Helicopter Parents: Now It's Job Search

soozievt · May 30, 2010, 11:00am

Dad of 3…I think you are misinterpreting what I said. When I said parents shouldn’t get their kids jobs, it was within the context that I mentioned that parents should pass on resources and contacts if they have them. The parent passes them on and the kid arranges it from that point forward. The parent doesn’t negotiate the hiring. But surely if the parent knows someone their kid could contact, the parent should definitely share the networking opportunities! I wasn’t saying the parent should stay completely out of it if they have networking contacts. I was saying that the child is the one who does the direct contact and obtains the job after the parent has given the child the contacts. In fact, I think you are saying that is what your wife did. She gave your child the contact information and your child made the direct contact, right?

EDIT…oops, I think I missed the part of your post where your wife talked to the employer about hiring your D. So, maybe we do disagree after all. If a parent knows someone as a contact, my feeling is the parent tells the child and the child could write in her cover letter that their mom or dad passed their name onto them and go from there. Not sure why a parent would talk directly to the employer to line up the job.

Marian · May 30, 2010, 12:02pm

Mostly, I think, because the employer could more comfortably say to the parent, “Much as I would like to help, there isn’t an opening here that’s a good match for your son/daughter right now.”

At the company where I work, during most summers, a few high school or college students are hired to help out with routine office tasks to cover for support staff who are on vacation. Most often, these are children of employees. The parents know that the opportunities exist and encourage their kids to apply. I don’t think these jobs are ever advertised.

This year, though, one of our departments is low on work, so the company is having people from that department cover for vacationing support staff rather than hiring students. The alternative would be to lay off permanent employees, which the company does not want to do.

As is usually the case, several parents inquired in the spring about whether there might be summer jobs that their kids could apply to. This year, unlike other years, the answer was no. I see nothing wrong with the parent making the inquiry. In fact, it would seem weird for the student to call the company, given that the jobs in question are never advertised or even mentioned on the company website. What’s the kid supposed to say, “Hi, I want to ask about a job that doesn’t exist?”

moonchild · May 30, 2010, 1:14pm

I thought this article was interesting and to the point of this thread and other threads on this topic that have popped up lately.

[Wealth</a> Matters - Teaching the Value of Work to Children of Wealth - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Teaching the Value of Work to Children of Wealth - The New York Times”>Teaching the Value of Work to Children of Wealth - The New York Times)

blueiguana · May 30, 2010, 2:22pm

Thanks for your well wishes for my sons interview. I did remind him to send thank you notes and reminded him he could find the address on their website. Will I address, stamp, and get them to the mail. No way.
The more he has talked about the interview I believe he feels very good about the experience. We have pointed out that if this one doesn’t work out he will have much more confidence for the next interview. It’s not always about getting the job at 16. Sometimes the experience of a professional interview is a very valuable experience if they come out feeling good and receive positive feedback.
I do think the level of help given depends on the situation and job desired. My son had talked about an internship on Capitol Hill where H works (not in his dept…). This would have required a great deal of parental involvement to get S2 into a member office for the interview. He could have gotten him in the door, the rest would have been up to S2. That’s the nature of the beast. He decided against it because his goal is not poly-sci and didn’t want to do it simply for the ‘bragging rights’.
Even in today’s professional world, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. Respectfully, anyone who doesn’t believe that has not looked for a job in the last 5 years.

calmom · May 30, 2010, 7:33pm

I think that what is “wrong” about it is that (a) you sell your own kid short; (b) you do not give the kid the opportunity to develop important networking skills on their own; and (c) you put the employer in a very uncomfortable position with respect to the new hire.

I think the parent-arranged job is fine when the kid is still in high school – I got my daughter her first job, at age 14, that way. My focus then was on helping her build some basic job skills, as well as gaining some experience that could be put on a resume for job #2. But when my d was 17, I watched as she traipsed around all summer looking for work, turning in 40+ applications without success. That was a very fruitful and educational summer. She has never had much problem finding a job since.

