<p>emeraldkity - only you can know if you should go or no - don’t let other people sway you. I have a similar situation and will and have missed imporant events because of it. Yes there are regrets, and sometime there’s not a thing you can do about it.</p>
<p>EK4- Thinking of you. This is complicated and I agree with others that having some personal support could be very helpful. I have a pro-therapy bias also. Here’s why in this case: feedback from a non-family member can be critical to moving forward through the challenges. You can’t control for what others choose to do, but you can become more grounded in your own history and responses to the the current circumstances. </p>
<p>Your description of how the reception is likely to trigger the pain of your own wedding day is something that a good therapist can help with and this will make a difference, whether or not it winds up making sense for you to go to the “party”. With all the adult milestone events that are forthcoming for your daughters, working through them for yourself will be liberating. It can get better. </p>
<p>Why is it that inertia hits when we most need momentum? Agree that the couples counselor might have a good rec for you. You deserve the chance to care for yourself and I wish you all the best. </p>
<p>Given what you wrote above EK (sure wish we had post numbers!) is its extremely important for you to get back into therapy with someone. These are emotionally charged issues, whether you choose to go or not go, and if you are invited to go and do choose to attend, its important to firm up those boundaries and separate what are memories from the past, from your wedding, that may be triggered by, but are separate from, events at present. And as you know, it may take time to get an appointment and feel comfortable with a therapist. So if you have one you have an adequate relationship with, you should reconnect as soon as possible to address these focused issues, since the wedding is not all that far off. Good luck.</p>
<p>EK – that is tough, not knowing whether you can trust yourself to be able to handle the wedding, which certainly is bound to trigger some emotions. My heart hurts for you. Is there someone you could call throughout the weekend of the wedding that could talk you through if emotions start becoming overwhelming? Therapist or someone you trust who is wise about these things? Ahh – just looked back and see something about a phone phobia. We are all unique individuals and have different ways of coping. I hope you can find a way. </p>
<p>I have suspicions that. D already had the wedding.
I emailed her to say her plans for the party sounded nice, but inquired as to when the wedding would be and if her dad and I were invited.
She hasn’t responded to that. I asked H, if he could mention it when he talks to her and he wondered if she had already gotten married, as apparently she has hinted around the topic already.
Im getting pretty exasperated with her.
She is almost 32, she should be able to tell us she already is married, or whatever.</p>
<p>EK, I was just thinking of you when you posted to another thread about something totally unrelated. And then I saw this thread, recently revived.</p>
<p>I avoided therapy for years, just because I was wary of starting all over. Shortly after I adopted my daughter, I wasted a lot of time and money with a therapist who was not a good fit. I would like to think that I would know better now than to continue and hope it was getting better.</p>
<p>That said, I really, really needed to see someone a year ago and the therapist I found was so, so helpful from the very first session. If this person isn’t working for you, perhaps it’s not such a bad idea to look for someone who does work for you.</p>
<p>I know several families whose kids just couldn’t deal with the intimacy of their families during their late teens and twenties. Most of the young adults were adoptees, which I understand is not the case with your daughter. But I know the feeling of not being able to deal with a social situation, hating myself for it, but just not capable. Hopefully your daughter is coming around. If you can give her some time, it would be wonderful if, as she enters this stage of her life, she can return to your life.</p>
<p>I may regret writing this but I am a person who has little to no contact with her mother. My mother is also mentally ill, and growing up with her was a challenge. But it wasn’t until it started to affect my own family that I realized that I had to disconnect. </p>
<p>When I first married and had children, I tried to maintain a relationship even though she had started to treat my kids in ways that paralleled what she had done when I was growing up. For example, she might send a birthday gift to one child but not another because that child was somehow being punished in her mind - or send something one year and if the child did not call to thank her within 24 hours, send an email to me (at first, later, to them when they were older) talking about what a terrible person they were (and how I must have raised them to purposely ignore her by saying terrible things to them about her), and then proceed to ignore that particular child the next year. (Once she decided to send a rather lavish gift to my 12 year old son after not communicating with him for two years. We were away when it arrived and it sat on our doorstep, and one day later I got a very scathing email from her about how rude he was for not thanking her.) I had to spend a lot of time talking to my kids about Grandma being ill and that they should not worry about what she said or did, but one particularly terribly email she sent to my son at age 13 still affects him today; almost ten years later - he has no communication with her. (My other children still email her on her birthday and try to maintain a relationship with her, but in the end it is always about her and that can be difficult for them to handle. Sometimes you just want a grandma that asks you about your life, you know?)</p>
