<p>limabeans, I am sorry for the challenges with your son. Being a parent is difficult in general but can be hard when individual children are more challenging in some ways. I will admit that we have had it easier with our kids and I think it is just luck that they are self motivated and driven and I don’t take any credit for that. And I do feel for parents who have more challenging children.</p>
<p>Limabeans, has your son spoken to anyone professionally about his social anxiety? That might be a place to start. Sometimes a little perspective from someone in the know helps to relieve a multitude of anxiety. Just a thought.</p>
<p>And I would do the same for my kid that I have done for countless colleagues. If I know of a job that I believe is a fit, then I will pass on the resume with a little note that I think this person would do well at this job. I will then let my kid/colleague do the rest. I’m only a little more personal introduction (than say a cold call) - the resume is in the right hands and if they get called that’s great, if not, oh well.</p>
<p>Lima,
I’ve been there. My H does not want to help network for my child because he feels my child would embarrass him. ( I disagree) My child is very timid and passive, not a self-starter at all. He is very reluctant to ask for references or apply for internships because he fears rejection. And he lacks social skills and is highly disorganized. </p>
<p>So I am a helicopter parent. I am determined to help anyway I can and I will push, push, push him! Because, given an opportunity, he does just fine. He was absolutely frozen when it came time to apply for schools. I had to fill out the bloody college applications. And I had to breathe fire down his neck to get him to ask his teachers for recs. My H was convinced he would fail the first semester. But, you know what! He has finished his junior year in college and he has a cumulative 3.6 GPA.</p>
<p>The summer after his freshmen year, I had to drive with him and practically force him into stores to talk to managers and get job applications. I had to help fill them out because, when my son is nervous, his handwriting is awful. But he got a job and did well. Why? He was courteous, punctual and dressed very neatly. He was a damn hard worker.</p>
<p>I don’t know what my son will do after he graduates. Because of his passivity, he may settle for a cashier’s job. But I will everything I can to stop that from happening!!!</p>
<p>Ha… I wish I could have helicopter parents! My parents have absolutely no connections, they are immigrants as am I, yet through my own hard work I have gained transfer admission into an Ivy and a comfortable office job for the summer. But that all took grueling work, and in my future endeavors, I sure wouldn’t mind a little help! :)</p>
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<p>The wonderful thing about parenting or being a manager, or leading your life is that there isn’t just one right way and one wrong way; if someone does things differently from you, be grateful the world isn’t full of robots programmed the same way. </p>
<p>For many many jobs, what you have to do to be good at it is completely unconnected to skills needed to secure the job. Is it great that someone can be totally independent? Of course. Is it good to try to get someone on a track to be outgoing and aggressive in getting to their goals? Sure. But if someone has a trait that makes it hard to overcome the pre-job hurdles, but has what it takes to do the job well, do what it takes to get step 1 accomplished, and let the child (or even an adult, for that matter) take it from there. This may be what it takes to boost the child’s confidence. Not everyone is wired the same way in that failure leads to more determination.</p>
<p>limabeans, I am sorry that some of our accounts of higher-achieving kids wounded you. I’m sure that you know that was not the intent.</p>
<p>One thing we all need to be careful about: some kids have situations/conditions that mean they need more support; I often see the assumption that the kid has been crippled by support and that the extra support is the cause of the condition. That is an easy and, sometimes, unfair assumption.</p>
<p>I am thinking that there is a huge difference between “support” and helicoptering. Wasn’t the original article about those parents who so go beyond the concept of support and get into meddling, taking over tasks that the child needs to learn and should be able to tackle on their own?</p>
<p>I look at it this way: if my kid is so dependent on my “help” and "support’ that they would flounder if something ever happened to me, then I would worry that I had intervened too much and not done the job of raising an independent, productive human being. Being available for advice WHEN ASKED, providing moral support or the occasional job tip or networking lead is NOT the same as arranging the interview, meddling in the hiring process, and calling the employer to complain about a job review (or in CC world, calling a professor to complain about a grade or other problem between the student and prof).</p>
<p>Atomic: my son has worked with a psychiatrist since he was 8 years old (now 23).</p>
<p>Yorkyfan: thank you for your story. I too sat outside in the car when he applied for jobs. Today I had him writing a script so he can be more comfortable next time he’s leaving a message about a job.</p>
