How can I do this?

Parent Cafe
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<p>EK, I think I might write this to my daughter: that I know she has grievances about me and that although I don’t understand exactly what they are, I am so sorry that I wasn’t always able to give her what she needed during her childhood. I hope there comes a time when she is willing to try again with me, and whenever that is, I will be ready and thrilled to reestablish our relationship.</p>

<p>As to why she came to this conclusion after the fact, I know I have discovered new insights (mostly through therapy) that lead me to reevaluate things that happened when I was young and have new insights on relationships with family members. Of course there’s no way to rewind and figure out what “actually happened,” since it’s different for everyone involved. I know that I have not been a perfect mother and I know that no one is. But I like to think that I would be willing to give a blanket, nonspecific acknowledgment/apology to my daughter if it were necessary to maintain or reestablish our relationship.</p>

<p>Of course I am sure my daughter will see at least some of the errors of her evaluation of me as a parent if and when she is a parent. But I may not live long enough to see that.</p>

<p>In my very humble opinion, being the parent of one child who will turn 18 next week.</p>

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<p>I should reiterate, that I have tried to apologize repeatedly, Ive asked her what sort of amends that would feel meaningful to her, Ive offered to come to her state & participate in therapy with her & offered to pay for it.</p>

<p>I started therapy myself & included her dad so real issues could be addressed rather than just what I chose to share with the counselor.</p>

<p>By cutting me off, she has cut off her dad except by phone, and removed the opportunity of family events from her sister.</p>

<p>I just cant emphasize enough how confused and concerned I am.
Her younger sister had a very hard time in childhood because of her differences, and it would make sense to me if she needed more space, but now she is one of the most grounded, & loving people I know.</p>

<p>She also has a good relationship with her sister, considering they are 8 yrs apart, which I am very happy about. </p>

<p>H & I are trying to give her all the space she needs, but it is heartbreaking to watch.</p>

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<p>Emeraldkitty – I don’t think that there is any amount of analytic reasoning that is going to explain the WHY behind your relationship with your daughter – and in most ways, it doesn’t matter. You (your husband, your therapist, her sister,…) aren’t going to convince either of you that you’re wrong. It is an unproductive path, like picking at a sore hoping it will get better with more picking. Life isn’t fair. That is a deep truth, and all your weighing and balancing the hurts and problems of you and your D vs. your husband and your D aren’t going to get you anywhere.</p>

<p>There is nothing you can do to change your daughter. Not one thing. And there is no productivity in trying to get the others in your life (D2, husband, therapist) to intervene on your behalf.</p>

<p>D may be married. She may not be married. She may invite you to the wedding. She may not. It hurts, it sucks, but it is what it is. </p>

<p>I know you’re in Washington, but have you ever had a sunburn? Do you remember how exquisitely sensitive your skin felt even with the lightest touch? Maybe that’s your daughter’s reality. It is not about fairness.</p>

<p>Your daughter clearly wants to the be the one in control of any contact. Let her. If she calls or emails or texts, respond briefly, but don’t ask questions and please don’t ask anything about when you’re allowed to call/email/text her in the future. That is way, way too much pressure on a sunburn. It hurts, it sucks, but it is the truth.</p>

<p>You’ve got your mental health issues, and your daughter likely has her own. Everyone copes in their own way. </p>

<p>I had some dysfunctional parents, and a sibling who was mentally ill. Her perceptions of our family were very different than the perceptions of all of the other siblings, and yet they were her truth. She didn’t answer phone calls or emails, but would randomly call us (sometimes at 3 a.m.) when she wanted contact. She got very touchy when anyone tried to get too close…unless that person was the one person she generally favored at the moment, until she’d lash out at that person. (I have a lot of siblings. It was a round-robin.) She was ill. It was not her, it was the disease. It didn’t make it feel better at the time, but it did help to over time, gain some acceptance that this was not within our control. We each had to set limits on our interactions with her, and develop some emotional distance and detachment. It wasn’t easy, and we were far from perfect at it. But it was what we needed to do to cope. </p>

<p>Hugs. Very tough stuff. I’m sorry. </p>

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<p>I don’t like the assumption that it’s always the parent’s fault. My sister has absolutely no contact with her biological mother (we’re half sisters). Her mother ruined my sister’s credit by taking out a bunch of credit cards in her name and defaulting (sister had no idea). She charged my sister with kidnapping when her half-brother moved into her house to escape their mom. The list goes on. </p>

<p>This is not to say EK or the D is doing anything wrong, but I think it’s wrong to assume that it’s always the parent’s fault (or always the kid’s fault).</p>

