High School Question

Parent Cafe
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<p>Here’s a “what would you do” situation for anyone kind enough to offer their thoughts.</p>

<p>My daugher is in 8th grade, going into high school. The high school application process here in NYC is hellacious, to say the least. She received acceptances at one of the specialized schools, Bard Early College High School, the IB program at our local high school, a K-12 Academy (which we hated) and three Catholic schools. For a whole bunch of reasons, one of which was caring for my terminally ill mother-in-law at decision time (she’s since passed away), we decided to keep our daughter in our own borough. She received a full scholarship to the Catholic school that our older daughter attends and at which she is happy. At her admission, D2 was GUARANTEED (their word) admission into either one of two programs. One is a “gifted” program where 15 kids who have been interviewed and found tempermentally suited, spend every period, every day in the same room with the same kids doing collaborative work. My daughter is a huge personality, very non-conformist and, frankly, totally not a team player. So that program was not for her. We selected an accelerated program that begins with, among other classes, AP World History in freshman year (my daughter’s interest) and moves through a total of 12 AP classes, depending on interest. These kids would mix with the rest of school for lunch, gym, religion, language and electives. We loved this program and declined all other options, including a potential scholarship at a very prestigious Catholic school which is all girls whereas my daughter wants co-ed. Well, this is all well and good, but we went to the orientation the other night and found that the program we had accepted had been eliminated and my daughter was dumped into regular, barely-college-prep classes. My older daughter has a similar track and without significant outside help, they are not qualified beyond community college. The course material to succeed in college or present an application is simply not provided to these kids. Now, of course, the admissions process is closed everywhere, but we could (likely) get her into the IB in our local public high school. The program is magnificent, but the neighborhood is horrible and the school is severely overcrowded. We could also wage a huge battle at the Catholic school we accepted, but I’m not sure what outcome would be possible. So my question is this, would you put the kid in the academically stellar program in a hideous neighborhood or would you put her into the school with the scholarship and work like a dog to supplement the school curriculum? Or possibly get a lawyer and find another solution. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.</p>

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<p>Academically stellar program in hideous neighborhood. </p>

<p>Two reasons: it may not be as bad as you think, and it will save you enough to do all kinds of very cool things with your daughters that will further enrich their educations.</p>

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<p>Oh, wow, talk about having the rug being pulled out from under you. I don’t live in NYC, but I had asked for advice regarding schools there for my niece a while back and got some great advice from posters here. Here is a link to that thread : <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=152225[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=152225&lt;/a&gt;. Jack, especially was very helpful. One suggestion that was made to me was to contact the schools even though the registration had closed because there were oftentimes late openings due to transfers, etc. That was in reference to secular private schools, but I would think the parochial schools might have the same situation.
I guess the question I would have for you is “how bad is bad?” when it comes to your local public high school. Are you concerned for her safety?
I’m a little confused about the mention of hiring an attorney. Is it because you think it is possible to legally force them to reinstate the program?
Is it possible to transfer as a soph, even though I could see how that wouldn’t be a preferable option?
I’m sorry you have to deal with this so late in the game. No one likes to deal with stress and uncertainty at the end of the school year.</p>

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<p>"Academically stellar program in hideous neighborhood. </p>

<p>Two reasons: it may not be as bad as you think, and it will save you enough to do all kinds of very cool things with your daughters that will further enrich their educations."</p>

<p>That’s my inclination, as well, if we can get her seat back.</p>

5

<p>“I guess the question I would have for you is “how bad is bad?” when it comes to your local public high school. Are you concerned for her safety?”</p>

<p>Strangely enough, I’m not worried about it too much. It’s a very diverse and dynamic school, although operating at about 175% of capacity, and it is a NYC public high school so there are sometimes arrests and problems. I don’t see my daughter as looking for trouble, so I wouldn’t expect it to find her. Obviously, anything can happen, but I don’t rate the odds too high.</p>

<p>“I’m a little confused about the mention of hiring an attorney. Is it because you think it is possible to legally force them to reinstate the program?
Is it possible to transfer as a soph, even though I could see how that wouldn’t be a preferable option?”</p>

<p>She has a full tuition scholarship, but we’ve had to layout a bit of money for fundraisers, fees, books, etc., and I do want that money back because this was not our choice. Theoretically it would be possible to transfer as a soph, but with the mix of classes they have for her, she would be very far behind where she should be and I don’t know if she would be accepted in programs to which she was accepted for this year. It would be like repeating 8th grade again.</p>

<p>“I’m sorry you have to deal with this so late in the game. No one likes to deal with stress and uncertainty at the end of the school year.”</p>

<p>Thank you very much. The school had several opportunities to inform the affected students and chose to spring this on us when it was pretty much too late to do anything.</p>

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<p>Disappointing to say the least. But getting a lawyer? Remember, it’s a private school that is offering your daughter a full ride. Involving a lawyer will only taint the relationship your family will have to maintain with the school for the next four years. </p>

