Help a mom with a major decision about her son....

Parent Cafe
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<p>I can soooooooo relate to you op. I did not read all of the responses, because I do not think anyone has an answer. I have read many similar threads on CC about similar situations. I’ve noticed it is mostly about sons.</p>

<p>My very, very smart S sits in the basement watching tv or playing a video game as I write. He is a graduate of a top LA university with a major in physics and a minor in math. Lets just say his math sat and math and physics satII were almost perfect. Could have been perfect, but that is part of his problem, didn’t care, never did practice exams. He only graduated college because of extreme intervention on my H and my parts. (And a thank-you to his school) Can’t even begin to go into that nightmare. (Have on prior threads)</p>

<p>He is completely unmotivated and has no ambition. He has a job, but underemployed. I found it. To his credit, it did take an exam and interview with several people, which I had no part in.</p>

<p>Every night he stays up late. Often I yell to him to get to bed. He gets up in the morning later and later and tries to get to his job at the very last minute and is often late.</p>

<p>If he lived on his own, he would not get up and go to his job. Period. That is what he did his last year of school. That is what he often does when my H and I are away.</p>

<p>What is his problem? He is in therapy and on anti depression medication. I see no change.</p>

<p>I have a very attractive, smart and talented son barely getting by. I have read this over and over again on CC. So it is obviously more widespread then some of us think or experience. </p>

<p>I think it is a MEDICAL problem and not a mental problem. Call me a crazy mom, but I believe it is some kind of medical imbalance. I asked my S to have his thyroid and testosterone checked at his next physical. And I’ll go from there.</p>

<p>But people need to be aware that this is a wide spread problem. Whether it is medical, mental or a combination, we need to address it.</p>

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<p>Hi, Brant I read your post with amusement and assume you were making light of things, much of what you said is a glorification of how you think our life is but I assure you its pure fantasy. Yes, he does live a nice life, in a beautiful home,etc…but this is a kid who believe me, you would not want to change places with, he is suffering greatly. Has NO self esteem, is very depressed, has no friends (meaningful friendshps) and has no direction. I would bet you have a lot of confidence, friends, are reasonably happy and have a sense of what you want to do in life. How can you even begin to compare those things with material items like a job handed to someone and a fancy car? Only the most shallow person would opt for all the “perks”. To be a happy and content person is something money cannot buy. And I think I speak for both of us, in that he would trade places any day with someone who may not have the material wealth but an intact sense of self and contentment with his/her life. All the money in the world cannot buy his happiness so it is a mute point.</p>

<p>I know many have suggested this is medical, we had gotten him a thorough physical about 6 months ago but am going to speak to his doctor about a further check and something more comprehensive to rule out anything and everything with certainty. My hunch though is that he is fine, because the testing was pretty extensive and thankfully, all came back right on target.</p>

<p>I did meet with a therapist last night, son did come with me. We spent almost 2 hours there, I think it was successful. This guy is pretty no nonsense and I liked that. One very positive thing that came out of it is my son has agreed to try meds!!! I am very happy about this…now of course we need to oversee that he actually takes them every day but with the many successful stories I have heard about, it does give me hope for sure that this could really help. In addition we are going back to the therapist on Wed. so lets see how that goes.</p>

<p>He agreed with my hunch and what so many of you have suggested, a new set of rules/style of parenting is in order. He asked me what my reasonable expectations would be in order for Will to continue living here…basically they were to hold down a full time job responsibly, and/or go to school, NO POT, to get himself to sleep at a decent time and up at whatever time he has to be up,to take the meds, to continue with weekly therapy and to make an earnest effort to work on building trust again.</p>

<p>He felt they were all very reasonable and we put them down on paper and discussed the “what ifs” which inevitably will happen. I felt good leaving there because he gave me a sense of direction and support, it made me feel empowered. My husband is due in this week so we will go together for the next visit. This could be the beginning of a new day…I know it took a long time to get here and it will take an equally long time to get back but just doing something different and pro active felt good. </p>

<p>We actually sat down and talked last night when we got back and he confessed that he feels very lost and that he is sad because he doesn’t have friends…he chose to not cultivate any new friendships when he started going into this “hole”. But thankfully has always been a kid that people seek out and want to be friends with so I know when he is mentally ready and feeling good about himself again,he will be able to start engaging others his age and hopefully find some meaningful relationships. There is little doubt on my end that most of what he is going through is largely linked to his depression and the therapist feels this way as well based on everything we told him.</p>

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<p>I am a physician. If he has had a thorough physical (he has) and labs (he has) it is not physical. One can hope and pray that there is something that a pill can fix. I suggest, as the OP has realized, this is not physical.</p>

