<p>Oh, there is nothing worse than screaming before school starts…is there? To be avoided at all costs, it just feels so wrong.</p>
<p>When I got married my mother gave me a prescription for a happy marriage which was “never go to bed angry.”</p>
<p>I suppose the ultimate prescription for parenting could be “never send them to school screaming!”</p>
<p>No punch line in life sometimes. You do the best as you go along, and sometimes letting them take the consequences can just suck them into a downward spiral. Having watched young boys of that age for 15 years now when my nephew was that age and being able to track these kids, I have to reluctantly conclude that a tough answer often times just put the kid even furhter behind the 8 ball. Many times with these boys, maturity is the key, and a whole new environment can work wonders. The problem is that the new environment is greatly dependent on the record the kid pulls in his current situation. And just statistically making it through Yale, if you get in, is much higher than getting through cc. Sometimes you suck it down as a parent, and hope for the best, and yes, sometimes support, support, support his the cheapest and easiest way to go, allowing the kid to slowly pick it up and catch up, as opposed to getting further and further behind. I’ve yet to meet a psychologist or anyone who can figure out why these boys have such a lack of interest in school or in anything. I have some right here that have had professional help up the whazoo and there are no such answers. We struggle along and yes, support, support, support. The right school which is expensive rather than the public school. I see their peers in those special ed programs are even further behind 4 years later, whereas my kids have intergrated into their tiny parochial school. The oldest of those 3 will probably go to a prep school. Doubt seriously that would have been the option had I put him where he should have gone according to the professionals, and the program is considered excellent among such programs. But no one there has gone on to a good private school to anyone’s memory. I truly believe that every one of my boys would have preferred to stay home and do work rather than go to school, and there would not have been a snowball’s chance in hell that they made up the work they missed. Each and every one of them had/have problems doing the work assigned while they are there. I am on my senior’s case right now as he missed a few days for wrestling finals. Has to make up the work, he’d rather take his chances, and he has his admissions to Yale on the line! Should I let him just take the consequences and go to the state u which is a back up we are keeping in our pocket as it is nearby and he is accepted there as well? I don’t think so. Will he sloth his way out of Yale? Maybe. But his the other two older ones were as bad, and they went to tougher colleges with reps for being more cuttrhoat, and they did manage to toe the line and make it through, one specatacularly, the other barely, and resentfully, but, hey, he is gainfully employed out of college. I don’t think these kids need to have their basement lowered, so to speak, at vulnerable times. Yes, I have heard tough love success stories, but the ones I know are over a long period of time, and not the path I would want to live because those years are painful ones. Clearly, if I pack one off to college, and he does not change and flunks, out, and the numbers will bear out that there are such kids, that is a path to take. But being a bit lazy, I prefere to try to quicker route, but bearing with the kids’ issues and pushing him along the way and out the door. </p>
<p>Neither my nephew nor that boy I mentioned can give any insights on why they went through such a difficult period of time where they were so uninterested in anything. My nephew says that had he gotten a taste of the seedy, easy life then, he would have never gone back to school. I was terribly tempted to throw him out as he burned his way through a number of local schools. I did not because the ones who were thrown out, I saw every day in Oakland which is where I lived, in the student ghetto, and in the time I lived there, not one pulled himself back on his feet the way his potential indicated. I saw them when I visited a year ago, still working in the shops, still living hand to mouth, and some of them are over 30 years old as they are my nephews peers, and were actually better students than he was. A this point, they are on their own, and it is going to take a lot to get back to college, find a career. That possibility has to be weighed when you let them sink. I have seen kids not bother to apply to colleges, the parents say, let him sink, and so they do. For 2,3- 15 years, some of them. There is clearly not one answer, but I do want to point out the possible pitfalls of lowering that limbo bar. The chant “how low can you go”, has some amazingly low answers with kids. And I am not ignoring the distinct possiblities that they end up there anyways after you sink the time, money , effort into them because that is where they want to go.</p>
<p>Good morning for me to read this. This weekend was full of the same old same old. Thanks, folks.</p>
<p>The exact same script is played out in our house, I mean WORD for WORD! :
</p>