<p>Nrdsb4: Here’s how my son needs me. He had a job cleaning kennels at a veterinarian hospital, but they “let him go” after the summer and they weren’t so busy. They explained that, “he could come back in a few months” to see if they were hiring again. He went back after a few months, but he was told the manager wasn’t there, so he should come back. He returned a day later, and this time my son was told, “the manager is on the phone” so he should come back. He returned a day later and this time he was told, “the manager was busy” so he should come back. He returned a day later. This time he was told that they were going to call the police because he was harassing them. So, when he told me that, I went back (he didn’t ask me to, but I worried that they’d actually call the police) and explained that he was only doing what he was told. I also explained that he has Asperger’s and dah! They finally understood.</p>
<p>Is that meddling or supporting? I say a little of both.</p>
<p>^^^^I don’t have a clue how to approach parenting an Asperger’s child other than to reiterate that I would think the goal would still be to foster independence as the parent will not always be there to run interference. The pace may be slower or expectations different and/or tailored to individual challenges faced by the child-but at some point the parent has to plan for the eventuality of stepping back.</p>
<p>However, the point of the OP as I vaguely remember it was addressing the parenting of adult children who do NOT have special challenges and who should be perfectly capable of learning to face life without parental interference and meddling. When completely competent adults are carried through life by hovering parents, they are robbed of a very important joy: that of feeling a sense of achievement that comes through facing adversity, working hard, sometimes against the odds, and coming out of it just fine. When parents spare their kids consequences of their own actions, sometimes they are denied some very wonderful experiences in addition to the setbacks.</p>
<p>Nrdsb4…your posts 147 and 149, in my opinion, are very well articulated and sum up what some, like myself, think about this topic.</p>
<p>I agree that the decision to intervene or stand back is a delicate one. But I will assist until my kid says “No more”. And he is willing to say that. He received intensive academic remediation and therapy through eighth grade just to get him through public school. But, the fall of ninth grade, he said enough and I respected his wishes. He got through high school.</p>
<p>This fall he asked me to help him find internships. So I forwarded him about information about twenty possibilities. He did not fill out one application; he was too shy to ask anyone for references. (I admit I blew my top when I found out about that!) Then, this spring, a professor wandered into the library where he was studying and asked if anyone wanted to go to California to collect and analyze soil samples. And, (miracle of miracles!!), my son spoke up.</p>
<p>The job requires not just recommendations from profs but also references from friends and neighbors because of security issues. My H and I had to drive down to his school and rehearse with him in order for him to work up the courage to talk to his profs. When he came home and starting asking neighbors for references, I had to sit next to him to keep him calm while he talked on the phone. (And he has known these people for over a decade!)</p>
<p>On the other hand, he is absolutely unafraid to go to California and work with complete strangers. And he is adamant that he wants to drive himself across the US. And my H and I are going to let him.</p>
<p>After raising my son, I don’t judge people’s parenting anymore. Because I realize I don’t know their child’s personality. So what looks like helicoptering may be a necessary intervention.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing, yorkyfan!</p>
<p>“I don’t know what my son will do after he graduates. Because of his passivity, he may settle for a cashier’s job.”</p>
<p>I am going to admit the absolute unthinkable here on cc that will certainly identify me as a lousy parent. I don’t know weather to say ‘bring it on’, or ‘don’t bother, you won’t be saying anything I didn’t say to myself, but have come to terms with’. Truth is both will happen.</p>
<p>My oldest son graduated last year and ‘gasp’ works as a cashier at the grocery story!! Horrors!! He went to cc, did lousy, & was required to reimburse his college fund so the money would be there when he was ready. He had started at our local Wegman’s in high school and stayed during the past year. We were very grateful he had the job as the economy is wicked and as seen here even college grads are having difficulty getting jobs.</p>
<p>They love him at work! He is responsible, on time, likable. He is the one they can call at 7am for an extra shift and he’ll show up at 7:30. He’s called in sick twice in 1 1/2yrs. We run into friends who haven’t seen him in years who have seen him at work and compliment us on how professional he is, that he remembered their name, and what a great since of humor he has. He has inquired about moving into customer service. Wegman’s has a wonderful management/career path and is one of the top ten companies to work for. We had nothing to do with him getting the job.</p>
<p>He is an 18yo cashier while his friends are in college. He has a checking account that he manages. He owns his own car that he bought and pays taxes on. He pays insurance and is responsible for maintenance and repairs. His friends are generally going to parties and drinking underage.</p>
<p>Is is THAT important that we force him to go back to school in the fall? He will be 19. Is a year off that bad? I am lucky I have a son to kiss goodnight (and I don’t mean because he’d be away at school…I watch the news and see young soldiers lost and shudder it could be him).</p>
