How are women "oppressed" by men?

[Darko21]

<p>

The quality of life between a man and a woman is different, in my opinion, but I understand what you’re saying.</p>

<p>Single women (and married women) may have a harder lifestyle, as well as those that are possibly “not as attractive.” Men usually receive more bonuses, higher income, and generally, more opportunities, which can translate into a tougher time for women (in the workplace, at least).</p>

<p>I also think, like a lot of men, that women should be eligible for the draft.

</p>

<p>The quality is different but equal. All the women who don’t get slightly better jobs in the workplace are offset by all the gorgeous women who have their sugar daddies and stay home all day.</p>

[yawn]

<p>

but i’m going to predict that you want (or at least idealize) women who are conventionally “hot.” guess what–those women (the victoria’s secret models, the playboy bunnies, the porn stars who have been adopted as “positive” role models by mainstream culture) buy into a culture that tells us that in order to be accepted, we need to do certain things, including buying clothes that are flattering (and often expensive), getting our hair done, waxing, having the perfect body, wearing the right makeup, etc. and even if YOU specifically are just so saintly that you don’t value those things, the majority of society does, and ALL women are aware of it.

Well, let’s see:</p>

<ul>
<li>Clothes don’t need to be expensive in order to look good. And they definitely don’t have to be some specific designer brand.</li>
<li>“Long and straight” is all most guys care about. Curling or putting the hair into a special “do” are superfluous.</li>
<li>I’ll give you waxing.</li>
<li>Most girls go way overboard on makeup. Every now and then, I take a look at those makeup videos that get hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube. In EVERY video, the girl looked MUSH prettier (and more genuine) at the beginning of the video.</li>
</ul>

<p>…basically, waxing and limited makeup. Everything else really doesn’t need to be done to a greater extent than would be expected of any guy (hair, clothes, basic hygiene).</p>

[bfb506]

<p>But, you must admit: Some women need more make-up than others.</p>

[leah377]

<p>

Because there is no difference in the quality of lives between men and women. There is a difference in the workplace, however slight, but that doesn’t equate to a harder lifestyle, especially considering many women are married and share income with a significant other.

Please address the following:
-the fact that over 95% of sexual violence is committed by men against women, and most women live in fear of sexual assault or rape (why do you think we don’t walk home alone at night? why do you think we carry pepper spray and rape whistles? etc.)
-the “second shift”: the fact that married women do approximately 66% of housework, regardless of whether they hold full-time jobs in addition
-the fact that there are 22 different forms of birth control for women and only 2 for men (and the “fact” that women “get themselves pregnant”)
-the unfair treatment of rape victims at the hands of police officers who insinuate that if they were drunk or wearing revealing clothing, they were “asking for it”
-the pressure for women to choose work OR family, while men can easily have both because they’re less involved in childcare
-the fact that viagra is covered by health insurance, while birth control frequently is not
-the double bind: women must be at once sexy and innocent; are labeled “sluts” if they have too much sex and “prudes” if they don’t have enough
-strong women are deemed b***hes while strong men are simply good leaders
-it’s FAR more of an insult to call a boy a “sissy” than it is to call a little girl a “tomboy,” because traditionally masculine traits are desired, not despised</p>

<p>i could go on and on if you’d like.</p>

[LogicWarrior]

<p>I haven’t worked in a workplace so I’m not qualified to speak on that, but in class a few weeks ago a female professor took a female student outside to yell at her and tell her to drop the class, and gave another female student a B on an A-quality essay because “she could have done better”. The yelling happen to any of the guys, who almost all got A’s. I didn’t try my hardest on my essay either, but I got an A as well. The worst guy-essay got a B, and it was worse than the one from the girl she yelled at.</p>

<p>As for fashion magazines, I think a feminist called it “giving into the patriarchy” in another thread. Even if a girl realizes that society expects her to put more effort into looking good than guys, she puts that effort in anyway, because she cares about looking good. The solution to this is just for women to start demanding their boyfriends to put more effort into looking good.</p>

<p>“-strong women are deemed b***hes while strong men are simply good leaders”</p>

<p>Remember the Hillary Clinton campaign? She made a good point that there was some sexism in the campaign, and then ran a borderline racist campaign against Obama. And Palin doesn’t apply, I don’t know anyone who would call her a “strong woman”.</p>

[yawn]

<p>

But, you must admit: Some women need more make-up than others.

