<p>I don’t think he will live long either if he keeps flaring up like that. Maybe some health issues. But I agree with Sax, I would have said the same thing but not as eloquent.</p>
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<p>By the end of my marriage the answer to this was obvious. And I wasn’t wrong…</p>
<p>Don’t mean to turn this thread in another direction, but there was interesting article in The Atlantic about happy marriages: <a href=“The Secret to Love Is Just Kindness - The Atlantic”>The Secret to Love Is Just Kindness - The Atlantic;
<p>Basic premise was that the most successful marriages were the ones where spouses treat each other with kindness. I know in my own marriage the worst times are when we react to each other in anger or selfishness. But the times when we approach problems with concern for the other, we have a renewed appreciation for the relationship.</p>
<p>Of course, this only works if both partners believe that kindness is of importance.</p>
<p>Just wanting to express my good wishes to oldfort and OP. Sorry you have to endure these tough times.</p>
<p>@oldfort, me too. I hope you aren’t sorry you mentioned it here (in the interests of helping the OP). You are such a generous poster and I think that just with real-life friends, those of us who have been helped by your advice or just noticed how helpful it was and the spirit with which it was given wish you and your family only the best.</p>
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<p>I can’t stress enough how much I agree with this. I also agree with consulting with a lawyer first.</p>
<p>Personally, I would rather live under a bridge being my own best friend than live one more day with a man who acts as the OP describes.</p>
<p>Oldfort, you mentioned recently that you had closed a joint account with your “ex” and I was confused. My sympathies for your recent troubles and best wishes for a good future for you all going forward. You are being smart to keep your children’s feelings at the forefront and not burdening them with things they don’t really need to know.</p>
<p>Start making a life for yourself - and then think about whether he fits in with it. It will give you a better handle on the question am I better off with him or without him.</p>
<p>I would look at getting a job. Working give you your own money which gives you options. Start your own bank account. It also lets you meet people who are your own friends or colleagues, not both of you. (also these people can give recommendations of lawyers or financial planners)</p>
<p>Get a life. Take a night school course. Go on meetups.com and find a group and start planning your own activities. </p>
<p>Keep up with your own therapy and ask for specific strategies to deal with your husband’s comments. Practice what you want to say. At some point make the decision, not to back down and follow through.</p>
<p>In the fall when the kids are out of the house, plan a vacation on your own or with a girlfriend. </p>
<p>Not sure about the advice re job - this is where I would consult with attorney first. If the OP has primarily been a stay at home mother, with only intermittent work, she should be eligible for alimony, and increasing her income may hurt that.</p>
<p>When I suggested a trial separation, I was thinking you wanted to save the marriage and give him a serious wakeup call.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if you are leaning towards divorce, you are best off keeping your plans secret. Use the summer to follow the suggestions already posted here re seeing attorney and financial advisor, and gather copies of all financial records. If you don’t already have your own checking account open one - at a different bank - and make sure the branch holds the checks for you to pick up rather than mailing them to your home - same with the statements. Same with your own credit card. </p>
<p>I would also take a close friend or relative into your confidence - just in case he does find out - explodes - and you need a place to stay. Please pay attention to not just your financial future but also your physical safety.</p>
<p>I want to thank all well wishes expressed on this thread. I don’t want to focus too much on me because it is not my intent. I am sharing my recent experience hoping it will help OP or anyone else who may be in a similar situation. </p>
<p>Maybe we should start a thread “How do you keep your marriage healthy when you are an empty nester?”</p>
<p>@sax wrote:
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<p>That’s true, but sometimes the escalation part can be physically dangerous. I just sent the OP a PM recommending the book, “The Verbally Abusive Relationship” by Patricia Evans – that book does have some very specific information about how to recognize the difference between a situation that can be salvaged by one person’s changing their own behavior and response, and the situation where one spouse is so intensely angry that it is likely to lead to violence. It is very important to know what signs to look for. The “he’s never hit me” part could change; anger is one thing, rage is another. </p>
<p>Another good book is “The Dance of Anger: A Woman’s Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships” by Harriet Lerner – I think that is a better fit for someone who wants to change patterns and stay within a relationship- but I do think it offers a lot of insight. </p>
<p>I think the OP will need to decide for herself whether this is a marriage that she wants to preserve, or whether it is really time to get out. The issue isn’t whether the husband can or will change - the issue is whether the wife can change the way she participates and responds to his behavior, and if she is comfortable with whatever changes she would make for her own well-being. </p>
<p>Good reminder, cal mom. You are absolutely right.</p>
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<p>This was advice my neighbor received from her attorney when her physician husband served her with divorce papers through the mail (complete shock to her). She did eventually return to work.</p>
<p>That probably depends on multiple factors, including the level of the husband’s income. </p>
<p>I think it’s important to sort out the difference between strategizing for the best outcome in a divorce settlement and strategizing for the best outcome in one’s personal life. The ex-wife who depends on an alimony payment to cover basic needs is an ex-wife who remains dependent financially on the ex-husband, and with financial dependence there is often emotional dependence. And it gives the ex spouse a huge amount of power if his being late with a payment is going to put the person in a serious financial bind. </p>