<p>I don’t think “helicopter” is the right term. More like, “bulldozer”, or “towtruck” :(</p>
<p>Ok, here is a little story to lighten this up. Stop me if you have heard this one… no, better not. I think my GRANDMOTHER told me this one… if not, it was my mother when I was young. Suffice it to say, this is a very very old story. </p>
<p>There once was a young couple that had a precious son. They took care of his every need and he was perfect in every way except for one thing - he did not speak! One evening when the perfect little boy was seven years old, as he sat at the dinner table with his fawning parents, the little boy said, “My soup is cold!” His parents gasped!!! (GASP!) and cried with joy! They asked him, “Why did you not speak until now???” He replied, “Up until now everything was OK!” :)</p>
<p>I"m sorry, all for bringing in any gloom and glum. Our household has not been all screams and naggings and threats, though I may give that impression. My boys for all their issues are probably the most fun loving engaging group you can ever meet. My middle guy who is not giving me trouble about schoolwork needs to get a dose of whatever they got. The 4 of them and I went to dinner this summer, and believe me, a more lively table there was not. The two musical ones took a turn at the microphone at the piano bar, laughter, joy, and several people came over to ask me how I got such a wonderful, handsome, personable set of boys. That was a great evening.</p>
<p>But right now S2 has a D on a midterm report, and senioritus has taken over, and he wants to while away the school year with a song and a dance. So there have been the grim times as well. Not as grim as the real emergencies of life. There is much worse out there than the apathetic couch potato that needs the shot of adrenaline, or the kick in the rear. And I certainly do not have the answer. I have been seeking it for years, and can tell you that every piece of advice you get needs to be weighed carefully agains the current situation, the players and the possible consequences. I may be traveling in the wrong circles, but I have just not seen much good come out of the “let water sink to its level”, or tough love approach, though it may be something that comes in time, lots of time. The “let it go” does not work either, as these kids do take advantage of every little opening you give them. . Again, this is my experience. The nagging, micromanagement, manipulating, and pushing, often gets them at least from point A to B which is at least a little further up the food chain. There is also the selfish element in this strategy, in that I want them OUT after highschool. The two years I followed professionals’ advice on my nephew and let him flounder were sheer hell, and when I finally send, stop, and sent him off to college, he managed to work it out in that environment whereas he wa sinking lower as he went to a number of local schools, ccs, worked menial jobs and started hanging around others with no direction in life. It started to reinforce his own crazy percepitions. The better the group of people he was with, the higher his goals. Doesn’t always work, I know. But what the heck do you do when a 16, 17 year old doesn’t want to do chores, get up from bed, go to school? Most schools will let them quit at 16, so the truant officer can’t help. They are usually big lugs, but still dumb so kicking them out of the house usually has them move in with bad company that may have some drinks, drugs, sex, parties to lighten up the mood, and these dopes may just like that life better. Yeah, they may get tired of it later, but do you really want to live this? Let them get all of those vices at college among kids who also have higher goals and are doing something as well, like getting through school. I don’t think mine considered the lone life without college as they never really got more than a whiff of it. Those in the family who did, often followed the scent and are living substandard lives to this day. They never could get off track. We all get off track at times, but to make that kind of a move at age 16 or so could be deadly. </p>
<p>Most of us posting here are truly fortunate to have this sort of problem. Most of the time we push them out the door of highschool and into college. There are families not so fortunate where the kids have truly brushed against the dark side of life and are attracted to it. And some of these folks are good parents with other kids who are model kids, normal kids. Somehow, things didn’t work for that one, and who could say if anything would have worked for any particular kid? There can come a point where a family has to cut some of the ties, but when and how many are really an individual thing. </p>