<p>We also had other issues that slowly contributed to alienation. Unfortunately, one of my children became very ill, and instead of being there for us, my mother found reasons not to be. One day, my child’s port-a-cath broke and we had to take an emergency trip to the hospital. I called to ask my mother if she could come over and watch the other kids, and she told me that she had a nail appointment and couldn’t possibly cancel it. I know this seems crazy, but this was very typical. (At one point, same child was in the hospital four blocks from where my mother lives. My child called her asking if she could please come see her in the hospital and my mother told her she didn’t like hospitals.)</p>
<p>I spent many years grieving over the mother I never had, and even more so, the grandmother my kids never had. But in the end, since she can’t be anything other than who she is, it’s not as if I’m waiting for her to change - I just wish I’d had someone different. </p>
<p>Occasionally I still get emails from her, and they are about her and how awful she feels and how bad life is. They never ask about the family. I reply in a perfunctory way. My lovely daughters still send her emails on her birthday, and many times get a response that makes them feel less than adequate. Sometimes my youngest daughter will come into my room and read me the email to joke about it because the response is so inappropriate - but I know that the joking is a way for her to validate with me that it really <strong>isn’t</strong> her that’s evil or bad, that it’s really my mother who has the issue. And in those moments, I do feel thankful that they don’t have more exposure to her.</p>
<p>At any rate, I am not saying, of course, that EK is any of the things that my mother is. I just wanted to offer another perspective of a situation to show that whenever there is an estrangement, it’s not always because of the daughter being wrong - it really depends on the situation. There was another poster in this thread who has been estranged from his father and someone asked him about regrets. I’m really just writing this because while I have regrets that I didn’t have a different kind of mother, I have no regrets that our contact is limited, because my kids could have ended up much more damaged. It took me years to get over some of the things she did - I’m happy to say that I’m about 98% over it all and don’t think of it often - but that 2% just surfaced here!! (Still, when I’m done writing this, I can go back to my family and that will be that - for which I am thankful.)</p>
<p>I appreciate you sharing your story, readytoroll.
That sounds very difficult.</p>
<p>D actually had a pretty idyllic childhood, the best private schools, opportunity and encouragement to pursue her interests, we couldn’t get her a horse, but she had the next best thing. ( a pony, a few blocks away)
However, I went for a period of time when I wasnt able to sleep for extended periods & I was extremely irritable.</p>
<p>(H worked swing shift & at least two, if not three weekends a month- I was in school, but because of his hours, virtually all child/house care was on me. We couldnt afford help & did not get it from our families. Youngest has a sensory processing disorder that made life hard for her when she was little, and so for everyone else as well at times. She has now learned to manage it, but we all have it to some extent, despite the coping skills)</p>
<p>I was so stressed I knew I needed to get away and sleep and the only way I could think of to do that was go into a mental clinic for a few days.
This happened twice, when my oldest was about 11 and then again a couple years later.
After that her younger sister began sleeping better and so I did too.
The fact that I went into the hospital is one of the issues that D has with me.
Im not going to argue with her reality, but it breaks my heart that I missed the signals that she needed more from me.
i just thought I was really lucky that she didnt go through a sarcastic teenager phase!</p>
<p>I had an estranged relationship with my mother, but have a great relationship with my kid who graduated college a few years ago. We speak almost everyday.</p>
<p>I will tell you that when I speak to my mom about my childhood, we have totally different memories of what took place. I am astounded how much she has chosen to forget. I think when a child has issues about his/her upbringing it is not for no reason, even though the parent may not understand it or choose to overlook it .</p>
<p>I agree, im sure she has her reasons, that is why I said I wasnt going to argue with her reality.</p>
<p>But for example, one instance she is still upset about happened about 7 years ago when we were on vacation at xmas. She was very upset about breaking up with her boyfriend. I tried to console her and she misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I went downstairs and told my husband, that I had made her even more upset unintentionally and asked him what I should do. He said just to leave her alone, so I did. She seemed to feel better by being mad at me, rather than upset with her boyfriend, so I let it go.
