how do you make the big decision to leave a spouse?

Parent Cafe
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You tiptoe around at home because any expression of disapproval, even a glance at an open cupboard (as you wrote before), he sees as disapproval and he explodes like a volcano. He treats the kids the same way, who knows what they’ve internalized about men (and esp. authority figures such as future bosses) by this time? In the past when you’ve brought up leaving more as an indication of how serious things were to you than out of any real intent to leave, he squelched that - “don’t say it again until you’re willing to do it”. Escalate the consequences and see if she’ll really go thru with it or back off! Peace in or time, or should it be peace on our terms?</p>

<p>Do you think he walks around the house in a state of fear of what an offhand comment might bring, constantly self-censoring every sentence and glance? I suspect not. Nor, really, is this a part of his personality beyond his control. Even if in his work he has employees or subordinates he can treat just as abruptly, there must be those (perhaps partners, or customers, or a management chain) to whom such treatment would be career suicide so he doesn’t do it. He can exercise control, he just doesn’t have to. Nor, after 30 years in this marriage, is he likely to be willing to do so. Perhaps there was a time when he would have changed, but he’s so used to having his way that he can’t imagine this marriage any other way.</p>

<p>Posting about your troubles is cathartic. Others care, and feel for you. Posting has probably helped you with the past 3 months, it can help with the next 3, and the next 3 after that. Ad infinitum. If you’re expecting a climatic confrontation where things become so onerous that your hand is forced, not likely to happen. From the airport story he can sense if things are moving that direction and backs off enough to avoid the cliff. And meanwhile days, weeks, months go by and you tiptoe around, avoiding decisions and confrontation. </p>

<p>I don’t know what to say in advice. Nobody can see into the future and promise you that things will be better if you leave. They always say the devil you know is better than the one you don’t, not sure I believe that but its the way many people act. </p>

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<p>I’d rather have peace. </p>

<p>excellent post, badgolfer. I don’t like that you put yourself down with your screen name, why not newgolfer? or something else that represents your strengths? (Sorry to be picky.)</p>

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<p>Stopping by to say Happy Thanksgiving to all and to, well, vent. Things with dh have been surprisingly good. I have made some changes in the way I interact and deal with my h and he has really mellowed out in many ways too. The empty nest has been surprisingly nice. Things aren’t always rosy and part of the changes I’ve made involve backing off a bit and not interacting with dh as much but that seems to result in a more compatible ‘us’.</p>

<p>It was our year to host Thanksgiving this year and, as I’ve mentioned before (not that I expect anyone to remember!) but being in public (or around other people, particularly groups of people) can lead dh to say things that are embarrassing or awkward. Long ago I made a mental switch that these incidents didn’t reflect on me or, maybe better put, that I needed to not personalize them as if I was responsible for dh’s behavior. A couple of nights ago, surrounded by family in our home, dh zinged me by stating something he resented about something I had just done. I felt humiliated. I’m not sure if it was the hour or as a result of dh’s comment to me but all of our guests left shortly thereafter (it really was getting late). We didn’t talk as I was trying to decide if this was something I was willing to confront or not (if it went badly, it could color the whole time we had ahead with all this family in town). The next morning I ended up telling dh how humiliated I felt in one sentence and he apologized. This was monumental for dh. Even though that two sentence exchange wasn’t quite enough for me, I recognize that I could talk something to death and I married someone who has very little need to discuss feelings or interpersonal issues. I really was impressed that dh had just been able to apologize without being defensive or reiterating why I shouldn’t…</p>

<p>That brings us to last night. We had a lovely dinner and we were sitting around afterwards and the subject of a family member’s rather rebellious adolescence came up. Dh piped up with some references to my own past that I keep very well hidden and he knows this. Our kids were there, along with the generation older than myself and these are things that they don’t know either. He didn’t spill all and it was said as a joke but, again, I was mortified. Probably more importantly, it just makes me feel like I can’t trust dh. Not trust as in he’ll go have an affair or go buy a motorcycle when we’ve agreed that’s not OK but trust him to…respect me or think of me before going for the laugh or being the center of attention. I’ve been with dh well over half my life and have been here before but each time it hits me just as hard when he does this type of thing.</p>

