally posted to ask advice on the best starter instrument, either clarinet or oboe, because I got conflicting advice in “real life”. I trust the intelligence of the people here. But I guess now the issue is whether he deserves this opportunity at this age when he’s displayed fickle behavior. </p>
<p>He’s still willing to dance. I have no experience with the progression of a dancer and what I should or should not be doing. I had one person telling me that what I had been doing was “not ballet” and pushing for a heavier investment. I have an existing situation that worked for my son, except for the lack of boys. I can’t control that studio’s lack of boys, unless I feel like offering to be their marketing executive.</p>
<p>He’s apparently still willing to be in gymnastics. He does his best when he is there. Sometimes I watch at the window, and when he sees me, he is working hard. And when he sees me, he smiles. I asked the coach after the 1st incident if he had any problems with my son’s attitude, and he said “He’s a gem”. But what I’ve seen and heard of his interactions with other children concerns me. I can’t just tell him to “walk away”. He must assist/be assisted by these same children in handstands and work as a team. </p>
<p>I do agree with one of the posters, I believe calmom, who said to stop doing things for them. I’m not sure how to do that while also meeting the goals of ensuring adequate activities. My son has suggested “no activities” at times because he would spend all of his time watching TV. I can tell him “You will do some kind of physical activity”, but he can passively-aggressively make this not easy for me by refusing to discuss what activities he likes/does not like, and why. Putting me in the position of choosing for him, then looking like an overbearing parent. Or I choose nothing, say the hell with it, and when his cardiologist asks “what happened” when he becomes a skeleton again, I can say that “I just wanted him to be happy”. </p>
<p>I think what I am going to do is the following:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I am going to take him to a music store and pay for an hour with someone who plays both oboe and clarinet. Have him tested on both. Accept the recommendation. Call the bassoon man and tell him that I appreciate his efforts, but I do not think that my son is ready for the responsibility.</p></li>
<li><p>I am going to do nothing about the gymnastics other than send him for his required 4 weeks. Tell my son that if he has problems with other kids, take it to the coach. If he is blatantly nasty to other kids himself, I feel that he should be disciplined, but I am not sure how.</p></li>
<li><p>I am going to take him to visit one other studio that supposedly has boys but is more like where he was going. They even have the same coffee shop nearby where we shared cocoa on break. I will also stop by his current studio to pick up his video. I may also take him to a performance where this professional man is supposed to be performing soon. I will then let him think over the next few weeks about what he wants to do, with the understanding that whichever he chooses will require a commitment for the year.</p></li>
<li><p>He has 3 violin lessons left. After that, we can continue lesson to lesson, but we do either have to rent or turn in the free violin. I don’t really know what to do if he does a last minute “Don’t take my violin away!” Risk a yearly rental fee being lost if he changes his mind the next week? What if he wants to play both the violin and the woodwind? I’m not sure how that would play out with the school instrument lessons. He wants to “perform” in the school band, he enjoyed my daughter’s concerts. But they do not have strings at all, and he wanted to try the violin, so we gave him that chance over the summer. I am concerned about him playing “conflicting” music. Again, I know zip about music.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>At the risk of sounding cold and callous, I would also like to recommend that you get some help in dealing with a number of your personal issues, related to your own past, as well as present parenting concerns. </p>
<p>I remember the advice given to you about bassoons for young children on the music board, and stand behind what was recommended. Do not buy an expensive instrument for a young boy, who has expressed only an “interest” in playing it. There is no reason for concern about missing the boat on “elite” level of activities with a nine year old. Maybe he should run around the neighborhood or have a less structured life of activities. Personally, I think gymnastics, music, dance is a lot for a nine year old boy, particularly if you are pushing him to a very high level. Let him simply enjoy the activity, regardless of his level of advancement. You are making each one of these concerns far more precious than they need to be. Kids who are nine should be having fun, dabbling in activities and seeing what interests them and what doesn’t, not trying to be on track for the Olympics or Carnegie Hall.</p>
<p>I was offended by NYSmile because you made a blanket statement that the issues are mine, and not my childrens, as if my children are doing nothing at all to be problematic. I don’t think that I am being a hypercritical mother.</p>