I never anticipated it would come back to haunt me.</p>
<p>emeraldkity, for many years I had this fantasy that my mom would become self-aware about her behavior during my childhood, and would not only confess but would apologize for some of the pain she caused. It never happened and eventually I got over it. However, I think I could have gotten there faster if my mother was able to own up to some of the things she did without equivocation, excuses or rationalizations. </p>
<p>Perhaps, the event where your daughter was originally mad at her boyfriend and transferred it on to you at that moment was her pulling up anger from her childhood when you weren’t there for her. This somewhat ties into what Goldenpooch stated with hoping that her mom would apologize for some of the pain she caused. I do not have any knowledge of you and your daughter’s relationship at that time, but if she didn’t feel like you apologized for or even recognized your wrongdoings as a parent during that time in her childhood, that would explain the backlash and anger you received from her.</p>
<p>To whether or not she should still be mad after seven years…Eh…I don’t know much about the situation. Childhoods are a bit touchy. Both parties remember things differently.</p>
<p>Another thought that comes up when I read your daughter’s reactions and hesitations with reconnecting with you is that I believe some of it may be out of habit. The mindset of disliking your parent is hard to break when you’ve decided that you’re “better off”. It sounds weird, but it sometimes it’s easier to be upset, ignore, and avoid than facing the painful rifts in a relationship.</p>
<p>However, I think I could have gotten there faster if my mother was able to own up to some of the things she did without equivocation, excuses or rationalizations.</p>
<p>I think that is a concern here as well.
But she seems to want me to apologize for specific incidents without telling me what they are, but if I don’t remember…?
( especially for the years where I wasnt getting more than a couple hrs of sleep at a time, I really dont remember things, and I dont think it would make a difference anyway.
I was made out to be the " crazy one" by my H during the years he was drinking, and while he has long been sober, D went off to college before we really improved our relationship and she never came back)
Its like when you are mad at your teenage boyfriend and when they ask you what is wrong you say
" if you don’t know, I’m not going to tell you!"</p>
<p>I was actually worried about her before the estrangement as she misinterpreted things like thinking my mother & I were estranged when she died ( we werent), and jumping down my throat when I made innocuous comments, like can you set the table?
She even commented to me, that her boyfriend thought she was overreacting.
But just because your brain understands, doesnt mean your gut will react any differently.</p>
<p>You might be interested in this article about why we remember negative things so much more vividly than positive.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/your-money/why-people-remember-negative-events-more-than-positive-ones.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0”>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/your-money/why-people-remember-negative-events-more-than-positive-ones.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0</a></p>
<p>All I can say emeraldkitty is I don’t think a child would be experiencing the type and intensity of anger to sever the relationship with a parent if it was not related to real events.</p>
<p>Im sure they are real to her, but she is the only one who has a problem with me.
At the same time i was apparently behaving like a monster, she was writing me postcards when she was in high school, about how I was her role model.