I think that at the college level, the kid needs to be making the calls. I think its fine for parent to inquire casually in an appropriate circumstance – but then the contact info needs to be passed to the kid, no promises.

I know you feel you have helped your d. – but you have also held her close. The person who did your wife a favor by hiring your d may have made the assumption, based on the mommy-call, that the d. wasn’t highly skilled, and put her in a position with less responsibility or learning potential than the type of job she might have found on her own – after all the first piece of information the employer had was, “this person needs a lot of supervision and hand-holding”. So that’s what I mean by selling the kid short.

As far as networking, before and after that job, your d. had the same network (friends of mom). I am 100% sure that my d. got her current post-grad job because of the indirect impact of the network my d. created for herself 2 years ago when she sent off an email to her high school friend’s uncle, just because she thought his job sounded cool. The reason I feel that way is that when my d. was interviewed and was asked about her internship, she had met a lot of the same people that her employer knew and had previously worked with. I don’t have the right connections and her dad doesn’t have the right connections for her goals – but she used her time in college to create several new and independent networks of her own. Mom & dad are 2 people. The point of networking is to expand the contacts far beyond that.

If your d’s post college goals are to come home to your community and get a job locally --then perhaps my observations don’t hold. In that case, maybe its for the best that she is introduced early on into her mom’s network – after all, many college students do return home and enter the family business. I think in a smaller city, or in a field of employment where internal ties tend to be very strong - then maybe it is a big advantage to be perceived as an “insider” rather than an outsider. But it may also be a very restrictive employment environment – that is, the path for advancement may be very long in a world where its hard to get out from under the parental shadow.

notrichenough · May 30, 2010, 7:42pm

This is a tough call.

If my kid is looking for an internship, and I have a contact at another company, I think I would pick up the phone and call and ask “Are you guys hiring any interns? Can I give your contact info to my kid?”, rather than have this person get cold-called by someone they don’t know.

At work I generally don’t even answer the phone if I don’t recognize the number and it’s not id’ed as being from within the company (I don’t work in a customer-facing position).

calmom · May 30, 2010, 7:59pm

Politics is a different animal (I know, both my kids are poli sci majors). When my son was still in college, I did take him to political meet-and-greet parties – but I didn’t have to host them (and once we arrived… we separated and I let my son walk around on his own for the chit chat). The way in the door is a check (and there’s some wiggle room on that as well). There are LOTS of jobs for young people interested in politics, though they usually start with a lot of hours of volunteering – or very low pay at the experience building stage.

My son had a Congressional internship – obtained via an application process at his college – no parental involvement involved. Those positions are advertised. It may also be very competitive – but definitely there are ways for the “unconnected” to get in.

frazzled1 · May 30, 2010, 8:04pm

^^^ My middle d, too, obtained a Congressional internship entirely on her own. I believe she began by filling out an online application. I was very surprised when she was offered the position, because h and I don’t know anyone in political circles, neither did d, and the internship was for a member of Congress from a different district than the one we live in (though the same state). I think the selection process was as influence-free as it’s likely to get in politics.

calmom · May 30, 2010, 8:16pm

FWIW, both my kids got their post-college jobs through published listing, readily available to the public. (i.e., stuff that was posted on the web sites of the agencies they work for). Each kid had established an excellent foundation of work-related skills relative to the job they got – they were able to offer resumes that put them easily in contention for the jobs. My d. was hired the same day she graduated; my son was hired within roughly 10 days of his graduation.

So while of course parental connections can be valuable, its a myth to think that they are absolutely necessary.

soozievt · May 30, 2010, 8:37pm

Calmom, agree that it is not necessary to have parental connections. My kids have none, nor work near home. They have done a lot of networking on their own. They have gotten a job every time they sought one, always in their field. They have even created jobs for themselves. It is surely possible, as you say.

