<p>And how is is a person who has no income supposed to come up with 6+ months advance rent? She’s afraid her husband will blow a gasket if she opens up a checking account in her own name – he’s probably not going to offer up cash up front for her future apartment deposit. And no, it would not be o.k. to simply withdraw that amount from their joint account. </p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>so, essentially then only a working spouse or a spouse who has non-community property money can move out and rent a place? Is that what you are saying? Even in a normal renting situation, first month’s rent plus security deposit could easily be a few thousand. where would a sahm spouse get that money otherwise?</p>
<p>frankly, I think the OP understands that she eventually will get half the assets, but I dont think she realizes how getting spousal support is going to be more touchy.</p>
<p>How have you two as a couple made big decisions before? Does your husband decide and you go along to keep the peace? That is easy to do with a controlling partner. Again, I think if one is hoping the other will initiate the divorce especially during a heated argument, then that person isn’t taking responsibility for their own happiness. They are expecting/allowing the other person to run the show. Not fair to make someone else make the decisions and then complain about the result. And if they refuse to change the dynamic when you have changed your behavior, and you are still unhappy, then leave.</p>
<p>I think the OP expects her husband to be reasonable but I can certainly see where he would think she was not being reasonable in expecting him to pay thousands of dollars for her to live in an apartment because that would make her happier. She said she has family support available and doesn’t seem all that worried about the money part. She also said there’s no reason she couldn’t work and support herself, although finding a job that will do that after decades as a SAHM is no easy task. Actually, this is why lots of people in this situation just stay married. It’s much cheaper.</p>
<p>Honestly, when couples decide to divorce, one or the other does not always move out immediately. We lived together for several (uncomfortable) months before ex-H moved out. Partly because he assumed he would keep the house (planned to move his girlfriend in and keep the kids there, just keep right on his merry way and somehow I would just disappear in his scenario). That certainly isn’t how it went (sitting in that house right now as I type this). But it isn’t uncommon for it to take a period of time for one person to sort out different living accommodations. </p>
<p><<<
. They are expecting/allowing the other person to run the show. Not fair to make someone else make the decisions and then complain about the result.
<<<</p>
<p>anytime you go along with someone else’s decision, the YOU are deciding to go with the other person’s decision.</p>
<p>My H used to complain that I planned all our vacations. But I always asked for lots of input…dates, destination, budget, what to see/do, etc…and I would always get little/no response. Usually the response was, just plan it, you do a good job. Well, I had to point out to him that when he had me make the decisions, then HE is making the decision to let me make the decision. lol</p>
<p>I get the sense OP is a fairly sophisticated/savvy woman even if she is not working. I also think the family may even be quite well off (assets in a trust). It wouldn’t surprise me if H or she could easily afford to pay for 6+ months rent upfront. That’s how my ex got his apartment. Income is not the most impost criteria in renting/buying an apartment.</p>
<p>Yes, I got that sense, too. Otherwise the financial issues would be more worrisome for her. They seem not to be that big a deal, fortunately. Frequently, they are everything.</p>
<p>Mom2college… We are on the same page. He says plan the vacation and you do. He can’t start complaining then about the hotel isn’t nice, or why did we fly this airline etc. That’s where the not fair part comes in. (Not saying he does this)</p>
<p>I can understand why someone with a controlling angry spouse goes along with bad behavior. The spouse is a bully and knows that being angry gets him his way, but the spouse has to learn to assert herself and be confident that it is ok for her to have opinions. </p>
<p>If she doesn’t learn to be the kind of person she wants to be, she might end up in another relationship like this one.</p>
<p><<<<
He says plan the vacation and you do. He can’t start complaining then about the hotel isn’t nice, or why did we fly this airline etc. That’s where the not fair part comes in. (Not saying he does this)</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>lol…yes, he has complained about various things…like one time he complained that I hadnt scheduled any gym-time…even tho I repeatedly showed him suggested daily itineraries and asked for improvements…and this was for friggin WDW where just walking around the huge parks is practically training for a marathon. lol (you need a work out after EPCOT??)</p>
<p>My MIL always deferred to her demanding, bossy H. But at some point, she needed to own that she never spoke up, “hey, I would like to watch X show tonight,” (her H controlled the TV), or “hey, this area isnt safe anymore, we can afford to move to ZZZ which is a lovely suburb and our grandkids are nearby.”…and so forth. Instead, she kind of suffered in silence. </p>
<p>anyway…back to the OP. </p>
<p>I plan vacations as well with spouse’s input and then when he would complain I would start apologizing and trying to make it better. I had to learn to say to myself “ignore the complaints, you asked his opinion, he gave none, so now he doesn’t get to complain” and when I started saying “hey I asked your opinion and you agreed to this” he dropped his complaints. Wow who knew I could stand up for myself so easily and he would drop his comments and go with the flow? This is what I wonder if OP needs to practice when husband is throwing a tantrum. </p>
<p>Ah, but what does one do when the spouse is called on the behavior but still carries on, disregarding the fairness issue and refusing to go with the flow? Tonight I got yelled at for not paying the credit card bill yet (due the 17th). I typically do the bills the weekend before they are due. Ranting and raving about how I can’t be trusted, etc., etc., ensued. Pointed out that we have never paid a late fee. The target then changed to a grocery receipt with a rebate that he couldn’t find. He was impatient at the hospital because the docs and nurses weren’t efficient enough for his liking. (Mind you I went to the doc yesterday am, was an emergency admit to the hospital yesterday afternoon and just got home a few hours ago.)</p>
