<p>EK, I don’t recall if I’ve said this before, but I do think your husband is part of the problem. And I think you need to call him on it whenever he does something inappropriate and deal with it so he doesn’t do it anymore. Once you do, it will change lots of dynamics in the family.</p>
<p>For example, when he mutters, “I’ll try,” follow up and ask How, When, Where. Follow up again a day later and ask If he did, How it went, etc. This is important.</p>
<p>I know hes oart of the problem, but pushing him will backfire, cause he will be even less likely to intervene.
I thought that by seeing a counselor together, the counselor would see it my way and encourage him to speak out, but in actuality, the counselor agreed with him that he shouldn’t use his goodwill with D to try and remedy what H seems to see as " my" problem.</p>
<p>Haven’t found an alternative therapist yet, but Im looking!</p>
<p>I know you’ve had a lot of advice to step back on not contact your D, but I wonder if knowing you will be in her location for the holidays would be a good reason to reach out-as long as you expect nothing in return? Just a simple text/email saying, “We will be 1/2 mile from you on X day, and was wondering if you’d be willing to meet at a neutral place (coffee shop, bakery, etc.)?”</p>
<p>Sometimes neutral places are good for keeping drama at bay, they are certainly less emotionally charged, and there are relative time limits. Such a meeting was how my ex and I began speaking again. Your D may ignore you, or may not agree to visit with you, but you take the ball out of your H’s hands and at least you will know you tried. Make sure that those who your D DOES talk to assure her you didn’t pick the location to find a sneaky way to see her, but that since you ARE there, you would like to see her. Then step back again.</p>
<p>I’ve mentioned about my older D and her father were not speaking. Although it took a crisis for my D to reach out again, they ARE now on better terms and D is even talking about flying out to visit. Things are a long way from “good” but they’re getting there. I hope you and your D start speaking again.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, H stopped drinking quite a while ago( about 17 yrs) & the abuse was tied to that( he also went through treatment for both) , although we both have an unhealthy dynamic that we vary rarely slip back into. ( not abusive, but obviously I don’t get as much emotional support as I need sometimes)</p>
<p>Oldest has always been closer to her dad for a while. I was really busy with her sister who is 8 years younger & had challenges although I was mostly in school/ stay at home while they were growing up. But with dad on swing shift & working most weekends for the bulk of that, I was the bad cop & he was the one that was " no pressure" and the one they longed to see.
Jeez, I sound soo pathetic.
At least my dog considers me #1!
;)</p>
<p>Dogs are the best. Humans are so . . . complicated . . . And memories are so – unreliable. Really, they change over time. Diaries are good for pointing this out. I really wish I could keep a journal. A few times I have started one (usually petered out rather quickly), but even those few entries are really enlightening. I think I remember something, and then to go back and read about some things that I wrote when things were happening or had just happened. It really is amazing, disturbing, and occasionally, gratifying (that I do remember some things accurately!). Numb is not a great feeling to have, but detaching to some degree can be healthy. Does that make any sense? I’m still hoping that somehow she’ll come around and try to re-establish some relationship with you. Maybe not the old relationship, but something. Is that okay, if you establish a new relationship that maybe doesn’t have the closeness you would like? Hang in there.</p>
<p>Writing a journal is be a good idea.
Ive actually been through a lot this year, with the estrangement from D and my knee replacement. I need to get perspective.</p>
<p>So older D is going to be attending Thanksgiving at a friends in her city according to H.
H & I wont be going back till Saturday, but younger D’s bf needs to be back for job training, so they are leaving on Friday. ( but they volunteered to take the dog with them- as we need dog sitting for Friday night when we will see PEARL JAM!)
Im assuming that younger D will be seeing her sister at some point at her house, but it is unlikely for us all to get together.
I wanted to ask younger D what she thinks about her dad clarifying the incident where my words were misunderstood by older D, but she has been so critical of me lately, I am afraid to.
It probably wouldn’t make any difference anyway.</p>
<p>Now younger D has been talking about Christmas. Even though I just purchased equipment that she will need for a school related trip in the spring- which I was going to give her for xmas, she still earmarked several catalogs while she was just here.
But what do I do about older D and Christmas?
Do I dare send a card or any presents?
I have Christmas cards, so I can give one to H to send ( Im the one who handles all that stuff, he barely even does shopping for himself), but should we just send a check or gift card? If I completely stay out of it, I expect he wouldn’t even remember to send a card, but she has made it so clear that she does not want me to contact her in any way.
Im supposed to let her sister bring my dog over for a visit though.
They better give him back.</p>
<p>Buy her presents. Absolutely. Send them and expect nothing in return. With any grace, she will come to her senses sooner rather than later.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t buy her any presents.</p>
<p>It just has the potential for one more thing for her to be dissatisfied with.</p>
<p>Id happily send her presents, even though it really isn’t a tradition in our families for the adults to receive anything but joke or purely functional presents ( H receives socks & underwear from his parents every few years, older D usually gives me soap- but younger D is more personal)
But giving presents seems fraught with pitfalls!
