<p>Huh? Couldn’t any student write/organize a nice tribute to any teacher–including your kids? </p>
<p>I don’t get the level of venom, beruah. Why dump on kids who have loved working with one teacher? Go ahead and condemn the teacher for the level of affection expressed. I don’t happen to agree with that condemnation but feel free to express your extreme distaste–but why condemn the teenage writer?</p>
<p>^^There was no venom in that post, cheers. In fact, it was a very positive post about two exceedingly dedicated teachers that deserved some recognition. </p>
<p>The high school newspaper has a staff. My kids, not being members of that staff, are not allowed to make those sorts of contributions. Just as with the yearbook, it is the job of the newspaper staff to determine what is newsworthy. And just like with the yearbook, they chose the less deserving subject to write about.</p>
<p>No venom there, sweetie. Just an honestly expressed opinion. One that I’m entitled to–and one that is also shared by many others who have shared their opinions with me, inlcuding many of the graduating seniors who had one or the other or both of the tremendous math teachers! :)</p>
<p>p.s. If you want to see “venom” about undeserving rewards being meted out, read the venting thread. I am far from alone in wanting to see deserving people rewarded rather than having rewards handed out on the basis of “popularity” with the powers-that-be (whether that be administration or journalism staff).</p>
<p>cheers–Yes, H went to the same HS, but he was a year behind me, and it was an enormous school, so we didn’t meet till I met him at his Mom’s house, after I’d graduated. (So my kids definitely appreciate my friendship with the teacher ;)).</p>
<p>When I responded to the initial post, (this was the second post on this thread), I was ONLY looking at the quote by the student journalist about a teacher with whom she was close. Based on that quote, I didn’t observe impropriety. I think teachers should always maintain authority and professionalism. However, I have seen teachers or EC activity mentors become close with students. I see this as a close mentorship/frienship, but each know their own roles. </p>
<p>However, I didn’t realize when I was responding to the first post, that this was really part of a larger CONTEXT. This is the teacher that berurah already has taken issue with on the yearbook stuff a while back, and whatever else. By the way, I had agreed at the time of that thread, that the yearbook should have included academic awards, etc. So, really this quote is a bit out of context. I think B has other issues with the teacher and so I think this thread or issue for Berurah is beyond the quote or perceived friendship a teacher has with some students. I don’t feel I know enough to comment, therefore. I was only commenting on the friendship and the quote by the student who liked this mentor/teacher, all of which seemed fine to me. I think Berurah has feelings about this teacher that go beyond the friendship with certain students and the quote that started this thread, as evidenced in the further discussion that has taken place that go beyond what was presented in the initial post. That’s not a problem or anything but a different situation than the initial quote/issue.</p>
<p>My kids have been close to some teachers or educators. They are friendly but still the person is a mentor and professional about it. For instance, both my girls feel close to our their guidance counselor (both have had the same one since middle school). He often came to see them in their events outside of school (ie., recitals, shows, sports events). They stay in touch while now in college and also see him when home for a break, as they have done since they got home earlier this week. The last time both were home five months ago and again while they are home for a few weeks now, have gone out to brunch on a Sunday with him to catch up, etc. This GC is someone we also feel a friendship with through school, and related to school and the kids. It is always professional in my view. This GC of his own choice, spent the day with us in the hospital while our daughter was in surgery, as well as came to visit her. He came to our graduation parties/open houses following the graduation. So, there is a friendship there but it is a mentorship, someone they can confide in or share about their lives, but is not their closest chum. They, and all the kids at school, call him by his first name as well. They have also called all of their coaches and EC teachers by their first name too. They don’t have nicknames for these people but I don’t think it is far fetched if students make up a nickname for teachers they are close to. That is the kind of thing I saw in the original quote on this thread. However, it appears that there is more to why B might not like this teacher and so I think this quote is part of a larger context of issues that concern B about this teacher, and not just the level of friendship/mentorship a teacher can have with students.</p>
<p>In terms of a mentorship or friendship between a teacher and student, I think there can be a close friendship while still maintaining authority and professionalism. It crosses the line when the friendship is more of an equal playing field personally and socially.</p>
<p>PS, Garland…love your story!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Little unpleasant story for you. Here is happy suburbia, my older son had a science teacher in middle school. Nicest guy you’d want to meet. I’d seen him at our church. Coached a girls’ sport. Of course I went in to meet him at parent conferences as I have gone to every single one of my kids’ parent conferences since preschool, which was actually often very difficult with a 5 year age difference between my kids because my husband travels for his work a great deal. </p>