<p>So, now I have to decide if I say something to dh again and, tbh, I’m trying hard not to go back to that place where I leap to thinking about leaving. Part of my new strategy has been to let things go and, really, it’s worked well. Maybe dh was able to apologize about the first incident because I haven’t confronted him about anything in ages. And, even though I don’t think this should matter, dh’s family wasn’t able to come this year so it was only my family and dh is the family cook. So, he cooked the majority of the meal, spending, as everyone knows, a huge amount of time to prepare a lovely meal and it was all for my family. Granted, he chooses to do this as he likes his own cooking best so he doesn’t resent it but I could see him feeling like he just spent all this effort and I’m just going out of my way to pick on him. And, my family is filled with introverts and keeping the conversation flowing can sometimes be a challenge. Dh and I both work hard to keep things going and so, even though dh made numerous comments where I internally cringed, I do appreciate that he is funny, can tell a good story and help keep a good dynamic going. His boundaries seem to get fuzzy. Still, my new focus has been to better appreciate the good and let go of the not-so-good. At the moment, I’m having a tough time with that since dh really crossed a line in that he is well aware of how hidden I choose to keep certain things about my teenage years.</p>

<p>I haven’t thought about this thread in awhile but woke up feeling angry, alienated by dh and also stuck in that there’s no one I can talk to about this right now. This thread popped into my head so here I am. Thank you for providing me with a place to vent and, again, I hope everyone had a lovely Thanksgiving!</p>

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<p>That was a very low blow on the part of your DH. I don’t have any advice to give you, but I don’t blame you a bit for feeling betrayed. I personally would not let that go…but you have to do what you think is best for the big picture.</p>

<p>I’m sorry this happened to you when things were going so well at that moment. Hang in there.</p>

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<p>@hardtoknow, I understand completely what he did and why you feel the way you do. He betrayed you and shared things with exactly the people you didn’t want them shared with. And he knew that before he said those things – it’s not like he did it by accident. </p>

<p>I think (but it’s just me) that you do need to talk to him about what he did and gauge his reaction. If you can’t trust him to hold confidences that all married couples have, then you can’t trust him, period. If he is apologetic and reacts with genuine humility and remorse, then there’s hope, but he’s going to need to be much more mindful before he speaks. </p>

<p>And if he gets defensive and starts with the “I cooked my fingers to the bone for your family!” stuff, that’s just a diversion and his way of trying to make you feel guilty and back away. You need to show him (and of course not in any angry, out-of-control way) that you are no longer willing to put up with this. He is an adult. He can control himself. He needs to care about you and your feelings so he doesn’t embarrass you again. </p>

<p>And you need to let him know, calmly and maturely, that those types of things just won’t fly with you anymore.</p>

<p>ETA: His apology yesterday morning may have made him feel (consciously or un-) that he needed to “get back” at you in some way, so he brought up the embarrassing details of your youth. That’s not anything you can control, but he certainly needs to learn how. </p>

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<p>If it were me I would acknowledge the positive of his behavior (“really appreciate you apologizing the other day, cooking for my family, etc”) and then tell him how his recent comment made you feel (own it, as they say). Somebody once told me “90% upside and 10% downside” in that order if you want to give feedback and really have it received. But you have to be in a good enough place to even do that so that you waited is good. I live with a H that immediately goes to defensiveness if he thinks he is about to be critiqued and shuts down, so I have found that this little technique helpful. Of course easier said than done when I’m pi**ed off. >:P I would not let it go though, and he needs to know that it is not okay for him to share such things. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I agree with Swimdogmom.
Thanks for cooking a great dinner.
I felt embarrassed when you brought up my youthful indiscretions and want that information to remain between us
Wasn’t it nice to have the family home?</p>

<p>You need to bring it up or it will become another rock in the bag of resentments we carry on our backs </p>