<p>Is he depressed, maybe. But pot and other recreational drugs are depressants. Until he gives that up, even SSRI’s or tricyclic’s or SNRI’s are not going to work miracles. And might not work at all. </p>

<p>The OP and family and friends are enabling this kid. He probably paid for enough stuff over his years that his friends are just giving him the pot. Or he us using more quarters than you think. Or he is selling stuff you have not missed yet. He is getting a pay check, right? Where is it going? </p>

<p>I agree, time for him to be out on is own and learn a thing or two. Sorry, but tough love goes along way. He is not dying of an undiagnosed disease. He is making choices, and he is making his bed. Time to lie down in it.</p>

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<p>Mental illness is a disease, and is not cured by smacks on the head.</p>

<p>Next time you get, say, food poisoning, maybe someone can cure you by smacking your head.</p>

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<p>Oh Brant, Brant, Brant. </p>

<p>I’m sure I am not the only poster here who has been where you are. Suffice it to say that my sob story can beat your sob story, and then some. I would like to offer you the advice of experience. Get over it. Your resentful jealousy changes nothing about the world around you or the people you encounter there. Your attitude serves one purpose only: it makes you an unhappy, negative force in the world, and the world doesn’t need any more of that. </p>

<p>Continue to work hard and make your life better, be proud of what you can accomplish with your financial aid, lousy car and lack of shopping ability. But do not begrudge others the things they have, they are only things. When you truly believe what you have written, that your work ethic and struggles trump the frat boy party life, you will not be so angry.</p>

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<p>Calimom, from your generosity to Brant I’m guessing you are equal to your task. Am so glad therapy has made a small beginning here. And I’m betting your son is relieved too, in some inward way.</p>

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<p>Calimom, Sounds like you have made significant progress in a short time! He is talking to you, seeing a therapist, agreeing with many of your requests/conditions. These are all steps in the right direction. </p>

<p>Don’t bother with posters like the whiny, poor-me, look at what the rich kids can do stuff. Stay focused and strong…you are helping your son and keep your eye on that prize. Maybe today you and D can do something together to lighten things up a bit.</p>

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<p>Calimom,</p>

<p>You story reminds of “ME” “Moa” and yours truly…YES, I was like Will in my days 40 years ago, minus the pot, not because I don’t want but because I can’t get it at the time and place.</p>

<p>I barely finished my HS with 60/100 score. I had to repeat my 10th grade and I took a gap year to no avail. To keep the story short, the thing fixed me up was the millitary, I was drafted at the age of 20 and had to go to a boot camp prior to get into a service unit.</p>

<p>The boot camp was harsh and I matured in that environment. To stay in a service unit for two more years after the boot camp was also a trying period and a learning process. After the millitary service, I truly regained myself and worked double hard in the 3 tier college I went to. I went to classes all year round to catch up and ended up graduating in 3 years with honor. I wasted 4 years of my life to learn the lesson(1 year in HS, 1 gap year and two years in Mil.) and I really needed that.</p>

<p>I would recommend millitary highly for Will if everything else failed, it is the best therapy you can ever find without throw him on the street.</p>

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<p>To sorghum: quote: Mental illness is a disease, and is not cured by smacks on the head.</p>

<p>Often a mentally ill person will need that “smack on the head” to make the decision to start/continue medication and avoid self-medicating w/drinking or illegal drugs. It seems counter-intuitive to use tough love with a mentally ill individual, but it works. It’s similar to the situation where a person is an addict, and loved ones/parents should say “I support you if you are in treatment, but if you refuse you are on your own.” Unfortunately, there are some very difficult decisions that must be made in the case of mental illness and/or addiction. Sounds harsh, but it works.</p>

<p>To Calimom, sounds like you are on the right track, and, more important, that your son is starting to realize that he needs to help himself. Good luck to you!</p>

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<p>SunnyFlorida, If you are a physican, then surely you are aware that mental illness can be fatal. In light of that, I find this statement rather shocking,

</p>

<p>For the all the “he needs a smack upside the head” folks, how many of you are mentally ill?<br>
I am.</p>

<p>How many of you were labeled lazy, unintelligent, disrespectful and worse due to undiagnosed mental illness?<br>
I was.</p>

<p>How many of you have had the experience of finally finding the right medication and being shocked to find that life is not a combination of sorrow, slogging through waist deep mud and using every ounce of energy to just keep your head above water?
That happened to me. </p>

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<p>Unlearning depressive thinking and making new, healthy habits is a difficult but entirely doable process. Finding the right medication can be a very long process in and of itself but your belief that your son can get better, do better and overcome/live with this will go a long way in helping him dig ever deeper to find the will to fight within him. I owe my very life to my husband, who has never stopped fighting with me and on my behalf when I could not fight back on my own. Take care of yourself, this is difficult work.</p>