<p>As it turned out, my younger son also had this teacher in middle school, years later. I went in again to the conference. Yes, by this time I thought I knew this teacher quite well, and he was, in fact, a pretty good science teacher compared to some others my kids have had.</p>
<p>Well a year or so ago, guess what? This teacher was caught not only secretly videotaping the young girls in his classes, but posting the pictures on the internet.</p>
<p>I guess I’m off base, Opie, but it seems to me that the administration in the school and his fellow teachers are the ones who should have been on top of this situation, especially since, as it turned out, there had been complaints from some parents about his behavior with the girls over the years.</p>
<p>You may wonder what happened to him: well, he was let go, but other than that we’ll never know, because our newspapers do not report on such matters.</p>
<p>Obviously there is no way a parent could have predicted this by going to parent-teacher conferences. Your attempt to try to blame parents for anything and everything wrong with public education is really becoming an outrage–to stack outrage on top of outrage! </p>
<p>And yes, the rewards are “meaningless.” They fit the definition of meaningless, exactly. But they make everyone feel good–their only purpose.</p>
<p>
“O wad some Pow’r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us…”</p>
<p>I don’t get the level of venom, kluge…</p>
<p>BTW, the math teachers were not my kids’ favorite teachers. My daughters’ favorite teacher is the choir instructor, and my son’s favorite teachers were two hard science teachers, chemistry and physics.</p>
<p>I am fully able, though, to recognize a very honorable combined 60 years of service to our district and to our community by the husband and wife math teacher team, even if they WEREN’T <em>my</em> kids favorite teachers, which really was, actually, the point I was trying to make kluge. So, thanks! :)</p>
<p>p.s. In the future, I’d prefer you not alter a direct quote of mine when all of the information is right there. This was done solely to promote your own (warped) agenda, and I don’t appreciate it.</p>
<p>Here was the piece as <em>I</em> wrote it. Nowhere does it claim that those teachers were my kids’ favorites.
</p>
<p>
I feel that the journalism sponsor’s intimate relationships with her journalism students DID have an effect on the the way she ran her class and on the choices that she ultimately made to relinquish the generally accepted role of mentor/leader in favor of one as a peer. This is not the only teacher/student relationship like this, though, so I was interested to hear what others thought of teachers behaving more as students’ friends (sharing text messages, myspaces, facebooks, etc., as this journalism instructor does with her favorite students) than as authority figures and role models. </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Example of venom:
</p>
<p>Not so much venom:
</p>
<p>It appears that the teacher who triggered Berurah’s ire is Jill Chittum (hence the otherwise curious references to “Chicken” and Chitty" mentioned early in the thread) A little about her:
She also appears to have been active as a volunteer in unpaid extra-curricular activities on behalf of students interested in journalism and photography: the Kansas Scholastic Press Association, the Journalism Education Association. She was also chosen to teach at the American Society of Newspaper Editors annual High School Journalism Institute at the Graduate School of Journalism at the University of California last year. </p>
<p>Well - obviously not the kind of person we want teaching our little ones, eh? Fortunately, it appears that she’s been successfully run out of Wichita, and won’t be in a position to poison any more young minds there. (…can you say <strong>SUCCESS</strong>??) How dare those students “gush” over this undeserving teacher, instead of the ones wiser heads would have chosen for them to be inspired by?</p>
<p>"Obviously there is no way a parent could have predicted this by going to parent-teacher conferences. Your attempt to try to blame parents for anything and everything wrong with public education is really becoming an outrage–to stack outrage on top of outrage! "</p>
<p>Actually what’s becoming obvious is the self rightousness of a couple of posters here and there. You struggle so hard to make an example that is so far out there. You’re reaching, you have too because it would be surrender to agree with me that the first step is visit your kids teachers, get to know them… Now to attempt to slam me, that is coming off as some sort of bad idea? C’mon now you and a few others here know why you have problems with educators, why they don’t really want to deal with you, don’t you? </p>
<p>it’s them!!! it’s them!! it’s them!! no, it’s not, it’s you. </p>
<p>Yes, the science guy was a bad experience, a bad seed, a devil. And that’s what you have to refute my suggestions??? Please… be outraged all you want, it’s something youre good at.</p>
<p>Wow nice detective work Kluge. </p>
<p>It always has been the difference between a good teacher and a bad teacher are parent’s view of the same teacher. </p>
<p>Contrary to what some believe, I don’t love all teachers (as if that would be a terrible choice… remember Jesus is watching all the time) I choose to support those who are great teachers, working hard for somebody else’s kids. The ones I don’t like (yes, there’s been a few) I don’t waste much thought on, because to do so would give them power over me. For some here, your bitterness is a cancer eating away at you. Is that what you want your life to be? Some of you hate me for supporting teachers. Man, I pitty you… What’s become of your lives?</p>