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<p>I am not married, but I just have to ask, because it sounds very similar to someone I know. Is husband being malicious or just thoughtless/oblivious? A boyfriend of mine a couple times had said things which were supposed to be said to him in confidence. In my case though, it really was just cluelessness/forgetfulness. He didn’t think those things were as big deal as I did, and had forgotten that I asked to keep them private. I know you have had other problems, but I just had to throw this out there - some people don’t do it maliciously. </p>

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<p>acollegestudent, it might be good to remember that Dr. Freud Never Sleeps. What someone chooses to remember or forget can tell you a lot about that person.</p>

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<p>At the very least it was passive aggressive. Whether you want to approach the conversation is another story. I have the feeling you are still holding your breath and waiting for an incident to make a decision. I hope either way you are comfortable and confident in your decision.</p>

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<p>If this was a weekly occurrence then I could see saying something. But it sounds like the two of you have made a lot of progress. I would let it go.</p>

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<p>This is just my gut reaction so it may be completely off the mark…lol</p>

<p>When someone repeatedly does what you’ve described, I believe this is what’s going on…</p>

<p>Your H may suspect or feel that the audience already thinks you are better than he is (maybe because of anything they’ve witnessed before or because they know he hasn’t always treated you very well). So, these little “exposures” that “you aren’t perfect, either” is a lame way to “even the score” and to “dirty you up” a little bit.</p>

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<p>I agree with mom2. He is obviously feeling insecure. I think I would ignore it…don’t give him the satisfaction. </p>

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<p>Adding to my post above…</p>

<p>The one thing that your H probably doesn’t realize is that IF he’s trying to “dirty you up” a bit in front of people who hold you in high regard, then his actions backfire. Likely no one went home thinking, “Gee that Hardtoknow is a bad person.” No, more likely they went home and thought, " Gosh, Mr. HtK shouldn’t have shared that info. It’s in the past and means nothing now." </p>

<p>I’m not saying that your H did anything this extreme, but consider this analogy. Imagine that you had bounced a check THAT DAY (which is still a private matter, even if it is recent), and your H later scolded you in front of these people or even “joked” about it. Everyone would be so shocked that the H had exposed that private matter that no one would even give two-thoughts to your actual screw-up.</p>

<p>You might appeal to your H on THAT grounds…he’s dirtying himself up more than he is dirtying you.</p>

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<p>@hardtoknow -

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<p>Does your Thanksgiving hosting include alcohol (beer or wine)? If so, everyone’s boundaries tend to get fuzzy when there’s been drinking-- it doesn’t take much.</p>

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Maybe you need to re-assess what you are trying to hide from your now-grown kids? Those kind of secrets are not good for your relationship with your offspring – if it is ok for DH to know those things, perhaps it is now time that your over-18, living-away-from-home kids know as well. You are no longer the ever-present role model in their lives. </p>

<p>Think of it this way: if your kids are doing similar things, do you want/expect to hide them from you? Of course kids will tend to hide things that they feel you would disapprove of, but sometimes it’s important for a kid to have someone to confide in. You may have insight, understanding, and wisdom to offer because of your own experiences: but your kids will never know </p>

<p>Secrets have a way of being exposed, sooner or later. Depending on what the secrets are, and when and how they are exposed, it can result in a real sense of of betrayal or loss on the part of the person who was previously shielded from that knowledge.</p>

<p>I’m not saying that it’s right for your DH to disclose these things – but it is possible that his assumptions as to how long those secrets should be kept are different than yours. That is, in your mind it might be “forever” … in his it could very well be something no longer relevant now that the kids are essentially grown and living on their own. </p>

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<p><<<
Maybe you need to re-assess what you are trying to hide from your now-grown kids? Those kind of secrets are not good for your relationship with your offspring – if it is ok for DH to know those things, perhaps it is now time that your over-18, living-away-from-home kids know as well. You are no longer the ever-present role model in their lives.</p>