<p>I was not the only person to post the recommendation for you to seek out professional help regarding your own issues as well as any issues with your children. We are not professionals and it would be irresponsible for any of us on CC to diagnose. We respond based only on the information presented to us. Nothing here is meant to offend but to give insight on the possibility that your own childhood experiences may be contributing to the parenting style that you have been using with less than favorable results. It is not difficult to look in your local phone book to find a few telephone numbers of counselors or psychologists. However, it is difficult to actually make that first call. Try one, if you’re not comfortable with that one just try another. We do want you to be at peace with yourself and your children.</p>
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<p>Ask your son’s pediatrician or your own internist or family doctor to recommend a therapist. Posters on an anonymous message board are not able to adequately address the many issues you raise, and I think you are disclosing far too much personal information in a public forum. I would be deeply concerned about privacy. There are therapists out there who will help you work on your own issues with respect to parenting, and in turn you will see the results of your work in your relationships with your children. In the meantime, I highly recommend books by Faber and Mazlish, including “Liberated Parents, Liberated Children” and “How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk.”</p>
<p>I had a lousy childhood but yours was 100 times worse. My husband constantly jokes that he is paying now for all the things my father did not give us as I try to make my children’s lives the storybook life I wish I’d had. My kids too are kicking and flailing at the thought of working in the summer…they can kick and flail though. You are trying to be the best parent you can be…actually you are trying to be super parent. My kids each had one activity/sport they had to commit to per year; In the school term between academics and the activity/sport, I felt they needed down time to relax/play/watch tv as well…but each to his own. I would cut down on the commitments your son is expected to make and allow him some lying around time and you should have some “me” time for yourself too so that you are not 200% involved in making everyone’s life wonderful and ignoring your own.</p>
<p>If finding a therapist is overwhelming I suggest you might look into attending a few al-anon meetings. Not everyone there has an alcoholic in the family but most of us if we look do find some qualifying person in our present life or past.
Al-Anon can help you put some focus back on yourself. It might also help you detach with love from your children and help you come up with some boundaries with them that you can live with. Al Anon is free and available in almost every community. Try a few different meetings as they all are different.
As for activities. My thing with my kids for the growing up years was they had to do a sport. Even if it was just AYSO during the fall. I also pushed for a two year sport team committment in high school. They didn’t have to play the whole four years but I did feel like they needed to give it a shot. I also have a policy that if you start a sports season or anything that has other people depending on you they must complete it start to finish. The same is true if I have already made a monetary committment.
I think music, gymnastics and dance plus school is probably more then most 9 yr olds can handle unless each is just an hour a week. The music alone is a big time commitment if he is going to be required to practice in between lessons. Two instruments is in my opinion going overboard.
If your son is enjoying gymnastics and also dance let him continue. Look into finding a class with more boys. I think the intense ballet would be mistake. I think the seriousness will take the fun out of it. Also I doubt that teacher will promote him continuing gymnastics.As he gets older it will become clearer if he is willing to stick with it. If he continues with dance he will probably have to develop a thick skin. He is still young and his interests will continue to change. If he enjoys performing you might look into his trying a drama camp next summer. He might be able to combine his love of dance, costumes and performing. Another fun camp that he might enjoy if they have it in your area is circus camp.</p>
<p>I think the intense ballet would be mistake. I think the seriousness will take the fun out of it.</p>
<p>Defintely. My D took ballet at the PNB school to keep a friend company when she was 7 -9. Her pal, eventually became bored, but D stuck with it, even though I was a little concerned by the role modeling of the older girls- PNB liked their dancers very slender at the time & the girls would stand outside and smoke, to take the edge off their appetite. They also would grab their thighs and moan. :rolleyes:. When D was cast in the Nutcracker ( I admit I wouldn’t have let her audition if I thought she would get a part), I was dismayed, and even more so when I found out that committment to rehearsal meant missing afternoons of school, into the evening, starting in October.</p>
<p>I was so glad that I talked her out of it, particularly when that winter, it snowed so bad, that some of the dancers had to take hotel rooms in the city so that they wouldn’t miss a show.</p>
<p>This was her previous dance experience- whose philosophy I was more in tune with.
