<p>I just read more on this thread, and feel sorry for OP, oldfort and many in the situation. Wish you all well going forward.</p>
<p>The family of one of my colleagues (a wife) is OK currently. But I hope that they will be fine in the long run. Their challenge seems to be the financial one. It appears that the husband lost his job several years ago and could not find a job. So she and her husband moved back to her FIL/MIL’s house to save money. At one time, she complained that her husband suggested that they moved out to live in a trailer park and she was very upset about it because she does not want their D to grow up in that environment. Her inlaws seem to be fine but she complained once that they are more concerned about their retirement life (vacation) than the well-being of their granddaughter. They have not been married for many years. Hope they will overcome their challenge in the years to come.</p>
<p>Doesn’t sound like the OP will have a child support situation, but for those that do, my attorney advised me to sign up for the automatic wage garnishment our state offers from the very beginning. We both assumed my ex would pay, but she said this just saves a lot of hassle if there are late payments or problems. It was easy to do, and never a problem.</p>
<p>As I noted, my ex was and is self-employed. You can’t garnish wages from self-employed. You can get liens put on bank accounts, but that just tends to encourage the person to avoid depositing the funds into the accounts in the first place. </p>
<p>The automatic wage garnishment can cause pretty big problems in other areas as well when the person who is paying the support is working less than full time or changing jobs, or has multiple part-time jobs. So it’s not always the best solution. </p>
<p>I have been struggling with this question for a year, but know that it has been much, much longer that I have been unhappy in my marriage. My husband is a good man, and not a drinker, or abuser, etc. When we are by ourselves, he is OK and a reasonable companion.</p>
<p>But with other people, including our three children, he is extremely difficult, an interrupting didactic know-it-all who dominates every conversation, and also can be verbally aggressive (never physically) in many situations. It is embarrassing, has caused us to have very few couple friends (I have many girlfriends). I am exhausted dealing with him in public and with others and cannot imagine doing it for the rest of my life. </p>
<p>But I still don’t know whether I am better off with him or without him. I know financially I would be very much worse off, and we are getting close to retirement. I worry that it would affect my children, even though I know they sense the tension between us. I worry about growing old alone, but I worry about growing old with a man whom I do not love.</p>
<p>From talking to other people (I too have kept this a secret for a long, long time but have opened up to a few friends recently) it seems that these questions are not uncommon in the “empty nest” phase. So, I commiserate fully with Oldfort and the OP, since I understand her questions and concerns perfectly. I do not have the answers in any way.</p>
<p>But I am going to take the advice of the people on this thread and begin to develop a life of my own. For the past two decades I have put my own life on hold for my children, and do not even know what interests I have of my own anymore. But I need to do things, apart from my husband, and not just lunch with my friends (which I have always done). I think pushing to try new things alone is great advice, that I too will heed.</p>
<p>You spend a good part of every day fantasizing about what it would be like not to have to be around him and picture (over and over) the idea of going through a typical day and night without having to deal with him. When you can feel your stress level dropping just thinking about it…yeah.</p>
<p>I am finding a lot of marriages drifting into an area where this is becoming a consideration as my friends’ children leave home and start their own lives, and the spouses wind down their own careers and find they are together more, especially when retirement from jobs occur. It’s a huge adjustment. I remember how irritated I got with my DH when he worked from home for a stretch, as I was used to having him gone most of the time and he rarely was around the house during the day. Yes, it was an issue even in a marriage where no thoughts of leaving were there.</p>
<p>My one friend whose husband, also gone a lot during prime work years, has a very difficult time with him around. She always gave him full attention and he got to see snapshots of the good things in life at home since his job was what made the finances work, and he put in long hours and stress there. She took the brunt of the stress of most home things since she was the SAHM and she wanted him to enjoy the children and homelife when he was at home. Well, he’s retired now, and the kids are out of the house, and their kids were what their lives centered around. So they have just each other, and he’s not used to having to do much more that the three S’s around the house (ship, shower, shave) and he doesn’t have to shave any more. It’s been quite the adjustment. </p>
<p>But with some things like this, I think it often comes down to the point where you can’t take it any more. </p>