<p>And I do believe that our kids in some ways are like that precious son in that they have no need to do certain things that are done for them. I think my son was in shock that the garbage does not empty itself, when he lived with 5 other guys in a house. Those guys were as bad as he in doing household chores. He had lucked out in have a meticulous roommate freshman year who cleaned everything and took care of everything of that sort. S is now in a nice apartment and from what I gather, he is finally learning to housekeep, as his roommate would probably kick him out if he did not at least clean up a little. And he knows what the alternative quarters would be–he’s lived there for 3 years, and likes this nice, clean, new apartment much better than the slum he had at college. He’s finally learning that socks are not disposable, toilet paper does not replenish itself, and it costs a lot to eat out all of the time. A little on the slow side, but we are finally getting there. My nephew, too, has learned to housekeep. My friend’s son who she felt was not going to make it out of highschool is doing quite well, and in the process of buying a condo, and is working a second job to build up a business of his own. 6 years ago, she was ready to have him hauled into a foster home. They do turn around sometimes, but the suffering they can cause is very real, very painful as you just do not know what to do and what the outcome is going to be.</p>
<p>My 8th grader has ADD and some of these issues are brewing.</p>
<p>For now I get weekly emails, like Docmom, and thus I know over the weekend what needs to be taken care of prior to him farting around with his friends. I do not really hover, just ask to see the stuff his teachers need him to do. No stuff, no going out. Seems to be working okay. I aboslutely resent doing this but I think he needs some oversight from me to keep himself honest. We started with me sitting down with him & helping him organize; now I am weaned off that but still checking the assignments are being completed.</p>
<p>Jamimom, my D had a C on midsemester and we were terrified it would sink ED but it did not thank God. I am keeping a careful eye on senioritis too.</p>
<p>What is funny is that these two kids are as socially, humanistically, & morally aware & responsible as two kids could be. They just don’t get as engaged in ‘book larnin’ as they do in actual life situations.</p>
<p>Yeah, but a D? And he is only taking 3 academic courses, albeit they are all AP level. I am really worried. He did not have to send in the MIdyear report for this school, but they well want the end ofyear, and his school only shows final grades, so I have hired a tutor. You would think at this level, he would finally get it. I have not said a word to anyone I know because this is so outrageous in my mind. And we sank a fortune into his college process. I just want him in college and I want to board the other one. Am just too old for this anymore, and I still have the 3 little ones. The 6th grader has very severe ADHD, but for the past two years a very structured life with 15 minutes each day spent going over the daily, weekly, month calendar and this new medication has done wonders. I am almost ready to exhale.</p>
<p>Jamimom, have patience with me, but I think either you are missing my point or I am not making it clear … probably the latter.</p>
<p>In reference to the friend’s kid and her being helpless to make him do chores if he decided to miss school: Did she have the keys to the 16 year old’s car? Did she do his laundry for him? Cook for him? Give him money occasionally? Drive him to anywhere he wanted to go? Well then, he had no reason to change. <em>His</em> day to day, his standard of living, his frustration level was allowed to be very easy. She owned the problem and probably all his life let him get away with this attitude.</p>
<p>You are correct that it is tough to start being a benevolent dictator when the kid is already 16 - it really should happen <em>all along</em>. Now, that said, if you go back to page one and read about my doctor brother-in-law I will also tell you that HIS son, my sister’s kid, is just the same way as he was. He often tells my sister, “Honey, don’t worry, you are a very good mother. I’m apologizing again for the gene pool.” Their second child is a breeze, thank God, so my sister can see it isn’t something she’s doing wrong and kids are just different. BUT…they have always made their problem child fall and the face consequences, and guess what, the kid is 15 and <em>still</em> has to try the road of hard knocks before getting his act together - every single time. My sister has just come to accept this is part of who he is, and certainly her husband turned out okay, but they let him know his inaction is just plain unacceptable and the boom gets lowered. Of course, it has been this way with this kid from birth - he certainly was born with this predisposition, and it is hell for my sister, even though she does the right thing with him. Some kids are just harder than others, and luckily he will be out of the house in three years to live or die by his own sword. I know it doesn’t make it easier, but at least there is a plan for the kid at home and he knows they <em>will</em> follow through and it’s not just all talk. He is not allowed to break their rules.</p>
<p>I have met many, many people with highly successful kids. Where the kids were relatively easy all along the parents were in charge and the kids KNEW it. One friend with eight kids had someone say to him once, “How do you get your teenagers to go to church?” His reply, puzzled, was, “What do you mean? I tell them to get in the car.” His kids, all eight of them, knew if they didn’t go to church they’d be miserable later, and it wasn’t worth it. But then again, he and his wife probably did this from age two.</p>
