<p>^^Odds are he’d just get defensive and combative if presented with a recording.</p>
<p>My salvation has been my office, which is 5 minutes from home. When my husband goes on the verbal attack or something, I walk out and find something to do at work, and stay until he goes to bed. He’s learned that if he is pleasant, I stick around in the evening; if not, he’s on his own. That has actually worked, which is good, because we can’t afford to split until he gets another professional job.</p>
<p>OP here and I can’t tell you how comforted I am when I come on (when I’m alone and have a chance to do so) by all the comments. To those in a similar situation, my heart goes out to you and I wish you luck.</p>
<p>Just to add a few details, I feel confident my H does not have a diagnosable mental illness as has been suggested. He is a highly intelligent person who’s inflated ego leads him to believe he is virtually always right. (I understand that someone with a mental illness could fit that description but I am certain he does not.) I do believe that he has poor communication skills and that he sees any kind of disagreement, however small, almost like a competition in which one person wins and one loses. He’s highly competitive and, thus, he always want to ‘win’. Also, if someone asks his opinion and and then elects to do something else, he gets angry as in ‘why did they ask my opinion if they’re not going to take it?’. If I ever considered recording him (he can be inappropriate in public too, delta66) as someone suggested upthread, I can’t even imagine how livid he would be. On occasion, I have tried to mirror some of his actions, which, while not my style naturally, would make me feel that things are more ‘fair’ or equitable but that backfired. At a very high level, I’d like dh to treat me the way he expects to be treated. I live in a very unequitable home. To his defense, he says he just wants me to be ‘happy’ which, and I appreciate, means a tremendous amount of freedom in many ways. It’s the emotional side of my home life that is tough.</p>
<p>Things are particularly tense right now as he became angry with one of our kids yesterday when I wasn’t home and the altercation sounds like it was ugly. D vented to me when I got home and I tried to be supportive by active listening and encouraging her to talk to her dad. She responded that he never listens and never admits fault of any kind so what was the point? I asked dh if he was going to approach d (who had been in her room ever since the altercation and subsequent grounding) and he asked if she was ready to apologize. Not only was she not ready to apologize, she really needed to vent about why she felt her dad was unfair. Honestly, they’re both at fault but D will not be able to hear and take responsibility for her behavior (i.e. yelling through the house, not doing things right when she’s asked – we’re not talking about truly serious discipline issues) until she feels heard. Since I brought up the issue to dh, he has accused me of taking her side which I did not do but I didn’t take his side either. Not a great place to be.</p>
<p>Had a problem on the site where one checks their credit score so still need to do that and found another attorney who has a recording on and I don’t want to leave a message as I don’t want a call back, not knowing who will be around when the call comes in. Will keep working on both fronts.</p>
<p>Kids’ college funds are set and I have no concerns about that. Grad school, which dh and I have always said we’d cover, is another matter. I don’t believe he’d be vindictive to the kids; to me, it’s possible.</p>
<p>Again, thanks so much to everyone who’s posted. I feel like I have a support system, however anonymous, during this very challenging time.</p>
<p>Just reread my (long) post above and realize that my original intention had been to solicit feedback about how other people made this big decision (to stay or to leave) and also what I should be thinking about. I did not mean to get into the nitty gritty of our arguments or, really, to bash dh. So, getting back to the more practical: I live in a community property state and our assets are virtually all in a trust. Perhaps naively, it’s hard for me to understand why I need copies of the last 10 years of our tax returns, copies of all of our accounts, etc. Kids are all in college or out and funds for undergraduate are set and it is not possible for dh to disrupt them (not that I think he would). Can someone help me understand what I need to get in order and why? I do understand that I either could be entitled to alimony or not; if so, how much, etc…that seems to me to be the real open issue. I’m sure I’m sounding naive…</p>
<p>I think IRL try to find one person who you could trust to be your coach through this. On this thread, you see there are a lot of different views and we don’t know you at all. When it gets down to the wire, you will need someone to help you through it. For me, it was my brother, even though he was thousands of miles away. He listened to me and he kept me focused. When I waffled and felt lost, he kept me on track with what was important. I was surprised, as a man, he had the patience of listening to me. He was very practical and didn’t let my emotion get in the way when it came to the final agreement. I have a friend who went through this last year, she said it was her sister who was there during her darkest moment. </p>
<p>OP - just saw your post. You need to consult a lawyer in your state to get your questions answered. In my state, alimony and children support are calculated based on a certain formula. Your situation is different than most people’s situation because of the trust.</p>
<p>Question. Does he think he is right or is he right most of the time? There is a big difference. Someone who is smart that is actually right a great deal of the time would rightfully feel that they were disrespected if people seek their advice and then do not follow it.</p>
<p>Ultimately, you are not doing the right thing if you are considering a major change like this and not discussing it with him. He is going along doing what he has always done and you are figuring out how to leave to the point that you are checking with lawyers?</p>
<p>OP, I’ll try to answer your original question–how did I make the decision? It took a while! What helped me most was journaling. I found ( and still find) that thinking about stressful or difficult subjects can be hard–the thoughts tend to spiral or slip away. Writing things down allowed me to reread the important thoughts multiple times. I also spoke with a therapist and had a couple of close confidants that I ran things by. I was also in couples therapy and trying to be very explicit about how my needs were not being met Eventually it became clear to me that it was necessary for my happiness and well being for my marriage to end. </p>
<p>Sounds simple. Took another 6 months for him to move out, toughest 6 months of my life. Another 18 months before divorce was finalized. </p>