<p>I don’t think you should make offers to go to therapy or anything of the sort. If your D doesn’t feel like she has issues then therapy is probably an insult to her (in her mind). </p>

<p>arabrab gives great advice above. </p>

<p>Hang in there. <em>hugs</em></p>

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<p>Thanks for those thoughts.
That is what I am realizing, but I am not great at dealing with hot/cold behavior… Its soo confusing and sad because not being able to forgive me for being fallible hurts herself even more than it hurts me.
I have to trust that she has a support system and that she will be OK, but it is just so sad and scary.</p>

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<p>EK, something jumped out at me this morning as I read the most recent group of posts on this thread. Well, 2 things. One is that you mention upthread that your D had an “idyllic” childhood. I speak only as a lay person, but idyllic and mother spending two stints in a mental hospital during kid’s teen years are rarely in the same sentence. YOU know that it was best for you, but maybe your older D has/had no idea what was going on and it fundamentally changed her in some way. You also mention that your H was an alcoholic and drug user-for years-and again, that does not usually fit into the same sentence as idyllic. So there ARE some realities, I think, that you’re not seeing, that your D does, and clearly. </p>

<p>You also say that in 10 years, so since she finished her undergrad, she has controlled her communication with you. That means that as soon as she was able to be self-supporting, she switched things up on you and controlled the access to what apparently to her, is a damaged relationship with you.</p>

<p>I see this very clearly from a disinterested bystander position. The church I work for is working with a young man who chooses to wander the streets on days when we are closed rather than visit his family (he is in a youth shelter) because to HIM, his family is toxic. Yet to us, they are kind, wonderful people. That is HIS reality. Your D did have some pretty jarring experiences as a child-your hospitalizations, your H’s addictions and abandonment, and what you’ve mentioned many times as your total immersion in your kids’ lives as your sole purpose. For her, obviously, this was NOT idyllic, and it affected her so much that she can’t or won’t be the kind of grateful, close daughter you want her to be.</p>

<p>It doesn’t MATTER that she’s close to your H even though HE was the addict-he’s never been supportive of you-who knows what he told her about any of this? It doesn’t MATTER that you send her to Bill Gates’ school-there were things she wanted from you that in her mind, she didn’t get. But as others have said, you cannot force her to confront these things, but I urge you to get back into therapy because it can only help you will all of these issues. Maybe your older D will come around, but you need to prepare yourself in case she doesn’t. </p>

<p>One last thing, it’s not uncommon for kids, especially bright ones, to turn to academic and professional success when they’re faced with addicted parents. Academics are something they can control, so they get laser-focused on them. That doesn’t mean they are untroubled or faced with mental health issues of their own. In fact. they very likely DO have issues relating to the addiction and any other family problems they grew up with. I wish you luck and strength as you navigate this.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your post, I agree that even though compared to our own childhoods hers was idyllic, her experience must have been tumultuous and possibly the reason why it seemed she was so capable was because she was pushing her emotions down into a place where they couldn’t get out.</p>

<p>I do think its time for her to be self supporting though, asking us for money and paying for her smart phone must add to her conflicted behavior.</p>

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<p>arabrab’s post, above, makes some good points. Your daughter may be going through some things she does not want to share with her family, who knows? If her own mental health is fragile, she may be doing the best she can to cope. Just as you are doing the best you can. Asking her what you can do to make things better – it was a worth a try. But if she is not ready to make things better, or doesn’t want a connection right now, for whatever reason (and why not give her the benefit of the doubt, and just frame it as she is working through her own issues, ) then there is not a lot you can do, except be very patient. And detach, but don’t give up. Hold her in your heart. See your own therapist and find a way to cope, lovingly, and without putting pressure on someone else to change – and to prepare for the day when she will want to connect more, so you can do it in a more positive way when it happens. And so you can start anew, moving on from the past hurts. If your current therapist is not very insightful or helpful, move on to another one. Some therapists are not very good, you know. But there are some gems out there. Keep looking. And seriously, don’t feel guilty about going to the hospital when she was younger. You were doing what you needed to do. She may not understand this right now, but maybe some day she will. </p>

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<p>Some posters commented on kids bringing up things from the past. One of my daughters – when she gets mad at me – brings up the time I didn’t give her a brownie when she was three years old. I guess there are some things you just never get over . . . </p>

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<p>My sister is still resentful that my mother gave away her dresses she had as a toddler.
Which is why I have hung on to virtually every toy, book, doll, camp tshirt and piece of art & paper from their childhoods in case one day they want it!</p>