I have them posted on my fridge, they give me courage that one day she will allow herself to let us back in her life.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity, I want to be helpful and certainly don’t want to cause you any more pain than you’re already feeling, but I sense a certain defensiveness in your posts regarding your daughter’s lack of relationship with you. I feel like you are trying to assign fault with your daughter for her behavior. Because she wrote you nice notes or displayed contradictory behavior is not necessarily proof her experiences are not valid. I think it is natural to feel very ambivalent about a parent even if you’re very angry. It is your parent who, on one level, you have very strong ties to. </p>
<p>I am not saying it is all your fault; however, I am saying that your daughter’s anger has to be very intense for her to not to want to have any relationship with you. Obviously, it takes two to tango but remember a child is in a a very vulnerable position to a parent who has all the power and control during those formative years. What she experienced was from a position of someone who did not have the capability to stop it or change it. That makes it a very compelling emotion for her.</p>
<p>I am only telling you this because I have some empathy for children who are ambivalent about a parent, and maybe I can give you a perspective that may help you reconcile with her.</p>
<p>I agree with Goldenpooch. Also, your daughter may still be at that stage where she is hoping you will be a different person - she has not realized yet that you can’t change the person you are. Things could go either way at this point and you don’t want to push her into total non-contact. I think the best thing you can do (just thinking about what I would have been comfortable with, but not saying it will change anything in the end) is to stop reaching out and just send an email on her birthday wishing her a happy birthday. Don’t even say, “hope to hear from you some day” or anything of that nature. Just find other interests for now. It may be hard but it will help you as well. </p>
<p>GP, why do you assume that EK must be the problem and not the daughter? Just because someone has anger doesn’t mean it has to be valid - maybe D is the one who is profoundly troubled.</p>
<p>Look, obviously I don’t know the situation, but from everything I’ve seen on the boards, EK sounds like a loving mom. She has a good relationship with her younger D, and neither that D or husband thinks their sister/daughter is justified in cutting out mom. Are there situations where removing a toxic parent from your iife is necessary? Sure. Unless EK is totally detached from reality, however, that doesn’t sound like what is going on here at all.</p>
<p>Both my brother and I have an unusually close relationship with our excellent parents. But when I think back to our childhood, I could, if I chose, point to several things my parents did that were probably damaging to us in certain ways. I don’t think that is particularly unusual, since parents are human and, like everyone else, have hang-ups and flaws, some of which are going to affect their children. It would take a heck of a lot, however, for me to think someone was justified in cutting off contact with a well-intentioned, loving parent, which EK pretty clearly is. </p>
<p>Apprenticeprof in a way it doesn’t matter who is at fault. I think that having a perspective on why her daughter’s perception may be what it is can be helpful. It doesn’t really help EK for all of us to tell her she is right, her daughter is a mess, and that’s that. I think it only helps to shed light on what could <em>possibly</em> be contributing and give her tools to manage it. If the advice isn’t on target, then she can of course choose to not follow it. We are all supportive of EK but maybe in different ways. </p>
<p>Well the one thing I can say is my kids aren’t a mess. Yes we can all use some therapy, who couldn’t?</p>
<p>But compared to how we were doing at their age, they are doing amazing.</p>
<p>Oldest was born to young parents, & who didn’t get help from their own families- mostly because our parents were much more involved with our siblings.
She was ten weeks early, and was just as ill as any baby in that circumstance and had the common long term effects those very ill babies share.
I spent 14 hrs a day next to her in the hospital and arranged my work so I could be with her when she came home.
She went on to attend very challenging schools, including one of the most rigorous colleges in the country and finished graduate school as well while one of her parents has not even finished high school and the other barely had.
( I tried to find her additional support, since we didnt have it from family by using my inheiritance to send her to the very best local schools and programs, the same ones where the Gates & Bezos families sent their kids, but very nurturing- not competitive. But that may have been part of the problem, as the lives of the "rich and famous"were very different from the lifestyle we were able to provide at home)</p>
<p>She has a very good job, doing exactly what she hoped she would be doing.
She recently married into a family that is
*way * above us on the educational & career ladder and she is looking forward to her new life.
But even her dad & I sought premarital counseling, and she has resisted any kind of therapy. First, she couldn’t afford it & we offered to pay, and now it’s because she is too busy.</p>
<p>I can’t argue with her experience because it is hers. But it is so confusing to me & my husband that no one had any inkling she felt this way. She was always a very happy and involved child & teen. People were constantly coming up to me telling me I must be a fantastic mom because my child was so fabulous. I am not exaggerating.</p>
<p>Her distress seems to have come from her last yr & 1/2 of high school. A time when her father who was using drugs ( he went from being addicted to alcohol, to using pot) made the choice to move out, rather than quit using them.
But she still has a relationship with him, even though I was the one who stayed to take care of her & her sister.</p>