<p>
He wouldn’t say. He is not that introspective.</p>
<p>NSM,
I read through most of these posts and Its clear that many poeple here in longtime committed relationships including myself has at one time or another questioned out choices in our marriages. You have mentioned that you had experienced chronic depression and have now gotten better with antidepresseants. Maybe your husband does not know what to do with your new life, perhaps he sees you flourishing with out him, or maybe he liked you better the old way, maybe he felt more protective of you or even doesn’t know how to fit in your new life or wishes he could do the same. I don’t know these are just thoughts. Not good or bad. Maybe his intimacy problems are a medical one and he is afraid to face that. It is quite possible as this juncture in his life.
He absolutely seems like the committed partner anyone would die for. Someone told me once that you have to earn your way out of a marriage.
The ebb and flow of a long relationship is just that. Some get more at one time and the other doesn’t then next thing you know the tide turns.
I know in my own marriage, I have realized that I was more concerned about my feelings and needs and didn’t even think that my husband had too many because he never really talked about what he wanted. I talk before I think, he thinks before he talks.</p>
<p>Communication is key. I hope everything works out for you.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>NSM - Please forgive my impertinence, but have you considered Asperger’s? </p>
<p>I think your most recent post is incredibly revealing. What excites your husband is your field of work. As long as you both shared this excitement, you had a basis for a relationship. Your “empty nest” has more to do with the professional work you produced, than the absence of your kids. It must be tough for both of you. </p>
<p>When YOU were excited about your field of study, your happiness, your questions, your involvement would have filled in the gaps. As you have pulled away from your former professional interests, the gaps are more apparent. </p>
<p>Some posters have talked about control. If I had to guess it has less to do with control than with a man who is excited about projects and ideas, not ambiguity. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t give up on your relationship just yet. I think with your academic mind doing some of the reading suggested on this thread may help you sort out what is going on with you and with your husband, and ultimately what can be done about your relationship.</p>
<p>“Obviously NSM’s husband stuck with her through many years of her depression, and in reality, some of his disengagement may be related to a spouse’s long-term depression (as a cause, effect, or coping mechanism).”</p>
<p>One important thing that came out in our marriage counseling was that H had grown up with a depressed mother and sister who is a year younger than he is. To him, my behavior while depressed was normal. </p>
<p>After I didn’t get tenure (from the same department that had guaranteed H tenure when he was hired) and was unemployed, there were long stretches – weeks, possibly months – when I’d be in bed when he left the house and still would be in bed when he returned. H did all of the cooking (which was normal for us as he always had been the cook) and never commented or expressed concern about my behavior. For that matter, despite my having a doctorate in clinical psych, I didn’t realize that I was in a serious depression until a couple of years later when I was hospitalized for chest pains, and depression, not a heart problem, was the eventual diagnosis.</p>
<p>It was H’s response to the depression that caused me to insist that he get into therapy. As long as the ER doc was talking about tests for heart problems, H’s response was appropriate. When the ER doc said that he didn’t think I had a heart problem, but he did think I was seriously depressed, H’s response was to notice the ER doc’s Canada accent and then to talk a great deal about the types of accents there are in Canada. </p>
<p>That was my “click” moment. After the doc left the room, I told H that his response was so inappropriate that if he didn’t go into therapy ASAP, I’d leave him. That’s how H went into therapy, a therapy that eventually evolved into marital therapy.</p>
<p>Also, Zoosermom, some people (including me – and possibly your husband?) need to feel emotionally connected to someone before having sex with that person; other people (including my husband) become more emotionally intimate after we have sex.</p>
<p>It’s not a power play or manipulation on my part that I do not feel like having sex with my husband when we are emotionally distant or at odds. It’s my “default setting.” After 30+ years, we both have figured out that these differing perspectives are not designed to hurt each other, they are just how we are wired – and that each of us can voluntarily reroute our wiring to accommodate the other occasionally.</p>
<p>"NSM - Please forgive my impertinence, but have you considered Asperger’s? "</p>