<p>I promise you my kids are afraid of what I’d do to them if I ever caught them doing something they shouldn’t, and here’s the kicker: I am not surprised if they test me and do the thing wrong to begin with. They’re KIDS. They’re supposed to test, mess up, fail, and I’m supposed to make sure they have every reason to follow my rules, do their chores, and get the grades they should. </p>
<p>To me, if you’re communicating, communicating, communicating and loving, loving, loving, it makes it measurably easier to discipline kids. The kids don’t like it but they sure know why I’m doing it and that I love them deeply.</p>
<p>dcmom,</p>
<p>I too am a benevolent dictator. </p>
<p>You’ll love this consequence that I dreamed up. My 13 year old started slipping in 7th when he went from one teacher to 7 and the organization was much harder. When it became clear to me that he was not taking down his assignments in class-- despite being warned, reminded, etc-- I decided to go to school with him and spend the whole day at his side. After he figured out that instead of dropping him off I was going to be getting out of the car and walking into the building, he <em>freaked</em>. I calmly said, “honey, I think you just need some help getting all your assignments written down and I am here to help you. I have asked you to do this, but clearly you can’t.” He started to get nasty with me and I said, “hon, at this point your choice is: do I sit in the back row or, do i sit right next to you? cause I AM COMING IN.” He stopped shouting. We got out of the car & I followed him into the building. He was mortified.</p>
<p>I won’t say it was a miracle cure but his assignment book had much more filled in from then on. </p>
<p>Some kids make you have to do absolutely horrible things to them because nothing else stops them short. What amused me was the number of moms who called me to say “right on” once word of my day at school got around.</p>
<p>I can relate to Jamimom’s post and situation and especially the difficulties of large hulking teenage boys. Mine are now 19,17 and 14 with 2 DD’s 21 and 18. Two are in college now and 1 hs senior, junior and freshman.</p>
<p>I am a single mom and when they were little, especially the boys, I wondered how I would physically ENFORCE my rules if it ever came down to that. I talked to my dad (ex-military) and said maybe they should move closer so I could have his influence. It was not to be til just last year for only a year, and he said I needed to be able to do it on my own with them, if I really wanted their respect. Because it was respect that would get me through.</p>
<p>I knew sports had helped me throughout the years, so I had the kids (sons and DDs) do some sport, any sport all year long. I couldn’t afford many of the fees, so the coaches and teams let me work off the fees in other ways (admin, clerical, fund-raising). Eventually the kids were old enough were they could work-off the fees themselves. DD coaches, sons also coach and referee. The extra money went for piano and trumpet lessons. The knew how hard it was to get to every practice, game, meet, match… How hard it was to afford uniforms, leotards, swim suits, cleats, gloves… Most was second hand, hand-me-downs, and bought on clearance at a discount store! They have over the years helped rummage through garage sales, thrift stores, and bargain hunting for school supplies, school clothes and shoes, furniture…whatever we need at the time. The computer I use, we use now is a lap top that my brother-in-law broke. He thought maybe one of the boys could tinker with it and get it to kinda work.</p>
<p>Oldest son and middle, took it apart and put it back together, ran some new software on it and viola! we have a computer. Bikes were on clearance for $17 at Target last year so the kids can get around much better. We have 1 car, and only I drive, can only afford insurance for me and its not in the best condition, has a little over 217,000 miles. But she gets us were we need to go! (Car is affectionately named Bessie) Dogs and cats found their way home from the SPCA and the kids have found creative ways to keep them healthy and fed. </p>
<p>They have always shared rooms until just last year, when we moved. So they have really, really obnoxious alarm clocks to wake them all up. That kind of honkin’ sound?? I worried how we as a family would be when one and the next and the next would leave for college since each one has become so integral to having the family function and survive. But as each one peels away and leaves, they pass their resposibilities to the next in line, and surprise surprise, they have shared in the additional responsibilites and done well. </p>
<p>Like Jamimom, all mine have zero absences at school and will not be late. They have to ride the bus so they can’t miss it. Besides if one is up in the morning THEY are all up. Kinda how consequences work around here. If the homework isn’t done, no TV. For everybody. And they hate that. Same with any other privileges. No special movies or dinners out if ANY of them bring home a bad report card. It has been that way since they were little. They pretty much police each other since their privileges are all linked to each other.</p>
<p>I guess that is why I don’t have to wake them up, nag about homework, stay on top of notebooks (heck I don’t even know if they have any). Son’s were always sloppy with their papers, they could navigate the garbage.</p>