Yeah. But some guys have bad skin, and could really benefit from light makeup, if only there wasn’t such a stigma against it.</p>

<p>Aka, if you’re a girl with bad skin, no problem, we have just the product. If you’re a guy with bad skin, though luck.</p>

[bfb506]

<p>Leah, I tried earlier, but Darko seems to have an opinion set in stone. Although, I fully agree. I’m just trying to avoid being patronized, once again.</p>

[molly4190]

<p>No one is denying sexism is alive in society, that’s obvious. Both genders face sexism. The question was HOW women are being oppressed in society. I understand I will have to face sexism and sexist attitudes, but so do men.</p>

<p>I feel like day to day, it’s easier being a girl. Women can be tomboys or girly-girls, it’s all cool. We can play with trucks AND dolls, we can play hopskotch AND soccer. But men have to always be tough, they have to be the “money-maker”, they have to be big and tall and strong. As a woman, it’s ok if I act vulnerable or show my emotions or cry once in a while, but men get laughed at and called wusses for those things. And all of that is a result of sexism, or societal expectations for traditional gender roles. It’s ok for women to work or be housewives, but stay at home dads are laughed at. I feel like it’s acceptable for women to break “traditional” roles, but not men. Sexism makes it easier for women in this sense. </p>

<p>Women have the same opportunities as men. We don’t HAVE to get our hoo-hahs waxed, but we can if we want. Men and women take the same classes, more women go to college, we can become doctors, teachers, lawyers, businesswomen, accountants, whatever we want. It’s awesome if a woman is a doctor, but male nurses are sneered at. It’s ok for women to be engineers, but male kindergarten teachers are thought of as child molesters. It’s ok for women to be scientists, but male interior designers are called “gay”. Sooo glad i’m a girl :)</p>

<p>Leah - the problem with rape is biological/physical, I think, and will always be a problem. Men are hornier, and men are physically bigger and stronger. Rape happens in private and is hard to prove. So it really comes to changing men’s attitudes about respect and what’s ok to do. But that’s not easy, and often the couple is drunk or on drugs, etc.</p>

[bfb506]

<p>Clinique face wash is a unisex product, I believe. My step brother used it and it works very well.</p>

[bfb506]

<p>Molly, while I completely agree, the fact remains: it is much harder for a woman to enter the science and math field than for a man to enter it.</p>

[leah377]

<p>

Women are the ones who CREATE this culture. Women are the ones who read fashion magazines and be plastic to attract guys.</p>

<p>What is your point? That women oppress women?

</p>

<p>no, women submit to these cultural expectations because they KNOW those are the ways men will accept them. do you really blame women for the constant imagery pressuring them to look a certain way? if you experienced the same barrage of constant ad campaigns from playing with barbies during childhood to realizing that men have posters of sports illustrated swimsuit models on their dorm room walls & you’d better try to look like them or you won’t be attractive enough, you’d try to fit in, too.</p>

[LogicWarrior]

<p>Molly, what you are calling “sexism against men” is actually called “homophobia”.</p>

[Darko21]

<p>I would address those except they don’t matter.
Women are not forced to do more housework.
Women are not forced to have sex.
Women don’t have to get married to choose anything
It’s God’s fault that women have babies, even though they can choose not to have one.
A weak man is looked down upon way more than a weak woman is.
I didn’t read the last one cause it sounded stupid.</p>

<p>Yea, go on and on about how you think it sucks to be a woman. The fact is the quality of life is equal</p>

[bfb506]

