<p>With regard to dress codes:</p>
<p>My daughter goes to a school with very few dress restrictions. She and several of her friends have chosen to dress in a manner that clearly conveys the message “I am not a slut.”</p>
<p>In a school with a strict dress code, they would not have the opportunity to make this impression, would they? </p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
<p>No, Marian, they would not. As a teacher, though, I really appreciate those who go out of their way to look presentable and appropriate each day. I’m sure your daughter’s teachers feel the same way, too.</p>
<p>Our entire school does often get complimented on how nicely our students dress. They don’t wear fancy clothes (mostly jeans), but they do adhere to a strict dress code that keeps them a little more focused on academics than on who looks or does not look “slutty.”</p>
<p>
memie~</p>
<p>I appreciate your dress code comments and can totally see where you are coming from (and where your school district is coming from). I don’t mind a reasonable dress code. As a responsible mother with a masters in education, though, I feel that the dress code at the sixth grade center is a bit overboard. The high school dress code is <em>MUCH</em> more liberal, and where I have a problem with THAT one is in our district’s inconsistent application of it. For example, one day my oldest D went to school with a folded pink scarf in her hair, worn as a headband, and was asked to remove it because it was “gang wear” and distracting!? 
</p>
<p>At the same time, there was a <em>boy</em> running around the school in a black dress, heels, and Goth make-up and for whatever reason, that was allowed to stand (mostly because the authorities are fearful of kids like this and leave them alone). By the same token, the “popular” girls are not called on their midriff baring shirts or mico-mini skirts whereas everyone else IS. If our district is going to HAVE a dress code, I’d like to see it universally and consistently enforced.</p>
<p>Again, the reason I brought up the sixth grade center’s strict dress code was to use it to demonstrate the incongruity of the district’s stand on “values.” </p>
<p>I myself am actually more inclined to agree with this:
I simply do not see the connection between banning certain items (like a pink headband) and learning. This gratuitous nitpicking is, IMHO, more “distracting” than some of the clothing itself. I have never been a micro-managing mother, though admittedly, I have not found the need to be. But in part, I think that my kids DO the right thing because I do not overrun them with “no’s” and “don’ts” over minor issues of personal choice, choosing instead to be strict about the BIG ISSUES. That way, they KNOW when I mean business. I personally don’t really CARE what my kids wear as long as their clothing covers a sufficient amount of their bodies and they show no disrespect to others by wearing t-shirts with offensive sayings. As long as they go to school and learn, take part in some productive extracurriculars, and behave, I’m happy. :)</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>When you have known gang members in your community (and in your school) as we do, we have to ban even the bandannas from all of our kids. A lot of the male dress code does relate directly to trying to discourage gang-related behavior among our students. </p>
<p>As for girls’ dress code, our teachers often comment that it is distracting to teach when you are addressing a “sea of cleavages” in the classroom! </p>
<p>If all parents and students were as responsible as you are, Berurah, with regards to their expectations for their kids’ dress, then we would not have to be so “nit-picky” with our dress code. Unfortunately, in this day and age,
we have little to no contact with dead-beat parents who do not even communicate with their kids regularly. The school has had to assume so many responsibilities that should really come from the home.</p>
<p>
AIN’T THAT THE TRUTH!!! <em>sigh</em> ~berurah</p>
<p>Okay, don’t know if this is true or not, but my son (home on break) claims that a friend at his college says that his highschool yearbook has a section for “families of students” (that would be the students’ children). </p>
<p>Definitely something I had not thought of before . . .</p>
<p>berurah–I wish you luck with the school/superintendant.</p>
<p>I believe that I grew up in the city near where you live. I can’t tell you how many times when I lived there that I questioned what people thought was ok, but I felt it was wrong. </p>
<p>It can be difficult–but I encourage you to stick to it. More people will come forward and join you.</p>
<p>
I’m not defending the way some teenage girls dress, but this strikes me as ridiculous. Do they have trouble in other activities – at the mall, in church, in other workplaces, at Starbucks? I would hope they’d be too busy teaching to be staring at teenage girls’ cleavage.</p>
<p>Personally, I don’t care to see a lot of cleavage on any female in any place! I just think it looks tacky!!! Most of the kids who work at after school jobs have decent uniforms that show that they are there to work, not to show their body parts that nobody wants to see. </p>
<p>School is for education, not for making a fashion statement. Church is for worshipping, not for making a fashion statement. …and the list goes on…
Sure, they can dress how they please as long as it satisfies their employers, parents, etc. when they are not at school.</p>
<p>We are all human, and it’s hard NOT to notice who is dressed inappropriately when teaching a class of teens. It’s particularly distasteful to be viewing “butt cracks” when the kids bend over or are sitting at their desks taking a test, and I am a stand-at-the-back of the room monitor whenever my students take a test.</p>
<p>Why is it so hard for people to just dress a little more conservatively when not at home, not at the beach, etc.???</p>