<p>I’ve thought about it, but he really isn’t that bad. He also has a history of social engagement that folks with Aspergers don’t have. For instance, while in high school, he was VP of his class, coach (!) of the JV basketball team (Yes, you read that right!), president of Youth for Christ, and was an officer in chess club. </p>
<p>In his current job, he has been an officer in Faculty Senate and a contingent of people wanted him to take on the presidency, something that he declined. </p>
<p>Overall, he’s much more in touch with his head than with his heart.</p>
<p>I think there is a good chance things can work out for you northstarmom…Your husband looks like he is a very nice guy…that’s huge…there is still a lot you like about him…</p>
<p>a time when you are both relaxed …you being the aggressor…maybe a little massage…a little soft porn…
I don’t know…but I think things can work…</p>
<p>If there are money issues…then getting a job can help enormously…financially and emotionally…</p>
<p>When a couple despises each other…when there is contempt…then it is over…doesn’t sound like that exists in your situation…</p>
<p>You need to decide if you want some intimate time, or if you want him to want intimate encounters. If you want him to want something - well, good luck with that. I decided that my storefront labeled “Changing Other People” is shuttered and out of business!</p>
<p>If you are OK with intimate time, whether he thinks this is a rocking idea or not, well then it is time to appeal to his head, not his heart. Say, “Here’s the deal …”. This for watching a game with you. That for discussing the sports page. This and that for supporting one of the bike races.</p>
<p>The key question is, are you holding out for him “wanting you”. My advice is, don’t. They often tell women to “fake it till you make it”. Well, let him fake it for a while. Who cares if he is sighing and carrying on. If he is still physically intact (the biking DOES do damage so that may be an issue) it may surprise him that the “faking it” starts to turn into something else.</p>
<p>Anyway, it’s a thought.</p>
<p>Some posters are saying NSM’s husband is “withholding” sex. I don’t think that’s a fair description of the situation. “Withholding” suggests a person maliciously not having sex to punish the other person, even though they both want sex. If her husband does not want sex, for whatever reason, then he is not withholding it from her, any more than I am withholding sex from my dentist or the grocery clerk.</p>
<p>Sounds like it might be worthwhile exploring this lack of desire-- though I do understand he is also refusing to do that.</p>
<p>
I totally get what you’re saying. in our case, my husband has admitted what he does and is actively working on it. For which I am grateful!</p>
<p>I’m sorry to hear about what you are going through. </p>
<p>Like others, I am wondering if the fact that you were treated successfully for depression and became so involved in activities, made tons of new friends etc. hasn’t made your H subconsciously insecure that you will ultimately take off and leave him. So he makes himself emotionally unavailable, or takes off in his own way first, a self- protective thing. The family history seems to back up that theory - he must have also felt abandoned by his mom throughout his childhood and no doubt developed all kind of mechanisms in order to cope. Therapy may be the key if he is willing - sounds like this may have been interrupted before things got this bad. It does seem that he’s been willing to go this route in the past, and it also seems that he knows he has some issues. I agree with others who say it’s reasonable at this point to insist on counseling. Good luck.</p>
<p>Info re: Andropause…low male hormone levels can be a basis for loss of libido. [Andropause</a> Treatment, Male Menopause Symptoms, Testosterone Replacement & Hormone Therapy](<a href=“http://www.renewman.com/]Andropause”>http://www.renewman.com/)</p>
<p>I would also think of a complete physical workup- Vitamin D deficiency is pretty common & can affect hormone levels.</p>
<p>[MedPie</a> | Sex and the Beach: The Role of Vitamin D in Increasing Libido](<a href=“http://www.medpie.com/top-health-stories/opinion/02062101-sex-and-the-beach-the-role-of-vitamin-d-in-increasing-libido.html]MedPie”>http://www.medpie.com/top-health-stories/opinion/02062101-sex-and-the-beach-the-role-of-vitamin-d-in-increasing-libido.html)</p>