Greenery · May 30, 2010, 8:38pm

I’m not in the situation yet.
However, if at the time of my kids’ college graduation, I know anyone that could have a work opportunity, I will call them and inquire about any opportunities, then, I will handle the address to my kids and they are in their own with the cover letters, resume and interview.

Under no circumstance I will be calling a prospective employer if I don’t know them. At this stage my kids know the drill, because I help them proof-read their college applications and intern’s applications. However they did the most important part, letters, EC, resumes, interviews. My help was logistic; transportation and reading and suggesting changes in what they wrote.

I remember that my father did the same for my brother and sisters. I was terrified to attend my first interview after graduating…I was in an elevator and a stranger asked me are you going to your first interview. Yes, I answered, how do you know? Well, I just remembered how terrified I was for my first interview—she answered. I laughed, relax, went to the interview and got my first job…Help your kid if you can to the extent that if you need to call a friend to inquire about opportunities…why not? However, please don’t call an unknown employer to represent your kid in the job hunting.

Dad_of_3 · May 30, 2010, 9:23pm

Agree with Calmom that the ability for someone to get things done by themselves is an invaluable skill, probably more important than most vocational skills. However, some people have this skill better developed than others, and at D’s age and experience, she still has time.

From our perspective when D tried on her own and didn’t get anything she really fancied, we would rather hand one to her and defer life’s lessons to the future. Good internships are taken well before summer and we felt that was more useful.

Many internships are granted to people because they know someone in the organization. At my workplace, after the intern has worked a few days, nobody assesses the intern’s skill by how s/he got the job because we know the kind of work they can do. Also, being highly skilled for the job (doing geeky computer stuff in my place of work or researching something in the medical field for my D) isn’t necessarily that connected to the skill to initiating contact to get the job on their own. In fact in some cases, we don’t have a position, and if a student calls, we’ll just turn him down but if the parent is someone we know, we may go out of our way to accommodate him.

So yes, point well taken about letting the bird fly on its own, but we don’t see that as critically important at this stage. It’s good that as parents we can have differing perspectives - I personally don’t see your viewpoint as incorrect - our priorities are different, and we’ll raise different types of kids. If mine sees the importance of having connections as compared to pounding the street making cold calls, that’s a lesson learned too.

soozievt · May 30, 2010, 9:49pm

Dad of 3, let me first say that I respect that you approach things differently and have a different viewpoint overall.

About this last comment which I quoted…I don’t think it is either/or like you are describing. My kids KNOW how important networking is. They have seen it happen first hand. But the opposite of mom/dad calling to make a connection on behalf of the kid is not a kid making cold calls. A kid can ALSO network independent of their parents. My two girls have done so! I have had NO involvement as I know nobody, nor live where they do. But they surely network and make connections. I do not believe anyone is negating the importance of networking.

One of my D’s has even gotten her friends a job by recommending them to employers who wanted my D for the job but she was too busy and so she found the employer a qualified person instead…friends who had the requisite skills. I could tell you several stories of my kids’s various jobs that involved networking of their own accord. As well, both have created their own jobs. The two jobs that my older D has lined up (one for summer and one for next year) in her field, she is not filling existing positions. She inquired and offered her services and they hired her, and created the positions for her. One person she called cold…on the other side of the world. The other job is through her own networking with a fellow student in her program who is now a professor, also on the other side of the world. I can think of one of the many jobs my other D currently has, where she called a business up in her field that several friends were working for. She offered her services which are very skill related, and asked about working for them…they tried her out, loved her and continue to give her work. Another job she has she got because one of her fellow graduates works for an organization that needed someone with my D’s skill set and the friend recommended my D for the job and they hired her. Another job my D has is due to a former professor getting her the job…professor has hired my D several times for professional work, even when my D was still an undergrad and has paid her professional salaries, for jobs that typically would go to someone with a degree and much older (D now has a degree but she did jobs during college when she was only 18 that this professor hired her to do). My other D just finished a job this week that involved ongoing networking on her part with students she met at another graduate program in her field whom she stayed in contact with for a couple of years and those students started a company and when my D needed a job, she called and asked them if she could work for them and they hired her. One of my D’s also has a job she created for herself where she offers her skills as a private coach in her field (she is 21 and has been out of college for a year) and many of her clients are peers she went to college with who then tell others in her field and they pay her a professional hourly rate for her services.

teriwtt · May 30, 2010, 10:01pm

Coming in late to this thread, but I probably fall in the middle of everyone’s practices/experiences. I would certainly pass along a name to my kid (have done so before with good successes for them), but my role ends there.