<p>Memie, I agree with you in general. But it seems silly to focus on this one issue with girls. Schools should have, and enforce, a reasonable dress code. To have such a code and then not enforce it just teaches kids that rules are meant to be broken. I’m happy that my son’s school requires dress shirts, dress pants, dress shoes, and ties on occasion. They still manage to look like slobs as soon as the last class is dismissed, but the philosophy is that education is a serious business and students should dress as if they were going to the office. Of course, it’s an all-boys school so cleavage is not an issue.</p>
<p>my fear is that they are blaming the girls for boys not being able to focus…as if the boys have no self control…</p>
<p>sounds a bit like some other places around the world, doesn’t it…the female must not show anything to cause the males to be distracted or lose control or whatever, not addressing the idea that the boys should have some class themselves…</p>
<p>to me, tacky is seeing the entire backside of a young man cause his pants are belted at his knees</p>
<p>but to blame the females because the males cant pay attention please, very slippery slope…burcka anyone</p>
<p>The guys at our school probably violate the dress code more often than the girls due to the baggy pants that expose their backsides. They, too, are highly disciplined for it. It is not just a girls’ issue at all. I just got off a little too much on the girls’ side probably because I have only daughters in my home.</p>
<p>Berurah:</p>
<p>After reading some about some incidents on this board — your rape story and also the fake-deer-on-the-road story — I realize that our football coach is a person of exceptional integrity in regard to setting limits and enforcing them. He has a 25-year much beloved career in our community so his job security is rock solid no matter what kind of record the football team might have. The story went that he had sat the whole team down and warned them that drinking or drug use at dances or other activities would not be tolerated, had them and their parents sign an acknowledgement of the warning, and stressed that the consequences would be getting dropped from the team “no matter who you are.” He was true to his word. I’m sure he was lobbied by the parents, and the principal and superintendent probably were lobbied too, to make the punishment less severe and “save the season.” Although the football team did not have as successful a season without the senior quarterback, there was and still is a widespread sense of pride among parents at our school that the “grown ups” had the backbone to send a zero-tolerance message to all the kids in the school. I mean, two seniors and a junior including the starting quarterback, were off the team at the start of the season. Every single student knew about this very public reaction to a drinking incident and it was talked about for the rest of the year. </p>
<p>On the yearbook front, I hope you get a committee of parents and students together so you don’t appear to be the sole “gadfly” waving your arms in the air about this. I was going to suggest taking it to your school board, but they sound like a bunch of rubber stampers for whatever the school officials want to do.</p>
<p>
jazzy~</p>
<p>Not only that, but I’m sure it served as an effective deterrent to others who might think they could get away with rule-breaking conduct and still maintain their football involvement.</p>
<p>This is what worries me <em>SO</em> much about our district. I mean, the superintendent is cowering behind a Kansas statute and a legal RIGHT to do something without interjecting thoughts of what is desirable, advisable, or in keeping with the stated missions of the school district. I can’t imagine that featuring pregnant girls in the yearbook would be thought ANY of those things by most people (and as I’ve said, I’ve had a great deal of feedback on this issue personally). IMHO, it is time for SOMEONE to step UP, take CHARGE, and infuse some common sense and academic emphasis into this district–someone who doesn’t give equal decision-making ability to high school students. </p>
<p>I think that I WILL be able to get some people together to help fight this battle. I am beginning to see this battle as being more symbolic than anything else. After all, the school district should reflect the standards of the community it serves, and this district clearly ISN’T doing that, esp. when you have the KIDS themselves complaining about this inappropriate yearbook material.</p>
<p>I have really appreciated your input, so THANKS, and once again, I really admire how your school district is run, and it gives me heart to think that a large, public school district CAN accomplish this feat.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
sj~</p>
<p>I would definitely have to agree with this sentiment! After all, it’s not like in American society today, this type of clothing isn’t present EVERYWHERE, in public, on television, and in the movies, etc. To me, strict or unreasonable dress codes are merely useless, feel-good measures to cover for the fact that many goings-on in the schools are WAAAAAAAAAAY outside of the control of the administration. To me, it’s VERY frustrating to see schools fuss over these types of things and neglect to deal with the VERY real issues simply because they are so much more difficult to handle.</p>
<p>~b.</p>
<p>I’m sure it’s tougher at public schools, but in a private school you don’t have to fuss very much. You dress inappropriately, you get sent home. You keep doing it, you end up back in public school.</p>
<p>I don’t know if it is just because I am in Seattle- which is hardly the fashion capitol of the world, but neither my older daughter who went to private prep or my younger daughter who goes to inner city public have what I would call a dress code at their school.