<p>I think some men withhold sex for other reasons besides just control. I don’t think that all men (or women) who are passively refusing to have sex are doing it just for control reasons, although it ultimately becomes an issue of control. I think some men (and women) have an aversion to intimacy that is so strong, either for psychological or physiological reasons or both, that they will avoid intimacy at all costs, even at the cost of hurting the spouse and endangering the marriage. I don’t think a man who is not having sex is necessarily having an affair or interested in one. That would probably be true of men who are sexually driven, but a man who is avoiding intimacy is not looking elsewhere. Based on what NSM has said, I would bet money that her husband has not looked elsewhere and that he has never even considered it. He seems like the type who really can be happy with his projects and work and doesn’t need or want to be intimate. I’ve known other men like this, men who in some ways probably should not have married but, as I’ve said before, were more sexually driven in their youth or in their desire to procreate. But, as I stated, it does turn into an issue of control, as does any issue where one spouse wants something that the other doesn’t. Who gets their way? Who gets what they want or need and who is left wanting? In a healthy relationship, compromise is worked out or the person who has intimacy issues makes a concerted effort to get some help, realizing that his/her behavior is not the norm and that it is hurtful and the partner figures out how to be supportive and adjusts expectations. Love wins out, a certain amount of self-awareness wins out. </p>
<p>I personally believe that NSM’s husband loves her very much in the context of his capacity for love, but he may not have the tools or the self-awareness to know how to handle this situation in any way other than by shutting down. When a spouse shuts down and refuses to talk about the issue, refuses to get help, refuses to even acknowledge that there is a significant problem, it can be soul-crushing to the partner. Thus, it is not necessarily solely the intimacy issue itself, but the response to dealing with it and finding a satisfactory resolution that becomes the critical factor in determining whether the marriage survives. A message of “This is important to you, I know that, you’ve told me that and my actions will indicate to you that I just don’t care because I want it to be this way” is, ultimately, what is difficult to live with.</p>
<p>I’ve been reading this book: [Amazon.com:</a> Switch: How to Change Things When Change Is Hard…](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Switch-Change-Things-When-Hard/dp/0385528752/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277314897&sr=1-1]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Switch-Change-Things-When-Hard/dp/0385528752/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277314897&sr=1-1)</p>
<p>and it’s changing how I look at a lot of things. It seems silly to tout a self-help book (my usual modus operandi would be to ridicule them)–but this one has some excellent points. As weird as it sounds, it ties in nicely with my recent reading on learning theory. That is: identify what’s going right and do more of it. Make concrete goals, not abstract ones. Appeal to the inner emotional level as well as the outer rational self.</p>
<p>So how to apply that to a marriage? “I really enjoy having breakfast with you. Can we have breakfast twice a week instead of once?” seems to me to work better than “we don’t spent enough time talking.”</p>
<p>But I’ve also liked to have concrete plans, so perhaps this won’t work for other people as well as it’s working for me ;)</p>
<p>
I like concrete plans, as well, and am blissfully happy when I can have a concrete plan with a list of options.</p>
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</p>
<p>When someone reaches the point where they truly believe that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, because they have made the clean requests and their spouse no long makes an effort, it seems to become a matter of self-preservation. </p>
<p>However, IMO do everything you can to avoid second guessing yourself. IMO the point where there will be no second guessing is reached when someone makes the effort that they would want from their spouse, if that spouse was the one who was considering the divorce, and nothing changes.</p>
<p>I imagine we all have seen relationships where that point was reached, but the people stayed.</p>
<p>
True.
Not always true. Some men are in such deep denial about their waning midlife sexual performance capabilities, that they project the problem onto their wives, meaning they place the blame on the wife for their own inadequacies. This can lead to going outside the marriage to not only avoid real intimacy, but to prove that they haven’t lost their potency and vitality, fueled by the endorphins associated with a new sexual partner. This temporary band aid masks the root cause of the problem, enabling the man to continue his pattern of denial and avoidance by “validating” his flawed thinking that the wife is to blame.</p>
<p>GoBLueAlumMom, you make an excellent point. I guess I was thinking of men who avoid intimacy and are not at all bothered by their “inadequacy” ( I put it in quotes because they may not view it as an inadequacy.) A man who is happy as he is, without intimacy, is not likely to risk his marriage with infidelity. He’s got what he wants, a marriage on his terms and he feels okay. A man who has something to prove is another story.</p>
<p>^ “He’s got what he wants …”</p>
<p>Treading onto presumptuous ground here.</p>