<p>It all came back to what my dad said, they needed to respect me and THEMSELVES enough to live and conduct themselves in a way that would be acceptable to us as a family. </p>
<p>I think through their sports (especially their coaches) football, baseball and swimming they were taught time management skills, personal responsibility, personal integrity, respect and pride. They were to exemplify these on the field, at home and at school. I really cannot imagine how they would have turned out and succeeded without the team interaction and coaches’ leadership.</p>
<p>To be honest, in wish-it-was-april’s post of her telling her son to get up and being told by him to “go the **** away”, I don’t know what my response would be. Rolled eyes and sighs are NOT acceptable in my house, mine are NOT even allowed to answer “what” if they are being called by name!!! If I say “John…” I will not tolerate “what” back! I know it may sound silly, but it keeps them from being rude.</p>
<p>My kids live by the saying “if Mom knew, would she be proud?” They have been taught to live this with their actions, words and deeds. Of course, we have had ups and downs, but they always want to answer “yes, she would have been proud.”</p>
<p>So yes, I have hulking 14 and 17 and 19 year old sons, who are defensive and offensive lineman and I am maybe 5 feet tall, but that doesn’t allow them the right to ever not respect me or the house rules. They know what a privilege it is to have the opportunity to attend college and do everything in their power to not lose that opportunity. They also know they have to pay their own way for college, but that is a different thread!!!</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Robyrm, My parents told me the same thing! Never go to sleep angry. When I asked my mom about it, as a married woman myself, she said that one night they stayed up all night. It was apparently my dad’s idea. They were happily married for 49 years, until my dad died. Really happily!</p>
<p>I am amazed at how calm I am today - I decided I will not even ask if S made it to school on time. He will probably volunteer the details but I will not bring it up. This thread is so timely for me. I had decided that on our return from the mid-Feb. college trip, that he would be on his own in terms of getting up. But he arrived home sick and so it was hard to implement. But now I am bound and determined!</p>
<p>NJres, Loved your post. Tow truck, indeed!</p>
<p>Jamimom, I always appreciate your wise posts. I have been fortunate (just dumb luck, I really believe) that the problems we’ve faced with our two have never been especially serious. After feeling badly for a long time that I am too involved, I am thinking that perhaps I did what I needed to do, given the kids I have and the person I am. I will think good thoughts about that D! </p>
<p>My S has senioritis too, and got a mid year grade of B- (his lowest to date). I am worrying it will slip to a C, especially as his attitude (as in: I wish I never signed up for this class) has upset a favorite teacher who is taking it personally. He is putting in a little more time and is now pulling B’s but with LAX season underway, and taking more and more of his attention, I worry. Of course he was annoyed when I suggested he study a bit last night for tomorrow’s test, and would not… </p>
<p>While we were in Miami, he was like a different child. He stopped cursing, and we actually had conversations that were not about things he had to do. Don’t get me wrong - I am a huge fan of family dinners and we do talk about lots of things - but so many of our interactions seem to be me reminding him of one thing or another. It was nice to have a vacation from that.</p>
<p>One last funny story, for any of you who need a laugh. H is a sociologist, and when D was about 12 or 13 (meaning S was about 5), we found ourselves at the dinner table, discussing a study that found that HS kids who ate dinner regularly with their parents were less likely to be promiscuous. D, who always had a great vocabulary, and had heard sociological things since babyhood, understood completely. Fast forward to the following week. At the time, H was president of our synagogue, and was missing more family dinners than I would have liked. When we discussed it, D said, “Dad, you better come home for dinner tonight! Do you want me to be promiscuous???”</p>
<p>Kat,</p>
<p>I was quite taken with your post, even before you commented about my S’s rude speech. You are totally correct - I allow him to get away with too many things. When we talk about how much I dislike the cursing, he tells me to get a life, reminding me that he has great grades, a job, a college acceptance with merit money, that he’s a good driver, and that he doesn’t drink or do drugs - that he is basically a very good kid. He is right, and other parents comment to me all the time about his maturity and about how respectfully he interacts with them. </p>