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<p>While I can see your point about certain things, every person in a committed relationship should be able to trust that that person will not reveal “secrets” without approval. There could be “secrets” that a person wouldn’t even want adult children to know. (I don’t know what those would be, but there certainly could be some). Not all secrets “come out.” And even if they do, then deal with them. </p>

<p>The fact remains that the person with the “secret” should have be able to trust a partner to keep a shared secret…secret. </p>

<p>And, I don’t know why parents are “no longer ever-present role models” once a child becomes an adult. I considered my parents to be role models till the day they died…correction…they are still my role models…they are often the “voices in my head”. </p>

<p>edit
Now that I think about it… When our kids were younger, I told H to never tell the boys that he had hitchhiked. Of course, that wasn’t “my secret” but it would have likely had a bad influence on them. Now, they’re old enough to know that…no biggie. BUT…what if H had done something really kind of bad (say, went to a hooker…or drove drunk)…I could understand why he’d never want his kids or the “older generation” to know that. </p>

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<p>I could NOT disagree more. Children are not entitled to know everything about their parents. </p>

<p>In any case, it was not the DH’s place to reveal whatever it was that is at issue. If the children were to be informed about it, it was the OP’s place and decision to reveal. It absolutely was not the DH’s call to reveal this. It’s totally irrelevant that “his assumptions as to how long those secrets should be kept are different” from the OPs. It certainly doesn’t give him the right to unilaterally act on that and ambush the OP by revealing this without prior permission.</p>

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<p>Absolutely! It doesn’t’ matter what the “secret” is, your partner should be watching your back and even if he disagrees with whether or not something should be kept private, he darn sure shouldn’t be betraying a confidence without discussing this in advance and getting permission from the spouse. </p>

<p>Having a good relationship with adult children should not depend on those children knowing everything about their parents’ business, and vice versa. There is something called personal boundaries which are defined by each individual, and being married to someone doesn’t give a person the right to dictate to the spouse where those boundaries lie. </p>

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<p>If a person wants to keep something a secret, the best way to do that is not to tell anybody. </p>

<p>It is naive for anyone to believe or expect that their “secrets” are being kept by others, especially over the long term. Even if the OP’s husband had never, ever said anything to any other family members in front of her – that’s no guarantee that he (or anyone else who is “in the know”) hasn’t long since disclosed the “secrets” to the same people or to others when she wasn’t around.</p>

<p>I realize there is a difference between secrets that the DH knows because the OP confided in him, and secrets that he knows because he was present in her life at the time to have first hand knowledge. But the point is that she doesn’t own DH’s knowledge She might hope and expect that he will be discrete out of respect for her… but IMHO it’s not reasonable for a person to expect that others will always remember and be able to sort out what was learned only in the strictest confidence, and what is simply a part of shared history. </p>

<p>If it is something disclosed only recently – then yes, one would expect that the nature of the disclosure would also be fresh in the mind of the person to whom one confided. But I had the impression from OP’s post that these involved youthful indiscretions that hadn’t been discussed in many years. </p>

<p>The OP has vented and shared the things that bother her about her DH – but I’m wondering what the DH’s point of view is. He may also feel that he’s walking on eggshells and navigating a minefield, because of a mismatch between emotional resonance attached to things that seem to be ancient history to the husband. </p>

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Yes, but who is doing the dictating? Sounds like the OP may be the one who is dictating to the husband what he may and may not say. </p>

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<p>I can’t imagine a youthful indescretion that would be so awful that my family would change their minds about me. do know that my sister will not reveal much about her childhood to her kids that I have already done to my kids. It really does depend on the person. My sister did not want her kids to know that our mother was schizophrenic…yet I told my kids about this fairly early on.</p>

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<p>Calmom, you said what I was having difficulty putting into words. I wondered if the H knew stuff, but didn’t remember when and how he learned it, and just shared from his memory.</p>

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but IMHO it’s not reasonable for a person to expect that others will always remember and be able to sort out what was learned only in the strictest confidence, and what is simply a part of shared history.

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