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<p>Calimom:</p>

<p>So many of us who have sons have gone through similar experiences. I am actually still going through this with my husband who lost $300,000.00 because someone unscrupulous made him a serious of unsecured loans to attach his business and our house. It didn’t work out that way because I was there, but came close.</p>

<p>My S started losing direction his soph year in college under the influence of anti-social GF. The GF is brilliant and successful, but following in her footsteps of smoking pot and just having a general chip on his shoulder and thinking adults crazy, S lost ground academically and in terms of future goals.</p>

<p>There wasn’t anything I could do. We had many fights about the drug use, about the extremely anti-social GF who told S his parents were stupid and not to be listened to about anything.</p>

<p>Anyway, to cut to the chase, S is doing much better. He and GF eventually broke up and S scared himself with some low grades. These were not really his fault because he had no aptitude for the subject and worked very hard in the courses. His mistake was getting into the situation and not dropping the courses. (I would have advised that, but he didn’t want to take my advice about anything so he just didn’t tell me what was going on.)</p>

<p>Anyway, he does have ADD which is very hard to deal with. Medication goes only so far. On his own he decided to find a therapist, and he found one he really liked. He decided to stay at school for the summer and be totally self-supporting. He got a job he liked and stuck with it. He ended up with no money after paying his own room and board, but he did it!!!</p>

<p>He will graduate at the end of the year with no career plans and no clear path. He doesn’t want to make any. He wants a big adventure, like the Peace Corps. I don’t know if he’ll be admitted, or if he is doing what is necessary to be admitted, but I am now totally hands off.</p>

<p>Why am I writing this?</p>

<p>I always get uncomfortable when there is an adversarial tone about child-rearing. The boy in question here is having a problem, no doubt about it, but I also don’t doubt that he would prefer being a credit to himself and making his family proud.</p>

<p>If it were my son I would not take an all or nothing approach. </p>

<p>I would negotiate the job down to a part-time job. If he does well when there, how about three days a week? </p>

<p>To avoid his just getting stoned and sleeping on the off days I would demand something constructive be accomplished even if it’s just a hike. Perhaps a running blog could be kept on this constructive activities working on writing skills.</p>

<p>The pot is delicate. I hate, hate, hate its affect on young people, particularly young men, but until they see that it’s hard to deal with. Again, my son was more amenable to a once or twice-a-week rule than an agreement to stop all together. </p>

<p>If they want out from under our thumbs, sometimes failing is the only way to do that because it’s so not what we want for them.</p>

<p>So foundering a bit did give my son his own voice. At least that’s how he felt.</p>

<p>I kept insisting we were allies not adversaries, whatever the GF was feeding him, but I also refused to support the destructive behavior. Sort of like pugmadkate’s idea of doing everything to support him and nothing to help him fail.</p>

<p>I still don’t know where my S will end up in life. It’s going to take a few more years than I thought it would. But through a thorny collaboration, at least he is at the helm steering a slow, steady course toward stable adulthood.</p>

<p>I came to think this was better than a spoon fed success built on shaky foundations.</p>

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<p>Artloversplus- I would give anything if he joined the military…have pleaded with him several times, think it could be the life changing experience he needs. He desperately needs a change, new place, new people,etc…and obviously needs to grow up, mature learn all about responsibility and independence. As unsure as I am about so much with his life, this much I am sure about. I have felt for almost a year now that that would be a positive change for him, but unfortunately he is not even willing to consider it.</p>

<p>So I continue to speak to him but feel like I am talking to a brick wall. Thankfully my husband is coming back in 2 days and actually trying to get on a flight tomorrow, so we can once again assess the situation, and will meet with therapist. </p>

<p>What scares me is how I am feeling these days, like I am ready to crumble. I am a very strong and proud person, but have to admit lately I feel like I am succumbing to defeat and it scares me to feel so vulnerable. I find myself crying often, avoiding seeing certain people (friends) because it is difficult to put on a smile and carry on as usual. I try to be stoic for the other kids but this is really starting to affect me far more than I was allowing it to before…it is insidious to not only him but all of us.</p>

<p>Sunnyflorida, I totally agree about learning to live in the bed he has made. But without speaking with the authority of a physician, I also know it is a delicate line between nurturing and supporting and seeking help for someone with “mental illness” and throwing them to the wolves (kicking him out) when he is at his most vulnerable low point in his life, feels hopeless and like a nobody. That is like burying someone with no arms, he has absolutely no skills or ability to dig himself out of it, would I ever forgive myself if something happened? Definitely not. </p>

<p>This is very difficult because I am not sure he has the capability to be on his own, he is hurting so deeply. I am going to halt any judgement and decision making until we meet with this therapist again and my husband.</p>