I guess I wont start shopping online, but wait to see if Thanksgiving changes anything.</p>
<p>Just an idea … If you really want to so something for your older D for Xmas, what about sending a small donation in her honor to a charity she cares about? The charity then sends her a holiday card that says " a donation in your honor was made by emerald kitty " but does not divulge the amount.</p>
<p>Sending you a great big hug…</p>
<p>I would not send her anything, no card or present. It will just annoy her. Very sorry that your H and younger D are not encouraging your D to make up.</p>
<p>justforthis is right. Don’t send anything-especially since cards and gifts are not a tradition in your family. It would seem manipulative if you do.</p>
<p>Also, I would absolutely NOT have your younger D talk to the older one about clarifying ANYTHING. DO NOT set this in motion or you risk BOTH D’s shutting you off. It is not your younger D’s place to try to ferret out information or make peace, plus you say now SHE is getting testy with you. You’d be playing with fire to set one talking to the other in your behalf.</p>
<p>I do think that your <em>HUSBAND</em> should be taking a more proactive approach to your older D for you, but it’s clear that’s not going to happen for several reasons. But other than you, as her PARENT, he is the only one who has the “right” to do so.</p>
<p>Ditto what sseamom said.</p>
<p>No I didn’t want younger D to talk to her sister, what I was thinking of doing was only * asking * younger D about what she thought of * their dad* saying something, because he is the one that remembers the incident. ( better than me)</p>
<p>Also regarding the gifts- I have always gotten our kids & their sig others gifts for holidays & birthdays.
And before the estrangement, sent care packages as well.
But for instance my mother only gave me a small check for birthday/Xmas after I turned 21 & often my Hs parents don’t even send cards.
That is what I meant about family traditions.
Since until recently older D was in grad school, I took as much time with her gifts as her sister who is technically still living at home.</p>
<p>Don’t know if that changes anyone’s advice but wanted to clarify.</p>
<p>I suggest that you completely stop thinking about the incident. Incidents are just the tipping point. Focusing on it is a smoke screen for whatever built up to that point as well as what keeps the disconnect going. Try to not think about the incident as any cause and also as any fix “if clarified” in the future. If your D is focused on it then she is just not being honest about the big picture and saying what she needs to say. And also stop thinking your H should step up. That is just history. And while this may cause issues between the two of you, his talking now is just too little too late when it comes to your D.
That said, if I were in your shoes (and have not had the same issues but some pain with a kid) I would do at least part of whatever I wanted to do as a Mom. If I wanted to send a check for $100 (actually I would send the bill so she would not have to decided whether to cash it) I would with a "hoping you are happy’ “love you” Mom and Dad. Yes, I would add his name as otherwise it is not loving.
I do know I would not have H or younger D do anything in my name.
I know you are in pain, and I am sorry.</p>
<p>I don’t think you should ask your younger D ANYTHING regarding your older D and their father. It’s just not a good idea to be asking one kid advice about the other, especially in this situation. I would keep trying to get your husband on board in trying to talk to the older D, but NOT to try to convince her that her memory of what happened is wrong. It’s her truth as far as she is concerned and any attempt to convince her otherwise is going to end badly.</p>
<p>As for the gifts, I DID misunderstand, I thought gifts were not a big deal in your home. I still don’t think I’d do it-she might think you’re trying to push her into communication. Again, this is where your H comes in. He might, as part of what I would think is essential in this situation, ask if she’d accept “the usual” for the holidays, whatever that is, from you. But if he doesn’t do that, I wouldn’t send anything unasked for.</p>
<p>Thanks for listening to me.
I get by ok most of the time, but the holidays naturally are harder as that was typically when we saw her.
I’ve all but given up expecting H to try and intervene, even though I feel that since he has not, it is basically the same as agreeing with her stance.(& he agrees with me about that, but at the same time we know he still won’t bring anything up that might make her uncomfortable)</p>
<p>The incident was me being misunderstood & H remembers at the time my being upset about it, but you’re right that if she wanted to believe I would think that then, it probably isn’t going to make a difference now for H to say I was misunderstood.</p>
<p>I am not yet able to go back to work, so I spend more time than I should wondering what happened.
My IRL friends who know the Ds, can’t fathom it either, and are mystified at it not being resolved by now.</p>
<p>I think Oregon1 made some very good points. </p>
<p>I would send a card but not money or a gift. I agree with others that think that a gift seems manipulative (not that it is intended that way but how she will perceive it).</p>
<p>Just sending you a big hug.</p>
<p>I hope everyone is having a great Thanksgiving.
H & I and the pup, came down to Portland last night, my youngest & her BF, came down this morning.
She & bf took the pup to a dog park where she met up with her sister while I was making dinner. Im glad she got to see her.
Ive hinted to both my H & my younger D, that I am open to a call from the oldest if shes interested.
Its all I can do. Im doing ok, for now.</p>