<p>I see fairly clearly that he is scared as hell about something happening to me and expresses it as anger. I try living without getting sucked into his insanity and it makes him madder. He is angry that I won’t bend like a pretzel any more to protect him from his own anxiety and control issues. He is angry that he can’t force me to change my behavior. I HAVE to take care of myself and not get sucked into this. The stress of doing otherwise is killing me.</p>
<p>I see myself in a boat similar to OP and I don’t know how to paddle away from the rapids. Sorry to go OT. Just needed to rant.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>When people do that, then their targets arent really what is bothering/upsetting them.<br>
@jym626 could explain this better, but these targets are often red herrings. As you have noted, there are anxiety and control issues going on. </p>
<p>My gut tells me that they are in a bad mood and want to rant about something/anything, so whatever they can latch onto (for the moment) to complain about gives them a fleeting second of relief…but it is only a fleeting second, so onto the next.</p>
<p>My unprofessional opinion is that folks who are moody often have depression/anxiety issues.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>You cant make sense out of nonsense. You’ve made a rational point, and if they are going to be irrational in response, then the best you can try is a SET response (support, empathy, truth)…and see if that gets thru at all. </p>
<p>“” The letters in “SET” stand for “Support, Empathy, Truth”, and the overall concept is very simple.</p>
<p>The “S” in “SET” refers to the importance of beginning your communication with a supportive comment. This is basically any statement that conveys a fundamental level of respect or caring. There are ways to do this even in situations where you vehemently disagree with the other person. It may be as simple as saying “I hope we can work this out", “Your opinion is important” or “Thanks for letting me know how you feel”. As the old saying goes, people don’t care what you know unless they know that you care.</p>
<p>The “E” of “SET” represents the value of next making an empathetic comment. Empathy is any clear demonstration that you understand the emotional experience another person is having. It’s not enough to simply say “I know how you feel”. Detailed statements are much more effective, such as “I bet you’re pretty frustrated", “You probably wish I’d stop bothering you”, or “This must be difficult for you”. </p>
<p>The “T” of “SET” is the sharing of your point of view (i.e. your truth) to the other person. While this is the part most people say first it’s generally the last step you should take. It’s best to start by expressing supportive (“S”) and empathetic (“E”) comments since they are much more likely to be well received and thus set the stage for you to effectively communicate what is true (“T”) for you.
“”</p>
<p><a href=“Get "SET" For Effective Communication”>http://billherring.info/atlanta_counseling/get-set-for-effective-communication</a></p>
<p>So sorry, CD. And to all who experience the downs. And I think many of us here have. None of this is all easy, all the time. </p>
<p>I think the behavior modifications should be happening very early in the marriage, like in the first 6 months, and not after 30 years because the bad habit has already being formed.
One thing I noticed is that my husband who is usually nice and pleasant but as he ages there are times that he is a little bit, shall I say, unlike himself. I now have to be the reasonable person which is very rare before. What happens to my calm and carry-on husband?</p>
<p>Our day to day interaction became unbearable due to 30 years of life together. Our lives became so intertwined, we viewed the other person’s problem/difficulty as our own, so if the other person didn’t resolve it the way we would want, we became irritated and sounded short with each other. At the same time, if we didn’t care we wouldn’t get so upset either. In CD’s case, her H was probably scared, and he didn’t know how to express it so he took it out on her. </p>
<p>Recently we went out to dinner as a family because our kids wanted it. We all had a good time catching up with our kids’ lives. What was missing was my ex and I jabbing at each other. We could listen to what the other was saying without getting all caught up in “how to fix it,” or wanting to tell the other person what to do. Our realization that we are no longer each other’s responsibility, made us less critical of each other, and we could actually have a decent conversation without escalating it to an argument. At the end, we stopped talking because we wanted to avoid more arguments.</p>
<p>Life kind of wears us down sometimes. If we could try to balance out between caring too much to giving each other too much space, maybe some of our marriages would last.</p>
<p>When the spouse is called on the behavior and still carries on then maybe that is the time to go for counseling or separation. It’s enough to have to take care of ourselves. I hope you are able to rest today, CD, after your scary hospitalization.</p>
<p>Old fort, now that you aren’t living with sniping and arguments, would you say you are better off without him or were you better off with him? </p>
<p>It is too early to say. What I can say is there is a sense of peace. I want to say sense of loneliness is more physical (having someone else in the house), but emotionally I probably have been lonely for a long time. I wouldn’t be surprised if my ex and I can be better friends than H/W.</p>
<p>Oldfort, I love hearing stories about ex spouses who are able to do that, and your observations are wise. My parents had a divorce of this sort, and I’ve always been grateful for them and me that things between them were so companionable for decades. I hear you on the loneliness! </p>
<p>The SET principle is very wise. Thank you! </p>
<p>Another tool I have found useful is the book and course used in some organizations, Crucial Conversations. All of the principles, which sold as an organizational tool, apply to personal relationships. <a href=“http://www.wikisummaries.org/Crucial_Conversations:_Tools_for_Talking_When_Stakes_are_High”>http://www.wikisummaries.org/Crucial_Conversations:_Tools_for_Talking_When_Stakes_are_High</a> </p>
<p>My favorite principle that I come back to over and over, thought not always implemented in the heat of the moment, is Create Safety. Most people are threatened by difficult conversations, so confirming respect, and narrowing the scope of what is being discussed, as well as affirming mutually held goals, can lessen the sense of attack that some folks assume when faced with any marital or other discussion. </p>