<p>Also, one of the shocks of divorce can be the shear amount of household management labor that used to be divided between the two partners that now becomes a solo job. If the other person used to handle the plumber, now it becomes your job. Etc. It’s good to steadily prepare for that so the ball doesn’t get dropped after the split. </p>
<p>I think a split has to be carefully thought out, planned and managed. The ideal situation is where the couple themselves can agree on a division of assets and avoid a hefty fee to a divorce attorney. The previous posters who commented on that aspect are correct- the lawyer’s livelihood depends on the conflict continuing so the hours can be logged and billed. Find common ground in that area and you will save yourself a lot of aggravation and $. </p>
<p>I also think women especially need to downsize so they are better able to manage a home on their own. I also have observed that my friends who moved into urban areas seemed to be better than those who stayed in the suburbs. More opportunity for working, dating and life in general is more active. Helps to stay involved and connected to other people. I also agree that many couples face this sort of “malaise” in their marriage as the children begin to leave home. It’s hard to determine if the situation rises to the level of one partner leaving and it takes some serious soul searching to find that answer. But if one arrives at the conclusion that leaving is best for them, then you have to find the courage to do so. Thats the hard part. I think many men, especially those who are the sole bread winners in the family, bet on the fact that you won’t find that courage. So they try less to fix whatever problems exist in the marriage.</p>
<p>It’s not always the attorney who wants to keep the conflict going. My ex Bil refused to take his attorney’s advice to settle. After 5 years of fighting any settlement proposal my sister offered, the Judge finally put her foot down and read him the riot act. She then proceeded to give my sister everything and then some. The house and all the equity in the house, alimony for 6 years even if she remarried during that time (which she did.) A very large lump sum payment ( over $1M) and he was required to take out a $1M life insurance policy with her as benificary. He also said in court, under oath that he would pay for all of his kids college so 100% of that was on him. </p>
<p>He got all their debt and had to pay my sister’s attorney fees, which after 5 years was around $500k. </p>
<p>The Judge told him if he appealed he would not only lose but she would give my sister enhanced earnings. </p>
<p>He so should have settled in the very beginning but his ego got in the way. </p>
<p><<<<
In your opening post you describe your husbands behavior escalating when you tried to change things. That’s a clear indication your attempt was noticed. He immediately escalated to shut you down. Classic and expected behavior. To break his pattern you need to continue your new behavior until he knows his temper tantrum is ineffective. Not for the faint of heart…and can get ugly. I think your conclusion it wasn’t working was premature.</p>
<p>Just remember, as you change, the unconscious desire of those around you will be to get things back to normal. You have to push through their attempts to get you back to “their” normal. Their frustration, anger, and sadness should subside as they get used to the “new” normal. But not always.
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<p>Yes, look up “extinction burst.” in your case, your husband will escalate his behaviors in hopes to shut you down, then after time, he will realize his escalations arent working, and then the burst. this really only works as long as there is no fear of physical abuse.</p>
<p><<<<
how does one know how one would be without him until they are there?
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<p>You have to be a realistic mature person to be able to realistically imagine the scenario ( a person could almost practice it for awhile). </p>
<p>I know a couple of immature spouses who were certain that they would be better off divorced (they didn’t have “bad” spouses, the immature spouses were having mid-life crises)…and they soon realized they weren’t. They were soon lonely, broke, having to do all the things their spouses used to do for them, etc. I think that as long as you can fairly assess the situation, you can make a determination.</p>
<p>As a lawyer, who has been divorced, this is the advice I would give a friend with kids out of the house:
Be able to support yourself, do not count on alimony etc. If the resources normally flow through your spouse contemplate what happens if he puts a strangle hold on money. Can you survive 3 months, 6 months, sometimes it goes on for much longer.<br>
Don’t keep the big house if you have the opportunity–especially for emotional reasons. It’s a time and money suck (taxes, rent, maintain, etc). Be aware, that it is harder for one person to refi now to buy the other out.<br>
Get a life. It can be freeing but lonely to be single, especially without kids. There is only so much HGTV you can watch. You’ve got to have things to do yourself and not depend on others (friends, kids, relatives) to do things with. Harder still if you are always waiting for money to come in.<br>
Settle if you can, via consent agreement, even if you take a little bit less. Being DONE is huge.<br>
High conflict divorces will put you in the ER.