<p>
You’re right. Not everyone is teacher material, despite her accomplishments. This woman didn’t know how to respect the sensibilities of a community–and didn’t care to. She refused to work with parents who asked questions, politely at first. She only spoke through her friends (oops, I mean students) in defending her decision to omit all academics from a high school publication, in defending her decision to glorify maladaptive behaviors that had nothing to do with school sponsored activities. She was unwilling to compromise and include such things as NMFs, governor’s scholars, KU honor scholars, WSU honor scholars, or departmental academic awards. In short, kluge, she never did learn the simple lesson of “playing well with others.” I can only hope that her students ultimately learned the importance of this very crucial life lesson–that you are not an island, no matter how “accomplished” you are. I hope that they learned that if you are paid by tax dollars, you will have to answer to someone. Or, in this case, to a bunch of someones.</p>
<p>BTW, my daughter is in choir with several students who work on the newspaper/yearbook staff. One girl who spoke to my daughter is a STAUNCH supporter of Ms. Chittum, yet admitted to my D that the <em>ONLY</em> reason this stuff was included in the yearbook was to “win national awards.” Too bad Ms. Chittum cared more about her selfish desires to win awards and build her resume than she did about teaching her students the more important life lessons that most of them will be using in their futures. Like, that sometimes the ends do not justify the means and that compromise is a worthwhile endeavor. If she had been as committed to doing these things as she was to her own goals, she’d still be gainfully employed here. </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>In all fairness, I support teachers too, as many others on the thread. I was a teacher myself, after all! But even so, my kids have had just a couple (thankfully in the minority) who have done things that are unprofessional (not talking friendship issues) or have not been very good. This is true in any profession. Having been a teacher, I’ve tried hard as a parent to work WITH the teachers in a supportive way even when I have had a concern. I have tried hard to approach it as, “We’re a team, and so there are some issues I need help working out with you in order to help my child…” sort of way. I don’t blame teachers. But there have been a couple who even though we have gone in as very supportive in tone but asking to work together to solve a problem, who have been unprofessional and just a bad experience. But the majority are great and go beyond the job, etc. But I don’t think it is fair to say that if someone has a legitimate complaint with the teacher, that the fault must lie with the parents. Sometimes the issue is very legit and the teacher makes no effort to work together to solve it and doesn’t want to hear from parents at all, and so forth. I have some bad stories to tell too. But it doesn’t mean I don’t support teachers. We are extremely supportive of teachers and have a good track record that way, as well as through service to the schools. Still we have had a couple of bad experiences, and it isn’t because we have acting poorly. There are a couple teachers who don’t want to work with parents at all. So, I wouldn’t knock a parent who has a story to tell about a teacher who did something not too professional. I am not talking of the Kansas teacher here at all, by the way.</p>
<p>Unrelated to the above…I don’t think it is so odd that kids might call a teacher by a nickname, particularly a teacher who has a closeness with students. That would not bother me.</p>
<p>I’m still confused a bit by the topic of this thread. Close friendships with students are one issue. But it seems that this is just a subset of issues you have with this teacher and it all is going back to the yearbook issues discussed last year (or whenever that was a while back). I think you don’t like how she handled that. I understand some of the concerns you had with yearbook content. I think talking about her closeness with students is separate. Or maybe it is just venting about everything about her given your concerns over the handling of the yearbook? It seems like this is more than simply an issue/topic over teachers who are friendly mentors with students. It seems like your concerns are about this teacher overall.</p>
<p>B,</p>
<p>don’t take this the wrong way but every second you dwell on this teacher is a second she owns you. As I read more and more, you slip farther and farther under her control. She has control of your mood and attitude. </p>
<p>Before this what I seem to recall is someone who posts “hugs” alot, now your a different person. If she did wrong, she got her comuppence, didn’t she? </p>
<p>My kids yearbooks weren’t all that great either and because they weren’t on the staff or new those kids, even fewer pictures of mine are in their yearbooks and both were Vals and one was male student of the year… </p>
<p>Yes, the guy that ran the yearbook that year was a dumb ass and he is no longer there. He also had some different ideas…HE clashed with parents and fellow teachers about content as well. </p>
<p>But guess what it’s been 4 years, I’m going to my kids graduation next week (med school this fall) and I haven’t thought about it till five seconds ago. I can barely remember his name and the yearbook? it sits collecting dust in my S’s room. I knew this teacher in other aspects of HS life as well, a smart stupid person and I shouldn’t have to explain that expression. Every second I think about him is a second he steals from my life… I think i’ll stop him at about 30 seconds… hopefully you understand my point…</p>
