Since my S24 was ultimately rejected by Yale I can’t claim to have unlocked the secret of Yale’s essays specifically. But generally speaking my advice to him was to really try to understand and answer the prompts the way they were written. And that seemed to have worked out pretty well overall.
So this is just my perspective, but I kinda think a lot of the strategic advice that basically amounts to claiming to know the hidden formulas is actually maybe not all that valuable. Like, maybe you can just really think about the prompt for a while, do some drafts, and then get a good light-touch editor to help you finalize.
I am not going to be a Yale apologist by any means, but I don’t think the Why Yale essay not actually asking for any student to reiterate [parts of] the Yale website is some sort of ‘trick’ per se.
Much like SAT questions often are a bit oblique, so are some of the pieces of highly rejective college admissions. Not everyone is going to knock their “Why Us?” essays out of the park, just like not everyone is going to kill it on standardized testing. It is a way of differentiating applicants.
I try to remind students that all parts of their college applications are about one thing - THEM.
I think that reminder can help students focus their responses for many supplemental essay questions, to any school. And to remind them that all the parts of their application are going to be read as one whole piece by admission officers. Telling students to consider their audience and how their audience will receive their application (as a whole, so cohesion helpful) seems like something they [hopefully] also were taught over and over again in their English classes.
I have no special insight into Yale’s decisions… but after many years of interviewing for Brown, I agree with Beebee that although none of us know the right answer, the wrong answer is clearly “cut and paste whatever you think is relevant from the website and hope that the Adcoms are impressed with your weak attempts at plagiarism/flattery”.
Many, many essays are very, very bad. I think kids should strive to have their essays be good or adequate. Just being “not very bad” is a win in my book.
Brown adcom’s do not need to reread the history of the New Curriculum (many were in diapers or not alive then, so it’s really irrelevant). They do not need to read about how Ruth Simmons was a pioneer in championing the needs of FGLI students-- not just financial aid, but in other forms of support.
A student wants to write about what those things will mean for HER and more importantly- WHY? Terrific. But the essay is not the right place to show off your cutting and pasting skills, and NOBODY needs an essay coach to tell them not to quote- verbatim but often without quotation marks- from a college’s own website or course catalogue.
The only reason to hire an essay coach is that your parents have money to burn and you are concerned about releasing toxic fumes from the ink into the environment as they burn money. For sure- hiring an essay coach has a smaller negative impact on the planet.
There are thousands of kids- not our generation’s Faulkner or Austen by any means- who can crank out an essay which sounds like it was written by a sincere 17 year old with a smidgen of an authentic idea or voice in it. That essay won’t be VERY bad and might in fact be VERY good or at least “good enough”.
Would some applicants’ honest answers be what Yale is looking for? For example, something like:
“I want to attend Yale because it is one of the most prestigious colleges, and would distinguish me from my high school classmates, too many of whom will attend my state flagship that anyone can get into. In addition, my career goal is to work in Wall Street investment banking or management consulting, for which Yale is one of the preferred colleges to recruit from.”
You would be surprised how many essays are a thinly varnished version of what you have written. Complete with statistics (taken directly from the college’s career services website) about the percentage of students who do X and not Y.
Kids can be honest in an essay without sounding like a jerk. “I want to go to Brown because it’s the arty/boho Ivy. I’m very boho. I mean-- I’m not a stoner or anything, but I was the first girl in my HS to dye her hair blue. So I’m totes creative, and a college with no graduation requirements is right up my alley. The other boho/arty kids in my HS want to go to RISD or some other art school. But I don’t. I crave intellectual engagement and therefore Brown is the perfect place for me. Not knocking RISD or anything. It’s a great college and all that. But it is filled with stoners and that’s totes not who I am. I am the only girl in my HS who doesn’t do edibles so when I say I’m not a stoner, you know I mean it.”
I see where that might be considered “honest” but I also see why Yale might say “we don’t feel the same way.”
May not be the right analogy but thinking of a marriage proposal- “I want to marry you because you are seen as a top 10 and marrying you will allow me to advance socially/politically/in my career”… might have been okay once, but now, can only imagine the receiver’s response
I have literally been on the receiving end of almost exactly this marriage proposal, except that they also added “and we are both very intelligent and will therefore have intelligent children.”
I was surprised, both that the person proposed, and that they laid it out this way! But I guess SOME people still make these sorts of proposals…
No. If there had been a smidgen or a sign that it was tongue in cheek it could have worked as parody. But there was no wink-wink to it. If you’re going to write in stereotypical teen tik-tok patois, you need to let the reader in on the joke.
So to be blunt, at that point it becomes an exercise in deceit.
Yale is pretty clear it doesn’t want to accept students who apply for those reasons, so you have to try to fake being someone else. And that is indeed tricky and stressful, including because they are surely doing their best to spot the fakes. But they don’t always succeed in spotting the fakes, so you have a chance.
