<p>Mom2. I was simply noting that in the majority of suicides, it is depression or bipolar disorder that was present, not necessarily a combination.</p>
<p>Oh, I agree. Those with Axis II PDs and depression who commit suicide often aren’t Bipolar (Axis I).</p>
<p>I agree with this statement from a previous post…</p>
<p>“What I’ve learned in recent years is that when we think that they are choosing a permenant solution for a temporary (and maybe no-big-deal) problem, we can’t really understand how they think.”</p>
<p>… but …I do feel that it is very important to talk about suicide as permanant …it might just save someone! </p>
<p>I think about this all the time. My aunt killed herself (paid cash at a motel far from her home, registered using a false name, took a bunch of pills and booze). I am not exactly sure of all her demons but I choose to remember her as a beautiful, kind and fun person. She is gone but holidays still happen. Her daughters have gone on to lead great lives.She missed one daughter’s wedding. She would now be a grandmother. Her husband remarried. Life goes on…</p>
<h1>*“What I’ve learned in recent years is that when we think that they are choosing a permenant solution for a temporary (and maybe no-big-deal) problem, we can’t really understand how they think.”</h1>
<p>… but …I do feel that it is very important to talk about suicide as permanant …it might just save someone! *</p>
<p>Oh I agree, but sometimes it’s like talking to a brick wall. The person in our social circle will talk to you about suicidal feelings, but he doesn’t want to believe that there can be light at the end of the tunnel. The problem, in this case, is that he’s been depressed for many years, so he thinks living will be just “more of the same.” </p>
<p>One of the most frustrating things is that he self-sabotages himself, and isn’t really open to stop doing that. For instance, he complains that his job hasn’t properly promoted him, yet he’s often late to work or calls in “sick” (depressed or negatively affected by drugs/alcohol). He also gets a “high” from doing “super work outs” to the point of exhaustion which results in being too tired/painful muscles for work the next day. Gently pointing out that he’s not been reliable at work only results in being accused of “blaming” him for his situation. Rather, he’d like to believe that this world is “$#!+!^& on him.” (his frequent mantra.) So, he thinks he needs to exit this world. </p>
<p>Yes, he’s in therapy, but from what he’s shared, his therapist mostly just listens and offers “comfort” but doesn’t confront as to how he’s contributing to the problem.</p>
<p>Or maybe it’s not that “he doesn’t want to believe” there’s light at the end of the tunnel, as you assert - maybe it’s that he can’t believe it.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t think that “what he’s shared” about therapy is necessarily representative of what happens there. I know I wouldn’t share anything of real significance about such a personal topic with someone in my social circle.</p>
<p>Jumping in late to this discussion, but there are a lot of myths and inaccuracies about suicidality. One of the most respected experts in this field is Dr. Thomas Joiner. He’s written a lot about it. Here’s a helpful article he wrote a few years ago.</p>
<p>[Understanding</a> and Overcoming the Myths of Suicide - Psychiatric Times](<a href=“http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/content/article/10168/1780274]Understanding”>http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/content/article/10168/1780274)</p>
<p>Hes also written a book called “Myths of Suicide” [Myths</a> about Suicide ? Thomas Joiner | Harvard University Press](<a href=“Myths about Suicide — Harvard University Press”>Myths about Suicide — Harvard University Press)</p>
<p>For example, one myth is that it is a selfish act. While it may seem that way to the survivors, the suicidal person has great difficulty thinking beyond their own pain and may think that others are better off without them. </p>
<p>from the above article:
There are a lot of misconceptions that lay people perpetuate about suicide.</p>
<p>*suicidal person has great difficulty thinking beyond their own pain *</p>
<p>I completely agree.</p>
<p>Or maybe it’s not that “he doesn’t want to believe” there’s light at the end of the tunnel, as you assert - maybe it’s that he can’t believe it.</p>
<p>That may be a better way to put it.</p>
<p>JYM626 - thanks for the link to the article in your post above. It was interesting.</p>
<p>When my SIL took her life ,she took the time to write letters to all of her siblings , apologizing. Not for the suicide , but she had felt the sense that she was a fraud and let everyone down. She also planned it out carefully and they suspect that she planned for the police to find her , since she was being served with legal notice. Unfortunately , it was her daughter that found her.</p>
<p>I’ve personally known 5 and know another 4 who were close to people I know well. The latest, a year ago, was a 20 something son of good friends. Wow has it had such a devastating impact, understandably, on their lives.</p>
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<p>Well… you are blaming him – “gently”.</p>
<p>IIRC your DH is a doctor, so I’m sure you know that there’s a large chemical component to depression. It’s not something your friend has chosen. But having been diagnosed with depression myself in my 30s, I get your frustration. People who’ve never had it have a very difficult time understanding it. It’s not sadness or “the blues.” It’s a deep black hole, with no light and no hope of ever having light. It is inertia and aloneness and utter hopelessness. It’s thinking no one can ever understand you or help you. People who’ve never had it can grow impatient and think, “Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and go get some help already!” But depression is insidious; the things that would help you are the very things you find nearly impossible to do. “What’s so impossible about making some changes that would help you?!” you might ask. People who’ve had depression know the answer to that question. But I recognize that to people who haven’t had depression, it’s mystifying. But it is nonetheless true.</p>