Unfortunately, we had a bad experience that I’m not quite sure what to do with. D2 came home this summer… first summer she’s been home since summer prior to freshman year. One of those summers, while still at school, she took a bartending class and is licensed. We also know a woman (who, up until today, I used to call my friend - I don’t need friends like this anymore), whose sister has hired many high school/college aged students to work for her catering business in the summer time. I’ve met the sister, and she knows of my daughter through having seen her perform (and was very complimentary). Back in April, I mentioned to this friend that D was coming home for the summer and would be interested in working for her sister. I was told she didn’t think her sister would be involved in this business anymore, but she knew of another company D should apply to, and talked it up. So I emailed her a couple of days later and asked her for the company name, she sent it to me, but with no contact information (which it sounded like she knew the owner). I looked up the place online and sent the link to D, who then asked me to get a contact name so she could get in touch with them and pass along my friend’s name for referral. When I asked this friend, it became obvious that her contact wasn’t as strong as she alluded it to be, and she didn’t have a name. So we let it slide and told D she’d have to wait until she got home and look around. The website was not helpful at all with information on who to contact for job hiring.

Last Friday, we’re out with a group of friends and D, when asking a friend’s mother where he was that night, was told he was staying in because he had a long day at work the next day, working for this earlier mentioned friend and her sister’s catering business. So, big slap in the face. Then today, we were at another party, and one of the kids left early to go to work; when I asked his mom (who I’m friends with) where he was working this summer, I was also given the name of the catering company associated with my ‘friend’ and her sister. The mom told me my ‘friend’ had been bugging her son since April about when was he going to get home from college so he could start working for them. Evidently there are a few other kids who all knew each other in high school who are working for this woman’s sister. If you don’t think it didn’t sting D to find out we’d been lied to, then you’re mistaken.

Funny thing is, this woman is an elected politician in our area who rants about Mayor Daley and his nepotism. And both her kids, I learned, are also working for her sister. We have some other friends who have grown up in the area and passing along contacts to D for people they know who are looking to hire kids, so she still has a shot, but I will think twice before asking anyone again if they have any leads I can pass along.

Dad_of_3 · May 30, 2010, 11:22pm

Fully agree with you. And great to know your kids are well rounded and street smart.

soozievt · May 30, 2010, 11:31pm

Dadof3…hey, we agree on something! :D

Funny to me to hear you use the words, “street smart” in reference to my daughters, considering they grew up on a dirt road in a rural town of 1700 people, LOL. They live in cities now though.

calmom · May 31, 2010, 12:28am

teriwtt – you didn’t do anything wrong that I can see. I think maybe it would have best if your daughter had simply contacted the friend’s sister directly – it sounds like that step was missed. That is, from the way you tell it, it sounds like the friend misdirected you, and in turn your daughter – but we can’t tell whether the sister with the catering business even knew of your d’s availability. So it may very well be that your “friend” was trying to protect her chosen favorites from competition.

Actually a valuable lesson in office/job politics – there’s a big danger in relying on 2nd hand info.

If I am mistaken, and indeed your d. did call or write to the sister and was told there were no jobs available – then I’m sorry. But if I am interpreting this correctly, then I the lesson in the future is to check directly at the source.

calmom · May 31, 2010, 12:52am

I have to reiterate that the pounding the street and cold calls was when my d. was 17, trying to find work in food service or retail. You didn’t say how old your d. is currently – I can certainly see a difference between a college freshman looking for a summer internship and a college grad. I’m not saying there’s a bright line – again I think the community and nature of the work plays a role, too.