<p>A weak man is looked down upon, because it’s “better” to be manly than to be effeminate, no?</p>

[bfb506]

<p>I don’t think it “sucks” to be a woman. I’d rather be a woman than a man, but I’d rather have the rights of a man than the rights of a woman.</p>

[leah377]

<p>

I feel like day to day, it’s easier being a girl. Women can be tomboys or girly-girls, it’s all cool. We can play with trucks AND dolls, we can play hopskotch AND soccer. But men have to always be tough, they have to be the “money-maker”, they have to be big and tall and strong. As a woman, it’s ok if I act vulnerable or show my emotions or cry once in a while, but men get laughed at and called wusses for those things. And all of that is a result of sexism, or societal expectations for traditional gender roles. It’s ok for women to work or be housewives, but stay at home dads are laughed at. I feel like it’s acceptable for women to break “traditional” roles, but not men. Sexism makes it easier for women in this sense.

</p>

<p>sorry, this is a false parallel. all of these examples just prove masculine normativity in our society–they show that masculine traits are VALUED and RESPECTED in society, while traditionally feminine roles are rejected. men who stay home with their children are stigmatized because society believes they’re not maximizing their potential in doing so. they’re expected to be MORE successful than that. however, women who stay at home are simply fulfilling their traditional roles. these aren’t examples of sexism against men, they’re simply evidence of the ways society still constantly values masculinity.</p>

[molly4190]

<p>

Molly, while I completely agree, the fact remains: it is much harder for a woman to enter the science and math field than for a man to enter it.

No it’s not girl, and don’t tell yourself that! It is NOT harder for us. Don’t make excuses and cry, be strong and smart :)</p>

<p>I want to be a doctor - I took math/science classes in HS, required for everyone. I went to college, open to everyone. I’m majoring in Biology, open to everyone. I’m choosing to apply to Med schools and take the MCAT. The fact is, fewer women choose to be doctors. I don’t think women like my sister become teachers because they secretly want to be doctors but think medicine is for men - no, we’re 21st century teens, we grew up watching House and Grey’s Anatomy and ER - she’s becoming a teacher because she WANTS to. For whatever reason, women seem to like that profession a lot. No one is stopping us from going into Science, we choose not to. Any woman in the USA who is intelligent enough to become a doctor and has the time/money for Med school is free to do so. Don’t cry like a little girl, be a woman and step up and do whatever the hell you want. Little girls make excuses. Real women do things (whether that’s being a mommy or engineer, anything’s ok for us).</p>

<p>Leah - Yeah I agree, society values masculinity and that explains what I described - but don’t you see, this makes it easier for women? We can do whatever the F we want. It’s men that are roped in. I can be a housewife and it’s ok, my brother can’t stay at home. I can be a doctor, but my brother would be laughed at if he was a nurse. LogicWarrior had a good point about homophobia, but it’s sexism too.</p>

[Darko21]

<p>

no, women submit to these cultural expectations because they KNOW those are the ways men will accept them. do you really blame women for the constant imagery pressuring them to look a certain way? if you experienced the same barrage of constant ad campaigns from playing with barbies during childhood to realizing that men have posters of sports illustrated swimsuit models on their dorm room walls & you’d better try to look like them or you won’t be attractive enough, you’d try to fit in, too.

</p>

<p>Oh yea women are just forced to wear makeup and dress nicely. Every time a woman goes on a date I’m sure she’s thinking “Oh God why me why do I have to submit”.</p>

<p>Listen, there are differences between men and women, but none of them make a significant difference in the quality of life for either. That’s that. Any bantering after that and you’re just a feminazi.</p>

[LogicWarrior]

<p>Weak men are looked down on because of homophobia. Boys are afraid of being called “gay” or “■■■■■■” so they do the same to boys who are weaker than them to try to prove their manliness.</p>

[Darko21]

<p>

A weak man is looked down upon, because it’s “better” to be manly than to be effeminate, no

</p>

<p>It’s better to be manly than weak. That’s what I said.</p>