<p>Your friend doesn’t need advice or confrontation. He needs support and understanding.</p>
<p>jym- Thank you for the links.</p>
<p>I have known 2. My dtrs music teacher’s 29 y/o grandson last year hung himself, he had a hx of depression. She found him as he lived with her, an absolute horror for her. He had a 6 yr autistic son.</p>
<p>4 weeks ago my biological father shot himself, we had spoken 2 x times in the 2 weeks before with no hint except he did call and ask me if I wanted his dining room set. I asked him why he wanted to get rid of it and he said it took up too much room. His wife died a year earlier, followed by his two remaining brothers and then I called to share with him that my mother had passed. It seemed to set him on a path. It is very difficult for those left wondering why and what if…</p>
<p>H’s best friend from age 3 to 54. H, myself and our teenage boys were on our way over to best friends house for friends birthday dinner. Got a call enroute and H took me and boys home and then headed over to deal with the situation. </p>
<p>Best friend had spent the day cooking one of his wonderful meals - which was left on the stove when he walked down to a small local park bench. Apparently he grabbed his ID before leaving the house and sat on the bench and enjoyed a cigar before shot himself. </p>
<p>He was what some people called a “functioning alcoholic” - never drank at work. He had recently taken up cooking and “sipped” while he cooked. So on a weekend, this could go on all day/evening. He had a successful business and the days before had been at an out of town conference. He came to a client meeting drunk. Clients told coworker they wanted him off the account. Coworker told H’s best friend what client said. Next day best friend commits suicide. H gave the eulogy at the funeral.</p>
<p>A lot of people are still emotionally messed up as a result of his suicide. </p>
<p>Bad deal all around.</p>
<p>LasMa</p>
<p>My H is not a doctor.</p>
<p>Your friend doesn’t need advice or confrontation. He needs support and understanding.</p>
<p>He gets lots of support and understanding from me. The dilemma that I face is that when I’m only offering a “listening ear” then he’s been known to say things like, “My boss is messing with me and M2CK agrees.” Ugh. He takes “silent listening” as agreement and reinforcement that his delusions are correct.</p>
<p>How timely. The cover article of the online Newsweek is all about Suicide, and starts wuth the story of Dr. Tom Joiner’s fathers suicide and a lengthy interview with Dr. Joiner. [Why</a> Suicide Has Become an Epidemic–and What We Can Do to Help - Newsweek and The Daily Beast](<a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/05/22/why-suicide-has-become-and-epidemic-and-what-we-can-do-to-help.html]Why”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/05/22/why-suicide-has-become-and-epidemic-and-what-we-can-do-to-help.html)</p>
<p>Excellent article. As I said earlier- he is the expert. Please read it.</p>
<p>Jym–thanks for that link. The article doesn’t, however, address the role of mental illness in suicide. In my brother’s case, I would say that mental illness could be substituted for the “thwarted belongingness” circle on the Venn diagram. He certainly had the other two pieces–capability for suicide (ready access to guns, life-long hunter) and the perceived burdensomeness (which stemmed from the mental illness). He did not seem to feel alone, and had many connections through family, work, church, and friends.</p>
<p>LasMa. You are spot on. It is very hard to explain the depths of depression to someone. People probably look at my life and ask what do I have to be depressed about. It is so utterly exhausting trying to be my “normal me” when going through a rough time. This year I really wanted to hurt myself. But I didn’t. Should have been hospitalized, asked for help. I now have a plan in place with my doctor if I ever feel that way again.</p>
<p>I’ve known many people who’ve done so, and the damage done to those left behind is never healed. And I remember the disconcerted response of a college professor when I wanted to reasearch and present on the topic of suicide in college. She was clearly frightened and apprehensive of any mention of suicide. It was almost taboo to speak about then. IMO, the most merciful suicides are those victims who commit autocide or any other unexplained accidental death, because it leaves the living relatives and friends unknowing; or at least questioning the death and the survivor’s guilt may be lessened. I feel suicide is a selfish act, but since I have not experienced another’s pain or lack of pain tolerance, I guess I cannot judge absolutely.</p>
<p>eddie, good. We don’t want to lose you.</p>
<p>eddie- take care of yourself. </p>
<p>shyparentalunit- the article I linked above describes Dr. Joiner’s theoretical model, his interpersonal-psychological theory of suicidal behavior, which he has summarized elsewhere [The</a> Interpersonal-Psychological Theory of Suicidal Behavior: Current Empirical Status](<a href=“http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2009/06/sci-brief.aspx]The”>http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2009/06/sci-brief.aspx) [The</a> View from Hell: How People Die By Suicide](<a href=“http://theviewfromhell.blogspot.com/2008/11/how-people-die-by-suicide.html]The”>http://theviewfromhell.blogspot.com/2008/11/how-people-die-by-suicide.html) It describes the belief system that occurs in the minds of patients who suicide, separate from the MH diagnoses that may or may not accompany this thinking.</p>