Don’t bad mouth.
Don’t raid the bank accounts over overreach–it creates hostility and a bad atmosphere–see above. (take a reasonable amount but don’t drain them)
Be prepared that people will fight over the pets or dumb household property like a rug even if they won’t over cash.
Contemplate how your other relationships will change (with his family, for example).
Get counseling and don’t jump into your next relationship (bc it WILL seem amazing).</p>
<p>I’ve spent my adult life minimizing my own opinion, not expressing myself, going along to get along out of a desire to keep the peace. Fortunately H and I have been mostly in agreement but when we weren’t he took issue and would try to convince me and be annoyed I disagreed. Whereas I couldn’t care less if he agreed with me - he is welcome to his own opinion. After some recent struggles and seeing a therapist I have practiced being more direct about my feelings in all my relationships - not creating OR avoiding conflict, just addressing it. I’ve obviously been doing a great job because I was recently told I express my opinion too much. </p>
<p>^^^
Wanted to add that I have seen first hand what happens when one person changes behavior and makes the other person uncomfortable with a new dynamic. I understand why this happens but I had to make a change in my behavior to prevent completely losing myself. </p>
<p>Our marriage counselor saw me separately and asked why the heck I hadn’t left my husband yet, which was a pretty good wake up call. </p>
<p>He was required to see a marriage counselor in order to try to regain his professional authorization, since during ordered psych exams he had blamed every bad decision and situation in his life on me. He was told to seek counseling or a divorce. For example, he said that I forbid him from taking an interim position, when in reality I raised the issue of health insurance for us to consider, since that was not going to be provided. In my opinion, raising issues is opening problem solving discussions, not issuing edicts).</p>
<p>Of course, once the therapist pointed out to him that he was being absolutely ridiculous,and that he needed to claim some responsibility for his own life, and stop seeing everything in black and white without compromise or thought, he stopped going to the counselor.</p>
<p>Check out <a href=“http://www.marriagebuilders.com…they”>www.marriagebuilders.com…they</a> have a great discussion board. They also talk about meeting Emotional Needs…if you don’t meet them, your Love Bank gets too low and you fall out of love. </p>
<p>Also check out OCPD…Obsessive Compulsive Personality DIsorder. Google it and read the symptoms and see if it sounds like your DH. The resistance to change, the thinking he is the expert…</p>
<p>Like others said, the first step is Live the Life you Want. If you have not done things because of your DH, start doing them. Invite him if reasonable and then do it anyway. </p>
<p>Do consider your kids in college…maybe you have a longer time frame and wait until they graduate. But you can start planning and learning and living your life now. If your DH does has OCPD, you have been living his life.</p>
<p><<<<
with other people, including our three children, he is extremely difficult, an interrupting didactic know-it-all who dominates every conversation, and also can be verbally aggressive (never physically) in many situations. It is embarrassing, has caused us to have very few couple friends (I have many girlfriends). I am exhausted dealing with him in public and with others and cannot imagine doing it for the rest of my life.
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<p>@delta66
Have you talked to him about this? does he deny that he does this? would he mind if you recorded a conversation where he does this, so that he can later see (hear) what he is doing? (a recording may reveal that he doesnt allow others a fair time of the conversation and that he shuts others down or he monologues.</p>
<p>about 10 years ago, I saw a dr. phil episode where a husband had long denied doing the same thing. A recording was a real eye-opener</p>
<p>^ That’s a good idea. When MIL gets in a rage she says horrible stuff then later “forgets” she said it. I’m not sure whether she really forgets or not but taping someone like that might be a wake up call for them. </p>
<p>You can’t know if you 'll be better or worse off after you leave the spouse, and it’s often a mixed bag unless the decision is a true extreme, one way or the other. I 've know many women, men who have felt that way–wished they had not left, were relieved it’s over, but many swing back and forth on that. I know my one friend told me her heart just broke when her one son, who was always the vulnerable expressed his feelings about the separate visits over the holidays. It was pretty clear the kids are hurting, and when our kids hurt, we do too. But the fact of the matter is that most of us will be seeing our kids off on their own lives, and these episodes are only a small part of their lives, our lives. </p>