<p>
Soozie~</p>
<p>I truly thank you for this voice of reason. I was a teacher in my past life also, and I’ve rarely in 14 years of having six children in the public schools EVER taken a position against a teacher. I really can’t even think of one other time. I think anyone who knew me IRL would be VERY hard pressed to tag me a “teacher hater” or a “trouble maker” within the public school system. To the contrary, my record of public service to this district through volunteering both in the classroom and out (via site councils, parent organizations, etc.) speaks for itself. </p>
<p>You’re right, soozie. Sometimes situations arise that beg for parent intervention. Lest anyone should think my lobbying for academics to be included along with everything else in a yearbook was for selfish purposes only, let me assure you that it was not. In fact, my highly acadmemic kid was already out of the school and neither of my daughters stood to be featured that year for anything. So, my efforts truly WERE “for the children”–not <em>my</em> children–and for the benefit of a community that markets itself almost exclusively on its “superior” school system.</p>
<p>If all of the parents who took issue with this journalism instructor and her lack of responsiveness to our concerns are all troubled, we, indeed, have a very troubled community. Our petition was signed by between 500-1000 citizens, and we represented many, many more who were afraid to sign or comment because of affiliations with the school district, though a good number of teachers also signed openly. To peg everyone who had an issue with this perhaps talented woman but extremely misguided TEACHER as having some “issue” or excessive “venom” is simply ludicrous. And it demonstrates the same problem that ended this teacher’s position–an unwillingness to LISTEN to others and respect differing but equally valid opinions.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Kluge, you’e really playing dirty here. You want to convince posters that Berurah’s posts are filled with venom, so you quote her and CONVENIENTLY leave out all the wonderful praise she offers for a pair of veteran teachers. Here are her actual words:
You condense this into an innacurate phrase of your own: “my favorite teachers.”</p>
<p>Quite a change in meaning & tone, I would say. Your choice of words leaves the impression that Berurah likes them because they gave good grades to her kids, or they happen to be friends outside of school. Her ACTUAL quote shows admiration for years of dedicated service to the school, most of which Berurah did not even experience.</p>
<p>“But I don’t think it is fair to say that if someone has a legitimate complaint with the teacher, that the fault must lie with the parents”</p>
<p>And have I really said that or has it been twisted to mean that? I mean it’s like I don’t support the president so I must hate the troops…</p>
<p>What I have said for clairity is it IS the parents responsiblity to get to know their kids teachers long before they run to the school board or superintendent. Hell, I even seen parents call the state office of instruction to complain… about nothing. That is why nothing happens in response which leads to this snowball of anger rolling down hill. Some issues just aren’t really issue enough to spend reasources on. </p>
<p>I’ve read your post and I agree with it because it is how I would approach it too. I never said it’s always the parents fault, but really have you really read some of these complaints… “A long term sub, telling a class he used to play pianio at a bar underage with a fake id…” That warrants a call to the prinicpal? Honestly, don’t you feel that was an unnecessary call? I do. That a situation where a parent should explain to their child the possible circumstances where that could happen. I mean she didn’t even know the LTS was in his 60’s and quite simply could have been helping his family pay rent prior to WW2. And yes, I could be completely wrong, but again, this warranted a call to the prinicpal? If I were that prinicpal I would avoid taking those kind of calls. </p>
<p>{to no one person, but in general]</p>
<p>I’m sorry no matter how anybody here tries to spin it, it make perfect sense to know your kids teachers and talk with them first about your concerns and listen to them about theirs regarding your child… Spin away all who need to. I don’t think I’m coming off in a lesser light for that bit of advice. You certainly don’t have to take it and you certainly can do what you think is right. It doesn’t mean however, that you will be taken seriously.</p>
<p>Opie, like you, my post wasn’t directed to any particular poster here either. I see that you took it to mean I was talking about you but I wasn’t. I was thinking about thoughts I had read in the discussion and added my thoughts. I couldn’t even tell you who had said what. I’d have to go figure it out and it likely was a conglomeration of several posts. I, too, was talking “in general” as you say you are at the end of your last post. </p>
<p>By the way, I agree that parents should go to a teacher FIRST, before talking to an administrator. That is what is called the “chain of command” at our school and we always abide by that. I think one should try to solve an issue with the teacher directly. If that is not effective, then talk to a supervisor and/or ask for a team meeting. As well, a parent needs to weigh how important the matter is and if it is worth going in to talk about it or not. Some things are not worth it. But some are.</p>