<p>aj725-
I did have my child do the talking to the teacher. However, on the occasions with teachers use their age/position/leverage and won’t correct their error/won’t discuss it/won’t deal with it, I think it’s appropriate for HS parents to step in. I think there’s a big difference in doing so in middle/high school and college. I wouldn’t contact my child’s college prof.</p>
<p>The problem with it being the “student’s living with the issue” is that, as several have shown in the thread, that some points here and there, added up cumulatively over the years, can make a difference, sometimes significant, in opportunities and scholarship money lost. If I’m paying the college bill, IMO, that makes it also <em>my</em> issue.</p>
<p>mom2college–I was also thinking the exact same thing. Nor has my S had incorrect grading (it’s also electronic) during his college years.</p>
<p>You have a valid point: when does it stop? </p>
<p>It’s probably best treated as a sliding scale; you’ll intervene more for an 8-year-old, less for a 15-year-old and not at all for an 18-year-old. I suppose some parents violate the rule, but don’t most parents tire of doing for their high school graduate what they do for their fifth-grader? Most of us have a limit and we want our children - and ourselves - to move on. Those advocating for their college graduate kids are probably outliers.</p>
<p>Do you actually know age 25+ attorneys who need mom and dad’s advice? Please elaborate!</p>
<p>I did have my child do the talking to the teacher. However, on the occasions with teachers use their age/position/leverage and won’t correct their error/won’t discuss it/won’t deal with it, I think it’s appropriate for HS parents to step in.</p>
<p>Yes, there are some teachers that take advantage of the fact that the kid has to just “shut up and take it” when the teacher spouts out absolute nonsense to stonewall doing the right thing. </p>
<p>*It’s probably best treated as a sliding scale; you’ll intervene more for an 8-year-old, less for a 15-year-old and not at all for an 18-year-old. *</p>
<p>Very true.</p>
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<p>I once told the principal that one teacher in particular treated her classroom like it was her home - where she didn’t have to answer to anyone (not even the principal) or follow the school’s handbook. He had to agree. He said that some teachers do have a problem separating the “no accountability - my way or the highway” attitude that they can have in their homes, with the accountability and following the handbook structure that must exist at school.</p>
<p>It’s true that some teachers will try to hold their position of authority over the students, but isn’t that true of some college profs, bosses etc? I’d say in HS it is up to the student to elevate it to the GC or the principal, with their parents’ advice but not necessarily with the parents coming in to jot off an angry email or make one phone call to handle the issue. This type of thing happens in college as well – less common, but I’ve definitely had experiences where a prof will decide that he will only give As, Bs etc., instead of giving A, A-, B+, B, B- as the grade scale is set forth by the rest of the college; this type of thing has definite effects on GPAs/merit scholarships, and students need to learn to handle it rather than involving their parents.</p>
<p>As for junior attorneys, you’d be surprised how many consult their parents about substantive work; I think that’s fine because if you have attorney parent(s) at home, why not gain from their experience when you’re starting out. But I do find it inappropriate that these junior attorneys don’t/can’t back up the ideas that they’ve gotten from their parents – i.e. instead of taking an idea from a parent and developing it further and presenting it, they will say in meetings ‘my dad has been practicing in this area for 25 yrs and he thinks…’ It’s just not done in a competitive, professional setting and people end up saying or thinking ‘who asked your dad…’. Then there are others who don’t have a handle on what to ask in a professional setting – I’ve recently had people ask ‘how do I pack a business suit so it doesn’t wrinkle’ or ‘should I bring an extra dress shirt with me in case the business trip is extended’ – these are really questions for mom/dad, not for your colleagues or bosses. I’m not saying that helicopter parenting makes people act like this, but there is such a thing as helping a kid too much; when they don’t develop ‘problem solving’ skills and life skills in HS, where you have a lot of support from home, it becomes harder in college and in the workplace.</p>
<p>I would say it is more important to teach your kids HOW to solve problems than it is to protect them by simply doing it all yourself. The intention to ensure a good future is sound and well-formed, but I think it can have a damaging effect if you take it too far. </p>
<p>Perhaps it is a sort of U-curve with a skew – much of life’s transitions regarding academia occur at a younger age (as far as parental intervention and protection is concerned), but I think it’s important to realize when that curve drops off, when it is optimal/rational to back away a bit.</p>
<p>^I was just fishing cheesily for a segue to our youngest academic helicopter story. It embarasses H, not me. </p>