<p>I recognize I have to stay in the penalty box for as long as she decides, even though she has also placed other members of her family in there with me.</p>

<p>What I *can *do, is continue to work on myself and to continue my work in the community alongside my family and friends.
I agree that finding a more effective therapist is critical, as I need to work on forgiving her so I can move forward.</p>

<p>We all have limited time & life is too short to spend it looking backward.</p>

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<p>"What I can do, is continue to work on myself and to continue my work in the community alongside my family and friends.
I agree that finding a more effective therapist is critical, as I need to work on forgiving her so I can move forward.</p>

<p>We all have limited time & life is too short to spend it looking backward."</p>

<p>==> this is exactly it. I really wish you the very best as you move forward on this journey.</p>

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<p>I have no useful advice, this is a question more than anything else. I haven’t read though the whole topic, but I probably will after work purely just out of interest. </p>

<p>This is probably something I just won’t understand very well until I’m a parent, but why do you care so much? It sounds like she’s doing fine, she’s not relying on you for anything, why not call it quits, let her go on her way and go on yours? Presumably as an aspie you don’t rely on these interpersonal relationships as much as members of the general public do, right? A postcard every 2 weeks seems very excessive for someone who doesn’t want to have contact with you, my parents (who I’m on good terms with) don’t contact me that often. Unless you’re seeing yourself dying in the next couple of years and you want to see her one last time, I don’t see the reasoning for constant contact here. </p>

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<p>EDIT: This was an unfinished, saved draft which was accidentally posted. </p>

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<p>OMG…I have no words…except to say that you are right, this is something you apparently don’t understand, but once you become a parent, it takes zero effort to empathize with someone who is going through the agony of having her child reject her.</p>

<p>“Why do you care so much?” Unbelievable. </p>

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<p>So you don’t have to read through the whole thing, Vladenschutte, I stopped contacting her long ago.</p>

<p>She called me a couple months ago to tell me she was getting married and she wanted my help to plan a very limited part of her celebration.
I thought that meant her thinking had changed. But not really.</p>

<p>I spent decades life caring for both my daughters, including expressing my milk daily for four months until she was big enough to nurse, changing my life so her needs came first, to the best of my ability, even to what I would have preferred as a family & as an individual.</p>

<p>But even if I had gone back to work when she was six weeks old ( although she wouldn’t have been out of the hospital), as many women choose/ are forced to do- she is my daughter.</p>

<p>I would give up an appendage to have the relationship we once had & I would give up my life without thinking twice for either of my children.</p>

<p>You also don’t have to give birth to have that sort of bond with a child. Once you let them into your heart, they are part of you permanently.</p>

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<p>EK, I think you may be making a mistake to assume that your daughter’s reasons for avoiding have anything to do with the reasons that she has given to you and her father.</p>

<p>[NOTE – but see my post below for an entirely different possibility].</p>

<p>When a person avoids contact with someone else, like a family member, it is often due to issues that the person has such as feelings of shame or guilt. </p>

<p>For example, I figured out a long time ago that if I wanted to “get rid” of certain extended family members who only seemed to call when they needed money – the best course of action was to “lend” them money. A small amount of money so that I could live with it, large enough so that the borrower would not forget that I was owed the money. It works pretty well: relatives who owe me money do their best to avoid any contact with me.</p>

<p>The internal feelings may or may not be grounded in reality. You say that you suspect that you suffer from BPD, although never actually diagnosed – surely you must have read plenty of articles about BPD and BPD-behaviors. Is it possible that your daughter has this shared characteristic? Perhaps she feels ashamed when she is around you because her unrealistic expectations of herself, and then she projects her feelings onto your. See: <a href=“http://gettinbetter.com/perfect.html”>http://gettinbetter.com/perfect.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>My personal experience with people with BPD or similar personality issues is that the more that a person does to be nice to them or to help them, the angrier they get, and the more likely they are to be mean to the person being nice. It works something like this: the person feels that she has wronged you in some way, and feels bad about herself… Every time you are nice to that person, your “good” behavior simply reminds the person how badly she feels about herself, and makes her feel worse. Because the avoiding person cannot cope with the bad self-feelings, the person becomes angry at the nice person for making her feel bad – and may even project an intent on that person. (example: “Mom hates me, but is pretending to be nice to me because she wants to make me feel guilty.”) </p>

<p>You can’t reason with such people because they are not acting reasonably.</p>

<p>You can’t use logic or try to puzzle out a reality-based justification for their behavior because they are not acting logically and their own perceptions are not based in reality. </p>