You could also just not apply, but presumably if you do, it is because you are OK with faking your way in.
Of course there will also be mixed motive cases, and although to my knowledge they have not said this quite so explicitly, I suspect they are less concerned if you have a mix of both good and bad reasons (as they see things). So you can focus on the good and omit the bad, which is probably not so stressful.
But if you eliminate the bad and really have nothing both honest and good (by their standards) left to say? Then you are back to choosing between not applying and deceit.
I want to share how invaluable the “group think” advice on CC was as I helped S24 navigate his college application journey. I have spent a lot of time on this forum and after a year the general advice can seem like the same old stuff, over and over again. But based on my experience this year, most parents and kids navigate this process with only the help of over-extended school counselors and the USNWR Rankings.
Here is my list of “group think” that ended up being so critical for S24 as he navigated his applications. I hope CC keeps giving this advice to parents and kids who have just landed here, no matter how stale it seems to some of us.
There are a ton of amazing colleges out there - with amazing opportunities and cost options.
Seems obvious, but it is a revelation to most kids and parents.
Apply to a rolling admission school early - for S24 this was an acceptance to Pitt in late August!
S24 and I had never considered Pittsburgh, but it seemed like a great option and the acceptance made the process a lot more relaxed. I shared this strategy with quite a few parents (SoCal) who were not interested in Pitt, but ended up applying to ASU and University of Arizona. One kid that got shut out everywhere else is headed to ASU.
A safety is a school that you will be happy to attend and can afford. Seems obvious, but as many have pointed out, this can be very tricky to lock down. This is the one that just cannot be repeated enough. For S24, we kept visiting schools until we stumbled upon University of Denver due to advice#1 to look at lesser-known schools.
My kid embraced the advice of “fit over ranking.”
Alabama - I think it is great that this comes up again and again. It would not work for S24, but just like we had never considered University of Pittsburgh - most people starting the application process have never considered Alabama and it could be a great option for many.
PIQs are important so take them seriously, UC admission is unpredictable, and SDSU, SLO is not a safety for anyone.
I have learned so much here, and used that knowledge to help so many kids avoid heart ache this cycle. I want to encourage the amazing members of this forum to continue giving the basic advice again and again. The vast majority of people have not heard this critical information, and it can be life-changing advice.
Well said. I know some regular posters get upset at repetition - but we are not the audience. New folks are and I don’t know that there is a way to know who read what (in regards to previous posts). And some don’t like the guidance some give - and that’s ok. There’s lots of perspectives and hopefully those looking for advice do read something from someone that proves useful to them.
Thank you for your note - at least to me (even if not intended to me) - it’s why I continue to post.
It’s great your student had the pressure off early (Pitt) and not sure if they are going to ASU or Denver, but I wish them luck!!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts - I’m glad that our collective efforts proved helpful to you.
I didn’t read the whole thread but did read the reveal. The one school I am surprised at is Wisconsin. They have just been hard to predict in recent years and are a hard oos get. I do think we are all doing the best we can and many many families thank the ones that are active here when giving advice. You always get some wins /losses and that is life. IRL - and on cc sometimes I have to talk parents off the ledge so to speak. Their kids picked a great affordable school that is a fantastic fit then they get a late acceptance to X school perceived by only the parent of being a better more prestigious school. This just happened in real life yesterday. The parents thanked me perfusly, since the daughter mentally committed and is extremely excited about her pick (great school) plus it would be a financial strain on the parent if they picked this other school. Why as parents do we do this? Keeping up with the Joneses, I guess.
I would not say I was surprised, but definitely saw Wisconsin and Villanova (non-ED) as in the 45-60% range… needed to buy into the application beyond the grades.
My issue with repetition is not that posters seem wed to certain schools, it’s that many posters seem wed to certain schools regardless of the applicant. Interested in Classics? “ABCDEF U is fabulous!” Interested in Engineering? “ABCDEF U is fabulous!” Thinking about political science and internships?" “ABCDEF U is fabulous!” Dislike the Midwest and South and want to be in New England? “ABCDEF U is fabulous! Expand your horizons.”
And even worse: Want a robust LGBTQIA+ community? “ABCDEF U is fabulous!” Are you Black or Latino? “ABCDEF U is fabulous!” Jewish student concerned about the rise in antisemitism? “No worries. ABCDEF U is fabulous!”
Sometimes suggestions fail to account for the particular needs of certain groups of students and just respond as if everyone is a White, heterosexual, cisgender, Protestant who “will be fine any and everywhere.”
Agree. But posters seem to think they’ll be fine any and everywhere. That was part of my point. It seems to be the default approach. I should have put that phrase in quotation marks to highlight my sarcasm. (Went back and edited for clarity.)