[Welcome</a> to Creative Dance Center](<a href=“http://www.creativedance.org/]Welcome”>http://www.creativedance.org/)</p>
<p>Plus it looked like the kids were having much more fun.</p>
<p>Maybe I missed this detail somewhere in the very long posts, but…it sounds like what your son originally wanted to do was take tap dance lessons. Why then is he enrolled in ballet, and why are you now debating whether to put him in an extremely rigorous ballet school?</p>
<p>The kid wanted to tap dance. Let him tap dance, and tell him that it’s contingent on him practicing the required amount and sticking with it for at least X amount of time (6 months or whatever seems reasonable to you). If he won’t stick with that bargain, then you don’t renew the lessons.</p>
<p>Stay out of the middle of typical 9-year-old social wrangling between him and the other children unless you feel that the situation is harmful or that your son is violating the rules/standards of behavior you have set for him. All these minor squabbles with other kids are part of learning how to get along with other people when Mom <em>isn’t</em> around.</p>
<p>Good luck–I know it’s never easy figuring out where to draw the lines with all these extra activities, especially ones that require a lot of chauffeuring and expensive lessons or equipment.</p>
<p>OP,</p>
<p>The issues you have with your children are likely the result of your parenting. Fortunately parenting can be learned, and a therapist can help you identify how your parenting leads to results you dislike, and identify changes you can make in your parenting to help you achieve results you like. It is possible for you and your children to have a healthy, respectful relationship wherein you appreciate each other, but you may have to learn how to do this and what you presently do or don’t do that prevents this.</p>
<p>^^^ I agree with this (dntw8up’s post).</p>
<p>OP, you seem to be trying to fix or avenge everything that happened in your life through your kids’ lives (eg, you feel D is ungrateful because YOU would have been so pleased to have had someone help you out in college). I ask you one simple question: Is it working? If not, please get the help many of us are ADVISING you to get (look at your title … you did ask for advice).</p>
<p>Please understand this … this is important … your kids will NOT “turn their back on me for a parenting mistake.” Parental abuse is not a “mistake.” You LOVE your children. You are truly trying your best. Every one of us reading this had parents who made mistakes, and every one of us reading this (who is a parent) is a parent who has made mistakes. People are not perfect, and becoming a parent is not going to somehow change that. What happened to you was wrong … but you are NOT doing that to your kids. Your mistakes are not going to result in kids turning away. However … you should definitely consider dealing with your own issues in order to keep from driving your kids away. They won’t stop loving you, but they might want to get away if they feel too micromanaged.</p>
<p>"Most of the time, people will say “get therapist recommendations”. From who? I don’t go to church. I am a self-employed professional without employees. On one side of my family, I come from an upbringing where seeing a therapist “was just not done”. On the other side, those who’ve seen therapists are severely impaired and not even worth asking. I’ve googled therapist reviews for my area, did not find anything. "</p>
<p>The fact that in your upbringing, seeing a therapist was “not done” is irrelevant (and indicative of how you let your past influence you). You can ask your family physician for therapist recommendations.</p>
<p>You also need to stop worrying about whether you will “miss the boat” on your child’s talents. We all could have been talented in areas that our parents didn’t pursue – maybe they didn’t know any different, didn’t have money, didn’t think to enroll us in classes, whatever. So what? It’s not the end of the world. Yeah, I’m one of those whose parents let me quit music lessons and in hindsight I wish they’d made me stay with it. Again, so what? If I wanted to play today, nothing stops me from taking lessons. It’s not that big of a deal. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>ok…I’ll bite. Currently this guy is in gymnastics, violin and soccer. Is he also the same kid who you were wondering regarding the bassoon? Personally, I think this is TOO MUCH for a nine year old. All of these things take time and commitment…adding dance to the mix would be overload, in my opinion.</p>