But I do have to reiterate that both my kids now have a wide range of connections, which they have created on their own. I remember when my d. was a freshman in college and looking for an internship, and didn’t know who to list for a recommendation. I suggested her college advisor, a prominent professor with whom she had a good relationship, as well as one or two other of her profs who she seemed to get along well with. She had been shy about asking, not certain if it was appropriate – but once I pointed her in the right direction she ended up with a great internship, and also lined up grant funding on her own.

So my point is, sometimes the networking / connections part is a matter of simply building some interpersonal skills and overcoming initial shyness. Since my daughter wanted to stay on the east coast after graduating, and I’m on the west coast – the connections she has formed just from her relationships with faculty are much more powerful than anything I could give her.

My d’s college has a wonderful program for seniors to prepare them for job hunting, with all sorts of workshops, alumnae contacts – and even lining up real-world mentors for them. So there are a lot of techniques for networking that people who are just thinking of “connections” in a familial sense might not think of. For example, my d. was encouraged to call alumnae from her college with jobs in fields she was interested in to arrange to meet them for an “informational” interview. That’s not a request for a job – rather, the purpose is for the student to ask questions like what the job is like and how the person got their start… and only at the end of meeting to ask if the person has any suggestions or contacts that might lead to employment. In fact, its a big no-no to ask the alumnae contact for a job – I think the names are all in a database maintained by the college of alumnae who have offered to help and be available for that purpose.

Now in my little corner of the world there is no way that I can possibly replicate my d’s alumnae network. So there’s a whole world of “connections” who are actually strangers with an emotional bond, because they attended the same college – and fortunately my d’s college offers students with some suggestions as to how to tap into that network.

Another idea my d. picked at up one of her school’s career networks was to join professional associations in her field of interest – most have discount memberships for students. If they have regular meetings, seminars or gatherings – that’s a great entry – a place where a student or recent grad can show up and meet professionals.

So again – you don’t have to be a blood relative to make a “connection”.

blueiguana · May 31, 2010, 1:54am

It seems as though we have as many different ways to approach this as there are different children. There is probably a good rule of thumb, however anyone with multiple children knows that what works with one doesn’t always work with the others. One can be left with the internet and have a job by noon. Another needs help determining what jobs may be a good fit, how to put together a resume, and positive feedback to keep them motivated. This does not mean holding their hands in the interview. What you do to help as 16yo is vastly different than what you would do to assist a 23yo.

I did mention that S2 had considered pursuing a congressional internship. I wanted to clarify that anyone can certainly get these jobs. In high school it is difficult for a 16yo to get in for an interview without a parent opening the door. That does not have to mean ‘politically connected’. They may simply work on a committee with that member. Normally students that age are congressional pages. If your student does not want to be involved in that program it may take a phone call or two to get an interview at that age. Then the student has to interview. At that point it doesn’t matter how the door opened, if the student emailed, they came and sat in the office for four days, or if their parent works a building over and asked if an interview could be arranged. It all comes down to that student. Some students certainly get that interview on their own. Kudos to them!! :)

Congratulations to your students who made the initiative to find, and were hired for the congressional positions they were interested in. I’m sure it is an experience they will enjoy!!

calmom · May 31, 2010, 2:18am

Thanks for clarifying that your son was only 16 at the time you mentioned a congressional internship. I think the usual avenue for internships is via various college programs – that is, you’d probably find great info on how to apply for them at most college career centers or via their poli sci departments, and a lot of colleges have specific programs geared to placing interns in such positions.

On the other hand, knowing what I know about the social life of DC interns… I’m not sure I would want to see a 16yo in the job. It’s not quite as bad as lining up an internship at a bordello… but it’s close. At least the pages are supposed to have some sort of adult supervision.

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