<p>I would be happy to PM you if there are specific details you would like to discuss. </p>
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<p>Completely disagree. She has to look after herself now in case this does lead to divorce. She has asked him MANY times over the years to go to marriage counseling, and not only has he said no, but he has said it would be his worst kind of hell.</p>
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<p>If there is any source of funds that is not community property it will need to be traced – the most common situation is an inheritance but it could also be from assets that either you or he had prior to marriage. </p>
<p>The reason you need copies of all the accounts is that you need to know the exact value of all the property. You can’t just think, “It’s all in trust, what does it matter?” – you have to know how much there is.</p>
<p>As you haven’t said otherwise, I’m assuming that you have a revocable trust that allows both you and h. to make withdrawals and move money around without the other’s permission. That’s common in California and what I have in my own name - it’s really a paper trust that is created to avoid probate, but has a lot of flexibility. </p>
<p>Divorce means all assets are split-- at least in theory it’s a 50/50 split. You can’t know how to split it unless you know exactly what is there. And you want to know what is there now, not what is left in the accounts 6 months or a year after separation. </p>
<p>As to telling the H – I think that the OP should tell her husband --but only after she already has figured out all the contingencies and taken steps to protect herself. She does not know what his reaction will be - she should assume the worst in that respect as well. He has an income, she doesn’t- that means that if the trust assets were shut down so that neither party could withdraw money from the accounts, he would still have a paycheck that he could deposit into a separate bank account he sets up for himself – and it would be a very “reasonable” position for him to take as a way of “preserving” the assets pending the divorce. From there he would benefit by dragging out the process as long as possible. </p>
<p>The solution is that there is an interim order for support payments that require the husband to pay OP the money she needs to live on her own - but that is something she will probably need a lawyer to get.</p>
<p>When one of the spouses owns a business, a division of the assets can get very tricky. If one spouse founded a business in which the other spouse had no interest nor spent any time helping to run it, it can be very difficult to divide it or assess its value for purposes of property division. </p>
<p>It is usually extremely disruptive to the business or can be in violation of various legal agreements with partners and/or lenders to change the ownership of the business. In addition, a spouse will be extremely hesitant to give up half of a business he/she spent a lifetime of blood, sweat and tears building. The other spouse will be egged on by the lawyers to claim an ownership interest in the business, thus engendering a protracted legal dispute. The alternative is to assess the value of the business through an appraisal and to compensate the non-owner with a financial settlement. The problem is that it can be very difficult to appraise a small business with which both parties will be satisfied.</p>
<p>I also agree that it is wise not to tell him until you make your decision and have met with a lawyer or an arbitrator. It just gives him more things to blow up about, or to throw in your face if you ultimately decide to stay.</p>
<p>Just for the heck of it read a bit on living with a narcissist. Maybe it fits. It might help you in dealing with your husband.</p>
<p><a href=“Married to a Narcissist Husband? Proceed with Caution!”>http://thenarcissisticlife.com/married-to-a-narcissistic-husband-proceed-with-caution/</a></p>
<p>Has he discussed his anger, etc. with his Dr? I would hesitate to divorce before he tried medication to address irritability, anxiety, depression, whatever. Of course, if he refuses, then at least you tried.</p>
<p>My folks divorced when we were adults, and because one wanted it and one didn’t it was a hellish few years for us kids. And once the divorce was final they were mutually exclusive people, which was a constant strain on us. You have to balance that strain against the stress you have now.</p>
<p>My best wishes to those going through these tough situations. Hugs.</p>
<p>In the alternative, my kids thought for the most part our divorce was a good thing (they KNEW it was a good thing for me). They don’t see a lot of their dad now – not estranged, just not particularly close. His loss…</p>
<p>I know you’re getting advice to hire an attorney and to present him with legal orders before discussing your wish of getting a divorce. Unlike some others, I think this could be a mistake. If you want to antagonize him by ambushing him with legal injunctions before he is even aware you are pursuing a divorce, I think this would accomplish that goal. It would be far more likely that this type of action would get a pugnacious response and would increase the chances of a nasty fight. I don’t know your husband, but most people would at least like to have a conversation about something like this before dealing with lawyers. It would be much better and probably cost much less if the two of you could discuss it amicably and do this divorce cooperatively. It may not be possible with your husband, but it is certainly the preferable way of doing it.</p>
<p>Goldenpooch, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the OP “ambush him with legal injunctions before he is even aware you are pursuing a divorce.” I’m sure most would suggest that the OP does have a discussion with her husband about wanting a divorce before sharing legal matters with him. BUT people are rightfully suggesting that before she puts this plan into place with her spouse, that she is READY and has had legal advice and has made a decision and plan with some of that first before discussing it with her spouse. Her spouse is entitled to such a discussion. It doesn’t mean the OP shouldn’t do some background preparation first. </p>
<p>She doesn’t have to tell him she has seen an attorney. Sounds like he is likely to be pugnacious no matter how she brings it up, though. But it is very different to meet with an attorney and start getting a feeling for some options than it is to serve divorce papers without discussion.</p>
<p>OP, do you think your H might suspect you are thinking about a divorce? Do you think he might agree that it could be the best thing for both of you? Just thinking that it might not be as unpleasant as you are imagining if he is on the same page. He might be unhappy as well and more receptive to the idea of a divorce once the issue is on the table.</p>
<p>Please, have your lawyer lined up, and your ducks in a row. My former fiancé, a judge of lowest order, was still able to intimidate my first attorney. </p>