<p>Lawyers will look though the lens of the first goal – best financial outcome – but my life experience says that the second is the more important goal. I didn’t get spousal support from my ex but he did agree to pay a fairly generous amount for child support from the start-- but he often was months behind in child support. Legally he was obligated to pay support until my daughter turned 18…but at that time he was about a year behind in support payments and I never got that money. (D. is 26 now). </p>
<p>I spent about 2 years at the beginning feeling constantly angry and frustrated about the money – then I decided to rearrange my finances so that I wouldn’t be waiting on his payments. I made sure I could pay for the necessary stuff out of my own earnings–and used the sporadic checks from the ex to pay for the discretionary stuff. That shifted the emotional landscape — instead of my feeling constant resentment, it turned into a situation where I lived on a tight income punctuated with nice surprises a few times a year when the ex would catch up. He was self employed with a variable income, so his pattern wasn’t malicious – it just reflected his own financial reality. My own decision forced me take steps that were hard for me – like being a stronger advocate for myself to make sure that I was being paid for what I’m worth in my work – but that was a good thing. </p>
<p>The legal advice is very important because the OP should not do anything that would unwittingly cause her to lose anything she is entitled to – but she also needs to keep in mind that “winning” the legal battle is not always the best goal. She should determine for herself three things: A- what she absolutely needs, B- what she will be happy with, and C- what the lawyer says she can get. If C is better than A & B, then she might do better to aim for B rather than prolong the agony or escalate the fight by going with the lawyer’s advice – if C falls short of A or B, then of course she may need to adjust her expectations.</p>
<p>The problem is that she can get divorced on paper, but there is no such thing as divorce when there are kids. In my case there is now a grandson in the picture. Post-divorce there have been high school and college graduations to attend, a wedding, the death of my kid’s paternal grandfather, etc. It’s a whole lot better if everyone can get together on these occasions and treat one another with respect. If there is a prolonged court battle, the perceptions of the young adult kids might lead them to take sides – so a parent who focuses more on striving for a reasonable outcome than on getting everything she is legally entitled to may fare a lot better in the long run with the things that count.</p>
<p>Yes, do get the legal advice. But just keep in mind that when it comes to decisions like whether to move to a different home or get a job, the best legal advice is not necessarily the best life advice. The OP will need to make her own decision on the last part. </p>
<p>As an investment advisor who has had two clients get divorced in the last year, my only observation is that lawyers are scum! The financial side is actually pretty simple. Lawyers make it difficult and expensive to the benefit of no one but themselves. One lawyer called me and demanded monthly statements back to 1996(the year of marriage). I said forget it. She said “I will pay you for your time and for copies.” I said forget it. She simply wanted the value of inherited stock when the marriage happened. I had the info in 30 seconds. There were multiple instances of this kind of wasteful behavior that would simply run up a bill. I hung up on multiple lawyers after cussing them out. I would call my clients(which in both cases were both husband and wife) and give them the info they needed without involving the leeches. So my only advice is don’t let the lawyers scare you, don’t let them do all the work, and don’t make things more complicated than they really are. Everything can be split 50/50, including IRA’s. </p>
<p>Not all divorce lawyers are leeches, sure, there are some parasitic ones, but there are also some attirneys that are pretty clueless about financial aspects, especially stuff like stock options and stock grants! Having a good financial adviser who knows this stuff on your side is a must in such cases.</p>
<p>I would really encourage you to contact a lawyer to find out what the laws are in your state. It sounds like you’ve been a stay at home mom or worked intermittently or part time. Make sure you know what the financial implications will be. Will you get alimony? If so, for how long? Will your ex continue to pay college tuition? Will you be able to get a job that will support you and provide for yourself in retirement ? Remember, you don’t need to make this decision immediately. Make sure you have all the ducks in a row before you file for divorce. </p>
<p>I am going to surprise Calmom by saying that I agree with her last post. I would just add that legal advice and representation are probably necessary, but don’t let them talk you into a protracted legal battle where the final result is that the assets of the divorcing couple have now been transferred to the lawyers.</p>
<p>It appears OP comes from means because mention of Trust. I would opt for one time payment rather than alimony. to avoid “waiting for that check.” </p>
<p>Not all lawyers are leeches. I contacted one through referral. When she heard I only needed her to write the agreement and file, she said she didn’t do that kind of work. I contacted another lawyer, she told me the way we were doing was the best way - uncontested. </p>
<p>As I begin to tell more people of my situation, I am finding out there are a lot of couples in the same situation as us - just drifted away over time. I will say that there are a lot of happy endings to those other couples. A good male friend told me that he didn’t know his wife was so unhappy until she was getting ready to leave him in their drive way. He asked her to give him a chance. They went to therapy for a year and they are happier now than ever. This is just one anecdote, but I know of many others. I would encourage OP to exhaust all avenues before making that final decision. I think you owe it to yourself and to your family.</p>
<p>The parents of DS’s college roommate were divorced in his senior (or junior?) year. It still affected him deeply.</p>
<p>During the commencement, both parents came. It was odd that when they walked on the street after the commencement, the father and the mother walked at quite a distance from each other. The new spouse of the father did not come. But at one time, the father and his new wife came to campus to visit the son, who said afterwards that the atmosphere is weird.</p>
<p>DS’s roommate told his younger sister, also a college student, to ask for a brandnew car from her father. He said he is guilty for what happened and he would buy her one.</p>
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<p>Two of my good friends chose to go this way; they just split 50/50.</p>