<p>DS took tap and jazz (ballet when he was 3 and 4 years old). He loved it and didn’t care a lick that he was the only boy or one of two boys. BUT when he started children’s choir, we told him he had to make a choice…choir or dance. Not both. They both involved huge commitments in time. He chose choir. </p>
<p>DD was in the same boat…when she joined the choir, she also gave up dance. Couldn’t really devote the time to both. </p>
<p>Both kids did one sport a year at school (note…not one per season, one per YEAR). </p>
<p>This nine year old needs some time to have fun too…you know…play outside after school with friends, that sort of thing. I would let him choose a couple of things, and encourage him to delve into those things for a while. Perhaps he’ll grow to like them if he’s not overwhelmed with too many activities. Bottom line, if he doesn’t like something after a year, he can switch to something else until HE finds the thing that piques his interest.</p>
<p>Back to the dance issue. Do you live in area where they offer Irish Dance since that is what initially caught his interest? My older daughter loved it; it was fast paced compared to ballet and jazz and the music is catchy.</p>
<p>My niece did not start dancing until 7 th grade and is a terrific dancer. Doors are not yet closed for him.</p>
<p>How many activities is too much really varies by kid. My younger daughter’s friend begs to do things 4 days a week, my older daughter was good at 3 days a week until 7th grade but my younger daughter is complete with 2 days and she needs to be home after school for at least 1 1/2 hours because school is over stimulating.</p>
<p>Often our culture thinks that if a kid enjoys doing something, the next step is doing more of it or competing at it. My older daughter is a terrific horse rider but never wanted to show. Riding was a mental health activity - good fun and relaxing. Competing would have killed it. She stopped gymnastics when she would have had to join the team. Loved gymnastics, but it was to be a fun thing, not something stressful. Put her on skis though and she was ready to race.</p>
<p>My good friend has a daughter with a similar heart condition. She has stayed very fit through dance and the cardiologists were thrilled. She is doing really well, but the fear of her getting sick again never leaves them. I don’t envy you the worry you live with.</p>
<p>Best wishes as you work through all of this.</p>
<p>I lost a sister when I was very young, which caused me to experience and internalize my parents’ terror and pain. I’ve brought that to my parenting, but thankfully, my older girls have some innate understanding and compassion and I haven’t made them crazy. which is not for lack of trying! My baby son had a very serious accident when he was four and was almost killed. It was quite dramatic and tapped something in my soul. I spent a long time buying him things and overlooking things that I never would and coddling him in a way that was outside my nature because I was afraid and guilty about the accident. I couldn’t sleep or do anything but, literally, hover over him. I walked behind him with my arms out to the side to protect him, everywhere we went. Let me tell you, parental fear and guilt are an ugly and toxic combination. Whatapain, you’ve got to figure out how to keep those things out of your relationship with your son because you are doing him no good, and because I guarantee he knows exactly how to work you to get/do what he wants. He needs you to be a consistent parent who sets reasonable boundaries for him – unbreakable boundaries. you have my deepest understanding and I wish you all the best. Definitely get someone to talk to so the fear and guilt don’t wash over your son. You need a safe place where you can freely and completely express how afraid you are that you’re going to lose him and that you haven’t/won’t/can’t be the parent you want to be. Then leave those feelings in that safe place.</p>
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Leave it to the coach to discipline your son for behavior at the gym – but be supportive of the coach’s efforts. (That is, don’t be the sort of mom who raises a fuss if your son gets upset about the discipline).</p>