<p>I’m curious as to why this school only has such drastically polarized programs: a dozen AP courses for one group vs. community college prepation for the other. I’ve never heard of such a thing. I think it would not be a good choice even if the program was still in operation. (Incidently, did you check to see the passing rates for the AP kids? There is a big difference between offering all those courses and successfully preparing kids to achieve 4s & 5s on the exams. Some schools don’t even require kids to sit for the exams, or discourage a struggling kid to sit so as to beef up the school’s passing rates. Check that out. Imagine if you retained a lawyer, reinstated the program, and found it to be less than expected anyway!) Plus, the AP kids would likely be out of place in social & extra curricular settings all throughout the four years in this setting. And without the school day AP instruction, your d will be so busy supplementing her weak curriculum, she won’t have much time left to enjoy any ec activities that the school offers anyway.</p>

<p>I’d vote against a dangerous neighborhood for school. So much of the fun of h.s. is outside & extra-curricular socializing. I’d be a nervous wreck if my d wanted to grab a slice of pizza after school in a hideous neighborhood. Think of the added dangers of late-night sports or play practices or yearbook metings or dances… </p>

<p>Have you considered approaching the other Catholic schools to which she applied? Perhaps have your d talk to girls who attend the all-girl school? My d attends one & loves it. She’s been chosen to be a school ambassador & give presentations & tours to potential freshmen, and the school wants her to address the question of “How do you meet boys?” (I’m assuming that’s part of your d’s hesitancy.) Does the all-girl school have a relationship with a local all-boy school? That helps.</p>

<p>I’d really try to find a school that has a majority of like-minded, serious students. After a week at my d’s challenging h.s., she told me that she loves it because, “Everybody is smart.” That makes a huge difference in her motivation and enjoyment of her classes. It sounds as if your d would be short-changed in this school.</p>

<p>Good luck! The upside is that you still have time to sort it out for the fall.</p>

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<p>Academically stellar, plus call the admissions office of every school you can, beginning with the other schools that already accepted her. You just never know, but it won’t happen if you don’t call. What are the chances of homeschooling if the academically stellar program is just too scary?</p>

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<p>I agree with the majority–since you don’t seem totally aghast at the idea of the public school, then the good academics seem like your best bet. You’re NYC people, and I imagine that you would be more sanguine about the “bad neighborhood”, which, since it’s your local school, I imagine isn’t that far from your own neighborhood. Our HS has/had its share of fights and arrests, but it didn’t seem to affect my kids–different worlds in the same school. (Not NYC, but a somewhat depressed inner suburb type school).</p>

<p>If you could lock that up, and then pursue openings at the other places, I think that would be your best bet.</p>

<p>And I also agree, this stinks! Best of luck to you and your family in dealing with this.</p>

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<p>Disappointing to say the least. But getting a lawyer? Remember, it’s a private school that is offering your daughter a full ride. Involving a lawyer will only taint the relationship your family will have to maintain with the school for the next four years."</p>

<p>Yes, but I would like to have my money back. It’s several thousand dollars and they swear that we can’t have it.</p>

<p>“I’m curious as to why this school only has such drastically polarized programs: a dozen AP courses for one group vs. community college prepation for the other. I’ve never heard of such a thing.”</p>

<p>The school was, for many years, the Catholic school of choice for the average kids in the community (the other Catholic schools only take the very best and brightest), but the admininstration decided in the last few years to make a pitch for those bright kids and created the program that D2 was accepted for. Seemed wonderful, but they brought in a new Dean of Students who created the isolated program and both co-existed for a while, but it seems that the goal was to push out the Chairman of the program that we liked, so they eliminated that program entirely. My suspicion is that they’re trying to become a more elite school but need to do it slowly, thus the gap between the top and bottom. They’re having the bottom kids graduate and be replaced by very bright kids.</p>

<p>“I think it would not be a good choice even if the program was still in operation. (Incidently, did you check to see the passing rates for the AP kids? There is a big difference between offering all those courses and successfully preparing kids to achieve 4s & 5s on the exams.”</p>

<p>No!! I didn’t think of that, but since it’s a private school, they’re statistics are not public. The school only allows certain kids to take AP classes and has the same policy for upper Regents exams like Math B and Science classes beyond the basics.</p>

<p>Plus, the AP kids would likely be out of place in social & extra curricular settings all throughout the four years in this setting. And without the school day AP instruction, your d will be so busy supplementing her weak curriculum, she won’t have much time left to enjoy any ec activities that the school offers anyway.</p>

<p>“I’d vote against a dangerous neighborhood for school. So much of the fun of h.s. is outside & extra-curricular socializing. I’d be a nervous wreck if my d wanted to grab a slice of pizza after school in a hideous neighborhood. Think of the added dangers of late-night sports or play practices or yearbook metings or dances…” </p>

<p>The thing about my specific community (Staten Island) is that there isn’t a lot of interaction in the immediate areas around any schools. There are hub type of situations (the mall, etc.) where all the kids go to geographic areas to do the things you suggested. Most schools are in strictly residential neighborhoods, so the Catholic schools would present the same exact situation.</p>