<p>Our goal is to make sure our children become healthy, happy, productive members of society. Their path is their own. We will support them, but we will not force them into a mold of success that may not be theirs. Yes, to live independently he will have to have a salary as opposed to an hourly wage. Does he have to figure that out today? The goal is forward motion. Personal forward motion.</p>
<p>Having said this, I have a younger son that I mentioned previously on this thread. He is a rising high school Sr. He has interviewed for a local architect to do some CAD/drafting work. At one point he had thought about exploring a congressional internship. Another member here suggested that was similar to taking him to a brothel. Way to judge another parent. There is a lot of that here.</p>
<p>He is a totally different child than our first, wants to study aerospace engineering, and has the grades, scores, and ec’s to pursue this. We will help him find the school that is right for him. I don’t know when the heck he has assignments due or what they are. He’s a totally different child. We help him when he asks and do what we can…</p>
<p>So yea, I have a son who is a cashier, a son who is going to study aero engineering, and a younger son who it is just too early to tell… and I am darn proud of it!!!</p>
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<p>I love that and am going to have to try to remember the term “personal forward motion.” Great illustration of the fact that the road to independence is just that-a road. Doesn’t happen all at once.</p>
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<p>What?! I guess I did miss a lot while I was on vacation!</p>
<p>Congrats BlueIguana! We had a Wegmans open recently around here and it’s extraordinarily difficult to land a job there. My friend who works there said there were 2,500 apps for 400 spots. Since it opened, two more of my friends are working there. Both college educated and in their fifties. They have been promoted and are doing well. No, the jobs don’t pay that well but the people are terrific and the benefits are decent. </p>
<p>Reading through these posts makes it clear to me how difficult parenting is. How do you know when to step back? For some kids, it’s easy. They have the confidence, skills, and courage to find their own way. Maybe it’s because the parents have encouraged it all along, but in many cases, it seems like certain kids just “get it.” These kids tend to be low maintenance. Others struggle - what comes naturally to others like basic social skills - have to be learned. That USUALLY means the parents need to be more involved. But how involved?? When is OK to step back and allow failures? Or maybe not even failures…but a different path. SOOO hard.</p>
<p>For those kids who need an extra push but do well once they get there…I can really see why parents do the pushing. Each individual needs a different approach. But finding the right balance…wow…it’s not a perfect science.</p>
<p>blueiguana–congrats on having a fine son (well, 3 of them)! He can get just as good, or better, a “business” education through Wegman’s managerial path as someone who halfheartedly goes to college and doesn’t know what they’re going to do.</p>
<p>And a good worth ethic is worth almost as much as a diploma–more, in some instances. Or rather, the diploma is worthless without a good work ethic!</p>
<p>It is so true that each kid is so different and as parents, we have to deal with the kids we’ve got and we don’t have control over that and so we have to guide each one in ways that work with that particular child.</p>
<p>If my son decides to be a cashier after getting a BS in biotech, I will initially be sad. He loves science and is intensely curious about the natural processes of the world. It is not a job that will allow him to develop his potential and I do not think he would be satisfied. So I will fight next year to give him options. Ultimately, though, I will accept his choice and be proud of him for living an independent life.</p>
<p>^Oh I do not disagree with you yorkyfan! If S2 spends 4+yrs busting his butt to get that aero mech degree to come home and work at Wegman’s I would do more than scratch my head! lol</p>
<p>My point was that there are students that need to take a different road. It is not always about helicopter parenting. You can have two (or three) extremes in the same families. You have to adapt to their needs. </p>
<p>Knowing what those needs are, and where the line is can be hard…that’s the topic here. So I’m returning to it. The dreaded parental line…</p>
<p>NOTE:
I will add a funny story here that applies… I dated a boy when I was college age who was a poly-sci major. He graduated and went on to a successful financial position. Several years later he dropped everything, packed up his jeep, and drove west. First he tried making furniture (I am not joking!). Then he decided to write. He is now a NYTimes best selling author. Go figure! :)</p>
<p>I woke up this morning with that blurry thinking that tries to distinguish between dream and reality. My son was telling me he got a job. Then I woke up. I’m still guiding him to find any paying job he can find. He just needs to bring in money and start to feel useful. </p>
<p>This year, I volunteer at our HS as a resource person matching HS kids with incoming jobs in our area, so I have an advantage. I show my son new job openings and usually I hear “I’m not qualified… or it’s probably filled.” Today, after reminders he “just needs any job”, my son agreed he shouldn’t be too fussy. He’s upstairs writing his script for a job in a deli doing prep work and clean-up.</p>
<p>I think a step up will be cashier. But I’ll celebrate any job he can snag.</p>