<p>" wonder how SAHMs who divorce obtain “fairness” that considers their lost opportunities for career building and everything that goes with it, like retirement savings, SS taxes, etc. Do they get greater settlement b/c they need to train, enter a career at an older age, etc.? How can a SAHM who sacrificed her career be made “whole” in a divorce settlement? (I understand the biases within this question. Not looking to start a fight. Rather, hoping to learn about what seems to be a real issue middle-aged SAHMs face when divorcing.)"</p>
<p>Part of this may be differences in cultural socialization. Nonetheless, that’s still no excuse for the anger/hostility OP is describing.</p>
<p>This is where my practice would substantially depart from OP’s H. </p>
<p>While I wouldn’t offer to help and ask the person who has shown a repeated pattern of not following advice and then coming back to complain of the negative consequences, I wouldn’t be so agitated to the point of being yellingly angry. I would just state it in a calm and matter-of-fact way. </p>
<p>If I did…or see anyone else lost their cool to the point of yelling*, my self-respect or respect for the person who did that would take a serious nose-dive as in my view, that shows an appalling lack of emotional self-control and maturity one should expect of anyone over 18. </p>
<p>IMO, being calm and cool as a cucumber when everything’s is SNAFU is the behavioral model I aspire to…especially in group situations. </p>
<ul>
<li>Unless it is to be heard above the loud din.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>I completely understand this issue as I have experienced this. My H had a seriously hard time understanding “age appropriate behavior” in our kids, and would try to punish (too harshly in many/most people’s opinions) for “sins” that werent really sins, they were just “being young kids” (tired, cranky after missing naps or being dragged around all day with errands). I would have to intervene and explain to H, and he would conclude that I was “taking the child’s side,” which is typically a big no-no in parenting. I finally dragged his tush to a therapist who after hearing details told me to continue to intervene and he gave my H a book on proper disciplining, etc. </p>
<p>Cobrat, it is complicated to be married. In some respects, especially when we talk of the downs, any 2nd hand “observation” isn’t quite the same as the sharing from those who have really experienced this. </p>
<p>Part of the problem may be the differences between a typically female and typically male communication style. Women tend to be sharers while men tend to be problem-solvers (a gross generalization but it one I think holds true in the majority of cases.) If a woman says, “My co-worker was being such a pain today. She…” a typically female response might be, “What a jerk! Is she always like that?”, whereas a typical male response might be, “This is how I would advise handling it if it happens again…” A man who thinks he’s being asked for advice may be annoyed when his counsel isn’t followed. A woman who just wanted to vent may be annoyed that the man is telling her what to do when she didn’t ask for advice. Neither is in the wrong. They’re just approaching the problem from different standpoints.</p>
<p>@dyiu13 – I think that unless there are substantial accumulated assets, there really is no way that the SAHM is fully protected in the event of a divorce. Yes the courts can take a lot of factors into consideration – but in the end the SAHM has reduced earning capacity and there is no guarantee that the H will continue to earn whatever salary or business income is the basis of an award of alimony. Sometimes the breadwinner will also go through post-divorce changes – the emotions that come from the breakup and lifestyle changes, perhaps entering new relationships - also sometimes impact the choices they make on the job. </p>
<p>@hardtoknow – here’s a question for you that goes back to your original how-you-know question: How will you feel post-separation if and when your H. gets a new relationship? In the almost 20 years since I split from my H., nothing ever made me happier than when my H. was dating and seriously considering remarriage- so I think that’s a good sign that it was right to split. I never felt jealous, I would just have thoughts like, “I wonder how she puts up with him.” So if you find yourself fantasizing that your husband meets some other woman and announces that he is leaving you – and that is a good fantasy – that’s a pretty good sign that you are ready to leave. </p>
<p>Venting and complaining in the manner described as “typically female communicative style” as a boy among male peers and fathers in my old NYC neighborhood would not only cause most boys and fathers to consider one to be “whiny”, questions about whether they “have better things to think about” and “gossipy”. It is also likely to encourage the bullies among them to physically attack and assault the perceived offender until he learns to cease such behavior in that setting. </p>
<p>Granted, this is admittedly extreme example. However, I have found colleagues…especially male colleagues who vented or otherwise communicated in what you described as the “typical female communicative style” tend to lose respect and perceptions as intelligent effective colleagues/employees not only in the eyes of most team members regardless of gender, but also by most supervisors. </p>
<p>One older male college classmate has encountered much difficulties in academia and in trying to maintain employment because he tends to be a venter to the point it’s off-putting to nearly everyone. </p>
<p>Even though I’m much more patient than his past Profs/supervisors, even I have lost patience with him at times when I asked him “What’s the/get to the point”* or when he gets upset with me offering suggestions or asking him variants of “So what are you going to do about it/How do you plan on solving this issue?” </p>
<ul>
<li>Tends to go off on extremely long divergent tangents.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>Oh, yes, extremely long divergent tangents are so annoying!</p>
<p>Cobrat - who CARES how “men who communicate in typical female communicative style” are regarded by people in your old NYC neighborhood? This isn’t about you. This is about helping the OP.</p>
<p>I was confirming Sue22’s point and adding some observations as a male and how the venting in what she described as a typical female communicative style tends to not go over very well in many male-dominated settings…or negative perceptions of males who exhibit such traits. </p>
<p>OP, I waited a few months for the attorney i ended up with to be available to take my divorce case. It was very well worth waiting. She was someone whose name I had gotten from a couple of other friends who had been through it, and she was great. So don’t be afraid to wait if you identify an attorney you want to work with. It stretched the process out by a few months, including living under the same roof with him, but was still worth it.</p>
<p>I just deleted what I posted because this is not just about male/female way of communication, and this is certainly not another thread for cobrat to talk more about his relatives and very extended circle of friends. This thread touches upon a lot of us very long term relationship. It is a delicate and difficult situation.</p>
<p>cobrat - if you have any sensitivity, please leave this thread.</p>
<p>I never said there were no males who are gossipy or vent as much as females. </p>
<p>However, from what I’ve observed, especially in work settings, such males tend not to be taken seriously or respected professionally by colleagues and supervisors…regardless of gender.</p>
<p>It is also one commonly discussed topic when it comes to communication difficulties among heterosexual dating or married couples. </p>
<p>First, I don’t have an agenda because I have a great marriage. Second, why is it all the female posters who have divorced always blame the guy for all their problems? It takes two to tango, in case you’ve forgotten.</p>
<p>Goldenpooch - I don’t see where OP is blaming her husband for their problem. She said their communication styles are different. He is not fulfilling her needs and he is not making her feel good about herself. There is a mismatch. When it comes to relationship, it is not about who is right or wrong, it is more about what we like to say on CC, “fit.” Sometimes the person you married 30 years ago is a different person 30 years later.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if your ex was so wonderful, would you have left him/her? Just because you can’t stand your ex any more, it doesn’t make him/her a bad person. The flip side is true too.</p>
<p>I know a few divorced couples who are still pretty good friends. Spend holidays and children’s birthdays together and get along well. So every situation is different. OTOH if a spouse has opened the gates of hell during the divorce then I can certainly understand the hatred and ill will. I know a few of those too. But all in all I will say that those of my friends who went through the process are happier now than they were when they were married. Some of them are doing with less than they had when they were married but seem happy to have made that tradeoff. </p>
<p>@Goldenpooch, I think we have a Mars-vs-Venus issue here. Can you imagine a husband unhappy with his marriage posting to the Parent Cafe? I can’t.</p>