Older daughter wore t shirts and jeans- & while one girl was prone to wearing “backless shirts” ( with crisscrossed strings for a back), which I thought looked tacky, but I wasn’t her mother, I didn’t see dress that I thought would be harmful to others or to the school environment.</p>
<p>When her sister was attending an “alternative” public school, I remember boys wearing the kind of long trenchcoats popular with the columbine attackers, and I thought some halloween costumes were a little sketchy ( this was a K-12 school, and the dances were 7th-12th grades), but considering other issues, I felt clothing was not an issue at that school.
The school she attends now, is very big on school spirit weeks- where each class dresses differently.
For example pajama day, was always a big day for spirit week at other schools ( ya know the flannel pants- with tshirts), I asked her , why her school didn’t have pj day. She replied “because every day is pj day at Garfield!”. so I started observing more carefully, and discovered she was right! 
( they do have the boys with the baggy pants- when waiting to pick her up from a dance last year- I about peed my own pants watching the boys come up. One hand on their belt buckle- step-step- hitch up their pants- step-step-hitch up their pants- it was hilarious)</p>
<p>Now I realize some area have much more problems with gangs, and clothing can indeed endanger students and others. I also think that shirts advocating abuse or violence should be banned from the schools.</p>
<p>But I remember when I was attending high school in the 70s
really tacky clothes. I was way too curvy ( on top- I have since had a breast reduction- which I wish I did years ago), for the clothes I liked. I just wanted to dress like my friends, and I really didnt think that a clingy low cut top on me, looked much different than the same thing on friend who was a B cup.
I think kids can have guidance, but I also think that they should wear what they like and are comfortable in, as long as it does not endanger themselves or others.</p>
<p>Now education about clothes- can be discussed in different areas.
Kids need to be taught what kind of message clothes send, and I think a consumer awareness class, could have great discussions about culture and how we form opinions.
But I haven’t seen making teachers into fashion police as very effective , I think educating the students, and getting the parents involved is a more effective way to go.</p>
<p>But I am cloistered here I guess.
I hear about schools like Beruhahs childrens, but I haven’t experienced it, and I am wary of passing judgement, when I don’t know all the issues.
Sounds pretty frustrating though.
There are so many big issues that districts are falling short on, it must be hair pulling when what should be non issues, take focus.
But when school superintendents don’t even try to pretend that they have leadership?</p>
<p>Berurah - specific to the pregnant girls, can I make a really weird suggestion? As a never married mother, I’ve been sort of reading this, and, while seeing - and not disagreeing with - your point of view, and the point of view of nearly every rational person on the thread, I am having trouble coming to terms with some of it. I cannot help but wonder what those pregnant girls are thinking and feeling, especially if they’re reading op ed pieces and aware of the community discourse. I’ve spent 20+ years reading and hearing the term “single mother” and “illegitimate child” used in the same context with criminal behavior, sexual promiscuity, poverty, failure, and any number of other negative connotations, as well as experiencing years of social ostracization on the basis of being the mother a child, and not being married. (It gets more subtle as one becomes more financially and socially successful, but it’s still there - though as I posted once before in the Duke thread, shame on us, if that’s the impression we’ve allowed the rest of the world to form.) </p>
<p>Instead of escalating a battle, have you considered sitting down in an open forum with these pregnant girls and asking for their input about how and/or if they think they should be represented in a yearbook, or in any other media? I realize it’s too late to correct a yearbook already in print, but, perhaps their input would be valuable, and, if so, maybe it would accelerate change if their voice united with yours in some way. I envision a dialog taking place that might cause significant redirection of the superintendent’s point of view, and perhaps these girls - maybe even just one or two of them - can be encouraged to be strong advocates to encourage others NOT to get pregnant while still in high school. </p>
<p>Thinking about it, I’m not entirely sure the girls ever formed the intention to be represented in this manner - I’m sort of wondering if this didn’t start out as something very minor and insignificant, and it outgrew them quickly. I do understand that they willingly posed for the picture - they had to, of course, otherwise how could it be in the yearbook? But my sense is that what has been portrayed, printed, published, let alone the impression it gives others, is not anywhere close to what they actually may have intended. </p>
<p>Maybe I’m wildly off base - maybe these girls are incredibly proud of their status. It’s hard to see how, but I guess it’s possible. But it has to be worth at least an attempt at conversation - after all, they ARE a part of the local community, and there IS new life on the way, regardless of how much we dislike the timing and circumstances of how that new life got started. </p>
<p>As to the tatoos and the rest of it - you got me there.</p>
<p>latetoschool- the girls CHOSE to be in the yearbook like that, gave quotes, etc…</p>
<p>I have NO problem with the fallout, because this is what comes of making decisions…all a girl had to do as say no, no picture, no quote, my pregnancy is a private matter…</p>
<p>I am going to ask a question, and I may not get an answer I expect to hear, but in this school, what is the sex education policy…is it abstience emphasized or comprehensive? either way, not workng to well, eh?</p>