<p>When S-1 was 2 years old, we began Mommy-n-Me Baby Swim classes at the YWCA. After 6 weeks of lessons, I came home to report that he didn’t “fly up.” He’d have to repeat Diaper Dolphins I. Stung with humiliation and annoyed about the extra tuition, H actually came to the pool (for the first time) to talk to that swim teacher and find out what’s what. </p>
<p>She said evenly, "Sir, to ‘fly up’ to Diaper Dolphins II, your son must jump in deep water while holding his breath. Now just watch. " </p>
<p>All the moms are in the water. H sees six little mopettes standing poolside, our S last in line. Teacher calls each child by name and yells, “Jump!” In goes each one – lips clenched tightly, eyes squinched shut. The whole time, our S is narrating like a sportscaster: "There goes Tommy! Tommy’s jumping in. Okay! Now it’s April’s turn, good job April! " </p>
<p>When S’s chance came, he’s still motor-mouthing:, “Here I go! Jumpin’ in the water…” That mouth was still going north-and-south, as he splashed down and out-of-sight. </p>
<p>H just hung his head and forked over the check for the repeat class.</p>
<p>aj275: you said: “I’ve recently had people ask ‘how do I pack a business suit so it doesn’t wrinkle’ or ‘should I bring an extra dress shirt with me in case the business trip is extended’ – these are really questions for mom/dad, not for your colleagues or bosses.”</p>
<p>I know a few people whose parents wouldn’t have a clue how to answer those questions. You are making assumptions. If an employee has parents who are manual laborers, or a single mom who’s a waitress, who should they ask? Their boss should be available to help them make a good impression.</p>
<p>I am an owner of a small business. I had to create a “dress policy” because I was so horrified that our employees were wearing t-shirts from OTHER bike shops to work in our shop.</p>
<p>Whenever I have to ask questions like the ones aj brought up, I typically ask friends or I post questions on a relevant message board in some way. I don’t ask my boss unless there’s a chance that something needs to be directly addressed regarding some custom aspect of whatever’s going on in the firm event, etc.</p>
<p>I’ve never been able to turn to family for that kind of advice to begin with – sometimes you have to get the information elsewhere.</p>
<p>What is it called when your “children” still want to be helicoptered in their mid 20’s? Did I fail at teaching them to be productive adults or do they really value mom’s opinions and help? </p>
<p>I am the queen of research and can find almost anything you are looking for at the best price available. My friends will call me and ask if I can find something for them; it might be an expensive pair of boots for their daughter’s birthday, but they want them cheaper. My kids also will ask for my help, and I love doing it; I actually was excited when my son was able to fly almost solo on his first search. Over the holidays he purchased a pair of shoes online that were on sale and an extra 30% off, plus free shipping and returns. The shoes came but he felt they were too narrow, but he didn’t decide that until he went back to medical school. The shoes needed to be returned in 30 days so he was going to have to get a mailing box (he didn’t take back the one the shoes came in.) He really wanted the shoes in a wide and they were available online at a few stores, but at the full retail price. I had him call the local store and outlet to see if they were available there for an exchange. He was able to convince the brand’s local store to order the shoes for him at the same price he originally paid; they were able to see that 3 pairs were available in the country. He was so proud of himself, and he learned just because something is not available online, doesn’t mean you can’t get it!</p>
<p>My point of that very long winded store was to say I believe we as parents will always be teachers as well as parents. I still receive help from my parents and when there is something I don’t know how to do, I call my mother or a friend. My kids have called me to ask what would be the appropriate attire for a function or maybe a job interview. Every day is a learning experience and I don’t feel I am helicoptering when I tell them what to wear, remind them to send a thank you note after attending a dinner, explaining why the filters on the furnace needed changing or the shower curtain needs replacing. Sometimes a learning experience doesn’t present itself until the moment it is needed. Sometimes it is just easier to do it myself than to go through the effort to explain it to said child and making sure they take care of it.</p>
<p>dmd – that’s part of why DH married me! When I met him, it was polyester suits and quiana shirts for job interviews. It was all he said he could afford. </p>
<p>He has now graduated (after 26 years) to having good taste in ties and is fond of French cuffs.</p>
<p>Most of my helicoptering has been done from inside our house. I’m sure I was a total PITA during those HS years. Last year, however, H called the HS with complaints about a particular teacher - crazy grading, frequent absences followed up with insane exams, just putting videos on and calling it teaching. The Dean welcomed the info as they were trying to build a case against this teacher. H was in pretty close contact all year but I think the guy is still teaching there.