<p>But D has said that she is amazed at how much I allow M to “get away” with - especially in how he speaks to me at times. I blame the cursing in part on what is heard in the media, such that it becomes “acceptable” in the world. (I never heard a curse word until I got to college. I also never ate fast food until then!) But I do notice that the more I nag, the more he curses. I think it is his way of trying to get me to see that he really hates it. So maybe if I can keep a handle on the nagging, the general tone of discourse will improve. It also helps when H reprimands him, and threatening to refuse to let him use a car (he doesn’t have one and drives ours) really works wonders. But I would prefer to get the message across in other ways, if I knew how… </p>
<p>You are to be commended for raising such fine kids!</p>
<p>SBMom - you will be retelling that story one day when he least expects it - or he will be! One time when my oldest was about 13 he was wearing those <em>really</em> wide legged jeans to school. I was a little horrified but my mom, his grandma, bought them for him. They were hilarious. As he was walking out to the bus I made him stop so I could take his picture. He was like, “what are you doing that for??” And I said, “Oh, don’t think those jeans aren’t coming back to haunt you someday. I’m already planning the collage for your rehearsal dinner.” Even he laughed.</p>
<p>Okay, I LOVE your consequence. I smiled through the whole thing. I am on my <em>third</em> 13-year-old, 7th grade boy, and I am glad it’s the last (just one daughter to go. I know, I know, it’ll probably be worse). Both of the first two boys seemed to be grounded and on restrictions for most of 7th grade - the first one for grades (just didn’t think he needed to do the homework since he knew the material) – second son mostly behavior - acting out - but a little for grades, too. Believe it or not my son in college thanked me the other day for the 7th grade consequences. Said if I hadn’t cracked down then by making him owning his grade issues he wouldn’t be in the school he is today. I asked him to write it down and sign it in blood because I wasn’t sure this would ever happen again and I needed the evidence. </p>
<p>I think 7th grade boys just decide they’re completely grown up now and can say what they want and do what they want, or NOT do what I want, just…because. The testosterone is flowing and they’re pushing each other in the halls, giving each other flat tires, knocking books out of each others’ arms. Bless junior high teachers!</p>
<p>Kat, I thought it was interesting how you punish one, you punish them all. I bet that taught them to stick together and work together - besides, that’s often how it is in the real world. And I am going to adopt this excellent thought and stencil it on the ceilings above their beds: "My kids live by the saying “if Mom knew, would she be proud?” Or maybe I’ll just tape it on all the bathroom mirrors. Really good.</p>
<p>Did any of you see Jamie Fox last night accept his academy award? Later on BWalter’s he talked about his grandma who raised him, and how she never let him get away with anything. She was so MEAN he said. Yet he adored her.
I’m not advocating a "whoopin’ 'as he apparently received for discipline, or the constant load of guilt that she laid on him, but the message was clear. The strict line he had to walk made him the success he is today. She never let him fall on his face - he made sure he didn’t fall because if he did, he had her to answer to.</p>
<p>He probably only had to fall once or twice at a young age to put the fear of God in him for the rest of his life :)</p>
<p>Kat-
You are a wonderful example of “ya-do-what-ya-gotta-do” to get by… The group consequences are very effective, and do foster cooperative behavior. 5 kids as a single mom is an incredible challenge, ans it sounds like you did a great job.</p>
<p>Docmom, jamimom and wish<em>it</em>was_april-- I am sure I have gotten all the scenarios mixed up in my head.Sounds like the challenges have been similar, though.</p>
<p>The decision to let them sink or swim vs ruling with an iron hand is based on so many variables that you can’t make a blanket decision. It isn’t that black or white. Each kid and each family is different. That said, I have always followed the rule “you can always make the rules looser, but it is hard to start out loose and then try to tighten them.” So, we started out pretty structured with expectations. Used behavior mod. plans and rewarded “attitude and cooperation”. Priviledges were earned. No entitlements here. Bonus points for doing something the first time asked. As they demonstrated responsible behavior, the need to hover over them lessened. When they were younger, we’d sit with the TV guide, and if they earned a certain amount of TV watching that day, they had to sit down and circle what shows they planned to watch., identify when they were on, up to the maximum earned that day. Again, planned ahead-- didn’t just lower the boom and turn the TV off when the time was up. </p>
<p>I did not tolerate bad language. If they cursed at me or called me a derogatory name, they dipped their tongue into a dab of liquid soap (which they got out of the soap container). Maybe they got a micromolecule of soap on their tongue, followed by lots of rinsing and spitting, but that behavior stopped pretty quick. Keep in mind, this is when they were younger. We nipped that in the bud at an early age. </p>
<p>We also told them, when we heard too much b-i-t-ching and whining that the complaint department was closed, and we’d walk away. But we rewarded successes and good behavior big time. </p>