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<p>Calimom,</p>

<p>Americans are too protective of their youngs and a too liberal society as a whole. In my days, when I reach 20 years old and if I were not in college/trade school, I had two choices: to be drafted or go to jail for draft dodging. Well, we cannot turn the clock backwords, so we have to face the music now.</p>

<p>Went to hiking yesterday with a ski buddy of mine. As we walking, we had a chance to chat about his D2. His D1 is an outstanding Jr. in a top tier college just below HPY and is an insperation for my daughter. However, his D2 was influnced by the bad neighbor and went on act just like your Will. I could not belive it when he told me the stories as I met the girl several times just a year ago and she was polite and looked perfectly normal. In just a year, she turned into a tyrant and start to trash her room, her parents’ house, beating her mom and stays out for days at a time. Never mind what kind of drugs she is taking. In such an embarassment, at the last moment, my buddy had to cancel an annual pool party with 50 guests have already been invited.</p>

<p>The only thing he can do to save his D2 is to change D2’s enviroment, because every attempt they tried went into a stone wall. His wife ended up quit her job and took the D2 far away out of state and started a new life with a new HS while he stayed behind to work double hard to support this split family. Its only been one month now and we do not know what will transpire in the ensuing year, but I hope the best of the family.</p>

<p>I can’t suggest you do the same, Calimom, as each of us has different financial strains. But, changing environment is one of the potential solutions for your Will. Therapy may work, only if the kid will listen, in my buddy’s case, his D2 just shut everything they throw at her out, including outside therapy and more.</p>

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<p>Oy.</p>

<p>Also, just about the worse thing I can think of for someone with depression is joining the military, for too many reasons to count. People who make it in the military are far, far more likely to share their story than those who wash out or get released for mental health issues but believe me, there are a whole lot of them.</p>

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<p>I also suggest reading and re-reading collegeshopping’s post. My brother abused drugs and alcohol … and we didn’t know the extent of it until much later in life. He finally hit rock bottom (almost died - he had Type I diabetes, so his habits were especially hard on his body). My parents made him get into residential rehab, and they started going to Families Anonymous. It was a long, hard road to getting him back on his feet. He lost his wife, had to live apart from his child, didn’t have a job, etc. He lived with my parents, with strict rules that he HAD to follow in order to stay. He got a job, eventually moved out, and did very well for many years. He did pass away last year due to an “accidental” OD of prescription narcotics … but we had many wonderful years with him before his addictions won him over.</p>

<p>The point to my post? It may VERY well be that he is a substance abuser. If that is the case, he will have to hit bottom before he deals with his issues. In the meantime, YOU should make sure you join some type of group for support, get counseling, etc. And be sure to protect yourself and your daughter from the actions of your son. I would absolutely not allow pot smoking in my home!!</p>

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<p>And the suicide rate in the military (particularly for those who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan) is frighteningly high. Even if we are now pulling troops from Iraq, it still raises challenges. And the military is not as willing to take the “troubled kids who need to straighten up” as they used to.</p>

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<p>Well, the suicide/death rate for homeless is much higher than those in the military.</p>

<p>We are merely making suggestions for the OP. We have never met the family, not knowing any thing about Will, nor we know much about the environment the family is in. How does calimom taking it is all up to her, nothing more, nothing less.</p>

<p>Imho, if Will is physically fit then the outcome may fall into the followings:</p>

<ol>
<li>Mentally impaired, then medical treatment/therapy or nut house</li>
<li>Drug addict, then rehab center</li>
<li>Inmature and lack of motivation, then throw him on the street or military</li>
</ol>

<p>Any more suggestions?</p>

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<p>

do you have data to support that?? </p>

<p>I am merely providing information that is important for the OP to consider, especially for a son with a H/O depression. With h/o depression and substance use, military will probably not take him.</p>

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<p>Here is a bit on suicide in the military. Don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of family who have been in the military,and I see veterans in my practice. It is difficult on the young recruits and officers . [APNewsBreak:</a> Increase in Suicide Rate of Vets - ABC News](<a href=“http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9531791]APNewsBreak:”>http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9531791)</p>

<p>[Gulf</a> War Syndrome, PTSD and Military Suicides: U.S. Government’s Message to America’s Vets: “Drop Dead”](<a href=“Gulf War Syndrome, PTSD and Military Suicides: U.S. Government's Message to America’s Vets: "Drop Dead" - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on Globalization”>Gulf War Syndrome, PTSD and Military Suicides: U.S. Government's Message to America’s Vets: "Drop Dead" - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on Globalization)</p>

<p>Forgot to mention, there is an overlap between the homeless population (moreso the older homeless folks) and veterans.</p>

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<p>Kelsmom, I wanted to clarify that that is somewhat dated thinking in addiction circles. As with any other disease, there is more emphasis on prevention and early intervention.</p>