<p>“Have you considered approaching the other Catholic schools to which she applied? Perhaps have your d talk to girls who attend the all-girl school? My d attends one & loves it. She’s been chosen to be a school ambassador & give presentations & tours to potential freshmen, and the school wants her to address the question of “How do you meet boys?” (I’m assuming that’s part of your d’s hesitancy.) Does the all-girl school have a relationship with a local all-boy school? That helps.”</p>

<p>I’m going to start making calls now, but I’m not sure if finances will allow us to pay full tuition.</p>

<p>“I’d really try to find a school that has a majority of like-minded, serious students. After a week at my d’s challenging h.s., she told me that she loves it because, “Everybody is smart.” That makes a huge difference in her motivation and enjoyment of her classes. It sounds as if your d would be short-changed in this school.”</p>

<p>That is great advice.</p>

<p>Good luck! The upside is that you still have time to sort it out for the fall.</p>

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<p>Application process is hellacious and now you get hellacious-squared. :mad: Sheesh.</p>

<p>cangel pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

</p>

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<p>Another thought about the scholarship Catholic school…</p>

<p>Chances are, it has a poor guidance department & will not serve your d well as college approaches.</p>

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<p>"Another thought about the scholarship Catholic school…</p>

<p>Chances are, it has a poor guidance department & will not serve your d well as college approaches."</p>

<p>Have you read my posts about the 80-year old priest who NEEDS to retire?</p>

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<p>We spent over $100,000 to get our son an IB education at a private school, k-12 (<a href=“http://www.wis.edu)%5B/url%5D”>www.wis.edu)</a>. If you can get for free do it. IB is great although I am not so thrilled with IB programs that begin in high school. I don’t think that students get the full benefit of what IB has to offer.</p>

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<p>Just read this thread, and without hesitation, I say “put the kid in the academically stellar program in a hideous neighborhood.” Our daughter attended public inner-city magnet schools, with “academicallly stellar programs” (including IB), for both middle and high school. The middle school was physically crumbling on the outside, surrounded by equally crumbling housing projects built in the 50’s, only just recently torn down, and a somewhat dangerous neighborhood, but the school itself was outstanding. She had the choice of attending a private middle and high school, or attending her base middle and high schools, all of which were in nicer neighborhoods, but not nearly as strong academically, nor as diverse. She chose to go to these inner-city magnet schools–simply because they were so outstanding in every regard (except for the “hideous neighborhoods”). And neither she, nor we, ever regretted it. </p>

<p>Her high school was also inner-city magnet, though located in a nicer and much safer neighborhood. In addition to the stellar academics, faculty, and outstanding visual and performing art programs, the student population was truly diverse–and everybody got along. Her high school served her very, very well–excellent in every regard. She also had a great peer group–and it was “cool to be smart” in both her middle and high schools. Makes a big difference.</p>

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<p>I don’t have much advice, just egad…</p>

<p>If nothing else, your post reminds to be nice, as you have done, to those schools we say no to, because you never know</p>

<p>good luck and i think it will work out, but still egad</p>

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<p>Have you considered Brooklyn Latin? It’s a new public high school copy of Boston Latin. I know a couple of kids from my son’s school who did not get a good match in round one were able to get in late. Brooklyn Latin is projected to be the next specialized HS, maybe next year. Again, not a great neighborhood and probably a tough commute from SI.</p>

<p>Was SI-Tech the specialized school your D matched? You might well be able to beg them for a spot.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Personally I would want my kids in the same school that way I could be involved and stay on top of things for them both. If thats not a concern just let her choose where she would rather go. I wouldn’t be worried about overcrowding at the public either…that seems to be par for the course just about everywhere. Additionally, I think a bright student will shine anywhere and will eventually reach their potential even they are not afforded every opportunity in high school. Even a minimum public school education usually allows students entry into more than community colleges so there should still be lots of choices. And it sounds like the Catholic school does have an interest in attracting and retaining better students so they will most likely be putting something on the plate to do that.</p>

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<p>Zoosermom:</p>

<p>It really is a shame that the school pulled such a number.
I add my voice to send your child to the academically stellar school, especially if you are not too concerned about the neighborhood. It is very important for students to be with their intellectual peers.<br>
Good luck trying to recover your money.</p>

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<p>I’d always choose top academics, if I had a child who needed such an environment to thrive. Sounds like you have a good plan. And good luck to your DD.</p>

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<p>"Was SI-Tech the specialized school your D matched? You might well be able to beg them for a spot.</p>

<p>Good luck."</p>

<p>Thank you! She was matched to Brooklyn Tech because she was interested in the media and architecture programs but my Mother-in-Law was at the end stage of cancer (we didn’t know how close to the end), so daughter didn’t want to commute. Actually, she still doesn’t. She was matched to Bard, too, and then Petrides through a convoluted process. We hated Petrides with a raging passion.</p>