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<p>EK, I have a question, coming from an entirely different perspective than my post above.</p>

<p>When did your daughter first become involved with her husband/fiance? Did her actions cutting you off occur sometime after she became involved with him (or could it be, if you aren’t sure when they met?)</p>

<p>I’m asking because one strong characteristic and red flag of an abusive relationship is that the husband/boyfriend does everything he can to cut the wife/girlfriend off from her friends and family. </p>

<p>All of your agonizing is based on the assumption that the decision to cut you off originates with your daughter. But maybe this is a situation where your daughter is conforming to someone else’s influence. </p>

<p>That would explain the inconsistencies about the wedding – maybe your daughter was mistakenly thinking that her husband would surely allow him to invite mom to the wedding – but then husband blew his stack. </p>

<p>If she was in such a relationship she might do everything possible to conceal it. </p>

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<p>D met her H online, about 6 years ago as far as I know. Youngest knew about him, long before we did. They have been living together for 4 years. We havent gotten to know him that well, but we have spent several holidays with them over the years & he seems very sweet and protective, and I would be surprised if he was encouraging her behavior, but then again I dont know him well.</p>

<p>However, considering that he has been ok with her sister coming for visits over the years, including hosting her sisters friends as well, I really dont think he has been the catalyst.</p>

<p>It makes more sense that she has the intensity of emotion that goes along with Bpd, especially as I see common behaviors with my late mother & myself.</p>

<p>We became estranged, a bit more than a year ago after we had spent Christmas with them, when I was asking her to tell me why she seemed so tense & upset around me & after giving me the few examples Ive already shared, she requested me not to contact her any more. </p>

<p>I need to quit trying to pick apart( in my head) the examples she gave me for her lack of contact, because they could just have been convenient. Its likely something more amorphous, like she did not feel loved.
I am horrible about giving verbal affirmations, and even though I thought I showed how I felt through my actions, I failed at giving wise mother speeches, and I likely missed many opportunities to become closer with her.</p>

<p>Now that I have aged considerably, I am much more self aware than I was, and more relaxed, but she doesnt know that me at all.
( her sister does, and her sister has encouraged her to get to know me as an adult, but that is far down the road)</p>

<p>I havent met her Hs family, but they sound very close & have really welcomed her, which is wonderful.
She apparently is getting all the family support she needs from them, even though they live on the other side of the country, they see them a couple times a year.</p>

<p>Even before the estrangement, we didnt get to see her that much.</p>

<p>Our families big vacation time has been at Christmas, because of Hs work schedule, but for several years after she graduated college, she committed to house/dog sitting during that time, so that if we wanted to see her, we had to go there even before she was living with her BF.</p>

<p>That was awkward, because we had a tradition of going away to the mountains to a family inn together and it was wonderful. Or at least I thought so.
Big difference staying in a hotel in the city, where there wasnt much to do & she was too busy anyway.</p>

<p>She even committed to dog sitting a month after my mother died, and our 15 yr old lab was too old & ill to travel or be boarded, so I spent Christmas alone with the dog while H went down to see the girls ( her younger sister had taken the train down a few days before) He just stayed a few days, & brought back the youngest, but he took my car!
That really hurt. </p>

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<p>I’m going to offer an observation, for which there may be multiple reasons. EK you seem to have very detailed memories about events that have occurred. There seem to be still significant emotions attached to this laundry list. Maybe this is because you are trying to understand.</p>

<p>As I have stated before I have a dad with bipolar disorder. Our relationship has, to say the least, had its ups and downs. But I can see no benefit at all in continiously hashing over stuff that is gone and done. It keeps those emotions and hurts fresh and live, in my view. </p>

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<p>Again, I can’t help but notice that your D pulled away a LONG time ago-this recent estrangement just takes it to a whole other level. She deliberately made plans to not be home for the holidays and if you wanted to see her at all, you had to go there. This isn’t the way people who have fond memories of growing up behave. And you offer yet another example of your H not supporting you when he left you without transportation to go see D after your mother died! It seems that he too, has a long history of non-support, given what you’ve shared here.</p>

<p>I don’t know much about mental health and I don’t want to armchair diagnose your D, but it seems like there’s something going on that is real to her about her formative years that had such a negative impact that she has done her very best to distance herself from you. And I know only what you’ve said here, but I don’t believe I could live with an H who has treated you the way yours has for decades. I’m not sure I see an upside. I hope you get into counseling again and find a way to get some peace in your life.</p>