I called S’s college prof once last year when S travelled to China on his own to attend a summer session. No one including us and prof knew where he was for a couple of days. Seems the plane was diverted because of swine flu scares. It all worked out in the end but I felt like an idiot calling the prof…</p>
I filled out all my D’s college applications for her in my very neat printing (before online apps). She wrote all the essays, but I did all the secretarial work. I would stick a legal pad in front of her–here, write three paragraphs about X, then I would enter it into computer and print. She was working 20 hours per week, in school play or musical, plus full load of classes plus boyfriend. It all got done and she got into a competitive theater program.</p>
<ol>
<li>I had to call the medical school my D was going to attend to tell them that her check she had written for her deposit to hold her place either had bounced or was about to bounce, and could I please send them a new check or put it on my credit card. (Whirr, whirr.) She did do all those applications and essays by herself (I only edited).</li>
</ol>
<p>DMD – you make a valid point but you need to consider the environment; this is a Manhattan law firm where most of the young attys are from ‘well off’ or ‘upper middle class’ families in the NY/NJ/CT area (including the very people who asked these questions). Lots of moms and dads are investment bankers, lawyers, MDs, or have good corporate jobs. It is rare to have someone here who is a first generation grad whose parents are waiters or truck drivers. Of course that isn’t impossible (nor is it impossible for someone to have no relationship with their parents and thus have no one to call) but it is a matter of judgment; in this type of environment, you wouldn’t ask your boss or senior colleagues how to pack a suit or how many shirts to bring. Every incoming junior atty comes in with a whole ‘class’ of other attys; they are your peers and everyone makes several friends in their class pretty quick – you would ask one of them. It’s all a matter of good judgment, which is developed over time starting in HS. It’s troubling when people haven’t developed that judgment by the time they’re in college or in the workplace, and often times it is because the parents have gotten into the habit of taking care of every little thing for their kids because they are SO busy. These kids are always going to be busy – they’re going to pick demanding colleges and demanding careers, so at some point they need to prioritize and I suggest that it be done in HS, since the cost of failure is pretty low in comparison to what it would be later on.</p>
<p>And not to make this a wealth/‘class’ issue, but I think there is far more helicoptering happening, the wealthier the family is. Maybe it’s because the parents who have successful professional careers realize what it took to get there and want to give their kids every chance at success – I’m certain the intentions are good. But the rare attorney that I see who comes from a ‘blue collar’ or regular working/middle class background is usually much more self-sufficient; I strongly believe it’s because they have had to go through life and figure stuff out on their own – i.e. either fight to get the grade they rightfully deserve or decide that they’ll live with that mistaken B+ – because frankly their parents were too busy working or worrying about next month’s mortgage to run to school each time their kid was slighted in some way.</p>
<p>aj725,
DH was a Wharton UG/Ivy law graduate and was the first college student in his family. Zero support from his family, financial or otherwise. Don’t underestimate the separation some first-gen kids feel from their classmates/associates when it comes to this kind of stuff.</p>
<p>I still call my Dad when my car makes a funny noise. He’s a mechanical engineer who loves working on cars and is currently restoring a 1967 Cougar. DH is a wonderful man with many skills, but car repair isn’t among them. When I first got my license, I told my parents I was never going to live more than 15 minutes away from them so Dad could fix my car. Now we live 1000 miles apart. :(</p>
<p>And we call my MIL with medical questions all the time, because she’s a nurse and loves to be the source of info. </p>
<p>I hope my kids will feel free to call us with questions about things when they are adults. </p>
<p>DS is in Barcelona this semester, we are going to visit him in 2 weeks. It will be a weird role reversal - he’ll be the expert on the city, where to go , how to buy things, etc - and he’ll be much better at communicating than we are! I think it will be kind of neat.</p>
<p>Lafalum84- Enjoy your son as a tour guide! Nothing else screams he is an adult more that watching them navigate a foreign county with such ease and wisdom. I was amazed as my daughter showed us around Madrid when we visited during her study abroad semester.</p>
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