<p>OK-- fast forward to HS-- Hormones and work loads change. Study skill and habits and time management skills are all still a work in progress and videogames and online chats with friends became a higher priority. Our rule was, simply, “first things first”. </p>
<p>Biggest issue-- IMPOSSIBLE to awaken older s. in the morning in HS. He went from waking up with the chickens to requiring a crowbar. Older s. did not hear (truly did not hear) the radio blaring that woke the rest of us in the house, and really was not fully conscious in the early awakening stages. He had little memory of what he did or said, but would apologize profusely when I told him I got kicked or swung at. DH was much better at getting him up in the a.m., but he (hubby) travelled. I resorted, after wet washcloths didn’t work too well (though cold was more effective than hot), to hiring younger s. to awaken older bro. Didn’t matter how much I offered him-- he quit after the first day-- said it wasn’t worth it. I then resorted to an air horn. Younger s. and I practically jumped out of our skin. Older s. didn’t budge. The combination of true changes in sleep patterns that occur with adolescence, combined with not enough sleep because he worked on schoolwork til well past when I fell asleep made mornings really tough. But as the boys go to a school 30 mi away, missing the bus and driving them was not an option. Older s. began to arrange a carpool with some of the older students, and asked for help waking up. We asked him for suggestions-- he didn’t have many, other than to stay in his room, pull the sheets and blankets off and wait until both feet were on the floor before we left. Eliciting his input and suggestions reduced battles. </p>
<p>In his sr yr, older s. drove younger s. to school. So, we needed him (1) fully awake and coherent and (2) on time. The good news is, he wasn’t unwilling to get up and go, he just was not conscious in the early morning. So, we weren’t battling will, but biology. We continued the reccs he’d given in his jr year, and we managed to get through. Once he got out of bed and into the shower, he became human. As a graduation present, younger s. and I bought older s. an alarm clock from a website for the hearing impaired!! It starts soft, gets louder and louder and had a vibrating thing to put under the pillow or mattress. You can also buy one that flashes the lights on and off. As long as we all worked on the problem together, and tried to be creative with solutions, battles were minimal- and typically only in those early morning hours. </p>
<p>OK-- this is too long. At this point , DS is a fresh in college. Still used the alarmclock for the hearing impaired (its pretty funny) and sets the clock across the room so he has to get up to turn it off. Unfortunately his bed is lofted and he’s fallen a time or two, but no serious injuries. If he misses a morning class, its his responsibility to get the info, and as long as the grades stay up (which they have) I don’t care. I choose my battles. We’ve tried to stay focused on the solution, not the problem, and have tried to work together to come up with ideas. Alliances are more successful than power struggles. Pretty hard for them to argue when you are doing what they request.</p>
<p>Jamimom-- if your s. got into Yale and got some merit money from somewhere (Yale doesn’t give it), he must have a lot strengths. I’d try to get him to do the work to solve the problem, don’t you do it. But, that said, insist he have a good plan-- kinda like “The Apprentice”. And reward the effort, not just the outcome.</p>
<p>Oh-- by the way, DS’s roommate is a TOTAL slob. S thought he was bad 'til he met his roommate. It has caused s. to appreciate some degree of cleanliness and he works much harder at it. (well, “much” is relative). I say you set <em>reasonable</em> expectations for your kids, and try to start early. I don’t think having “he who expects nothing will never be disappointed” is a very good yearbook quote.</p>
<p>No merit money. No financial aid. No outside scholarships. The money flows only one way with that one. Out. He will be full freight, not full ride, but I am not complaining. I am lighting candles that he will get there without mishap.</p>
<p>wish<em>it</em>were_april, I remember you from Tulane threads. Has your S decided where he will go? Mine is still undecided. Was thinking Tulane, but not sure now.</p>
<p>I have told this story before but it so fits your son’s situation, Jym. My son was having trouble getting up in the mornings and we were not about to help him as he had to be somewhere before 5 am. He set up his stereo at the foot of his bed with the speakers aimed at him, and it was set up to be the alarm–right through those speakers and loud. My brother stayed the night one Friday, and we gave him S’s room as he was not going to be home that weekend. He thought that it was kind of neat that S liked to lie there in bed and listen to the music in such a sweet spot. That is until 4:30 Am when he nearly literallly hit the ceiling when the alarm went off. Without his glasses, in the dark, still disoriented, he had to try to find the off button. I think he’ll vouch for this method of getting even a deep sleeper up. Since S has a basement room, it did not do thing to any of us.</p>