How much time do you spend with your elderly parents?

Parent Cafe
101

<p>Just curious when you say, that you will be writing the checks to your sister’s kids. Are you the executor (I may have missed that piece of information earlier)? If not, you will have nothing to do with the writing of checks. If you are the executor (or co-executor), then it makes an even stronger argument that you should be aware of the finances. </p>

<p>From your description, though, it sounds like your brother is the one in charge of the finances, so he would most likely be writing the checks (unless there’s something else we aren’t aware of). </p>

<p>Who is your father’s HCPOA? Often, people will designate two different people for HCPOA and POA or executor.</p>

102

<p>co executor</p>

<p>I was initially the executor but my brother had asked my father to change that a few years back. I was also his health care proxy and that too was changed at my brothers request.</p>

103

<p>My sisters kids are children of an alcoholic father. One has followed in his pathe and the other two are on their way.</p>

104

<p>I suspect there are stories behind why these assignments were changed with everything ending up with your brother in control of pretty much everything. Doesn’t matter what the story is, as long as you put your foot down now. Even if you did something to warrant the changes (which I’m not saying you did), they have no right to abuse your kindness and loyalty at this point.</p>

<p>We have a friend here in town, whose family lives about 800 miles from here. From what our friend has told us, his siblings have been very irresponsible with money and are not trustworthy, aware kinds of people. A few years ago, when our friend made his semi-annual visit to his father (his mother died a few years back), he and his father went to the attorney’s office and changed the will so that our friend is now executor/HCPOA, etc. However, both the father and our friend decided not to tell the rest of friend’s siblings about it, only knowing that they would raise hell about it and try to manipulate things for their benefit.</p>

<p>I’ve often wondered what it will be like when that father dies, and the siblings find out, after all, that they do not hold the purse strings. I do believe our friend is the only one who has attended college, and now has his MBA, so he is more qualified to keep track of assets, investments, etc.</p>

105

<p>M3- If all your father’s bank accounts are held in joint tenancy with your brother then on your father’s death, all the money in those accounts will automatically belong to your brother. The money would not go through the estate. You would not be entitled to any portion of it. The legal term is ‘joint tenancy with right of survivorship’. It means the survivor takes it all. </p>

<p>You need to talk to your brother about those accounts.</p>

106

<p>One other way to look at your current situation with your brother: maybe he has no ill intentions. Maybe he’s just used to doing things on his own without conversations and explanations. My DH is not a chatty one, but he isn’t malicious either. Are you certain that your brother had another idea about your dad’s wealth than to simply use it for investments and forget about them? People have different views of what money’s purpose is. Yours may be immediate, to ease the day-to-day burden. Your brother and your father may think differently.</p>

107

<p>Despite how “disgusting” you think your nieces are, they may very well get some of the money at your father’s death and that is really something that you have no control over. It really seems to be a different issue and is up to your father who he leaves any money to. I would imagine you would be very concerned if any of your own children were left out? You Do have control over how much caregiving you provide.</p>

108

<p>^^^
My father has every right to include anyone he wants in his will. I have trouble understanding why he would leave anything to such ignorant and selfish adults. I will feel terrible seeing them get one penny, but they will get what is written in the estate.</p>

109

<p>TatinG What happens if there are mutual funds and stocks in both their names? Will these too be viewed in the same way. There was an mutual fund that was recently changed to include my brother, would that also be excluded from the estate?</p>

110

<p>momma-three, I would really recommend that you pursue these questions with an attorney in your state who is familiar with wills & estates. It’s not a good idea to rely on legal advice gained on an anonymous online forum, particularly in a situation where accurate information is essential.</p>

111

<p>Agree with alwaysamom. There are various forms of joint tenancy. And state laws differ. You should get advice from an attorney who specializes in estates. </p>

<p>But a joint account can be withdrawn by either of the joint owners. Both are considered to own all of it.</p>

112

<p>I was not seeking advice regarding the trust but the poster mentioned something of interest. The information regarding my dads accounts will be addressed with my brother in regard to my fathers care. As I said earlier this money was obviously saved for his care and the time has come to use it for that purpose. I never expected there to be anything left other than the house when my father is not longer here. The bank accounts, stocks, and other accounts should be an open book to those of us caring for him so that we can make informed decisions regarding his care. This money should not be hoarded for inheritance and I sincerely hope that it is used now rather than given away later. </p>

<p>I am in a difficult position to execute a will that was made within two months of my sisters passing. My dad unfortuntely made his estate an irrevocable trust and his money will support the local liquor stores in his grandchildrens towns. I wish that money could have gone to the great grand children in the hopes that it would pay for some college. It is really a shame that they will benefit and it is evident that their own children will suffer from the lifestyles they have chosen. I also know that this is not my business and it was my fathers choice but he made these decisions in grief and not with a clear thinking of the future. It bothers me so much because my sister was never offered help by my dad when she was alive and yet her adult kids will benefit again, after they blew through the estate of their own parents.</p>

<p>My dad had one fault and that was his lack of generousity with money or things. He had an opportunity to help my sister but chose not too. When her husband died he did not have any excuse to hold back and my sister always felt bad that her own dad never offered. My sister became very ill at the age of 48 and because of money she continued to work long past the time that any of her doctors could believe. Dad could have been such a help to her as he could be a help to me by using this money for his care. It is his expectation that my brother and I care for all of his needs, with no thought to the impact it has on his two children. That is why I say the selfish streak that he had as a young man has become intensified with age. My brother has always referred to him as tight but this goes beyond being tight.</p>

113

<p>I just want to jump in again to say that washing floors, laundry, cooking etc., do not equate with love. If your father believes that they do, he is wrong. The chores can be hired out to someone who does this for a living. You should come to visit, to eat a meal together which was cooked by someone else, to go to the park etc. These are things that you do with someone you love. IF he had no assets, then there might be a different need, but as long as he has assets, do not be the maid. </p>

<p>I think your Dad’s legal affairs are unclear as you describe, and if this is how you understand them, you probably should get legal clarification. An irrevocable trust can have many kinds of assets, but accounts with just your Dad’s name or Dad and brother, would sound like they are not in the trust. An account for the trust would generally be titled trust under agreement dated XYZ. As others have said, a lawyer in your state who is familiar with estates trusts should be consulted.</p>

<p>When I was in law school, at the very beginning I met a fellow student whose father had just passed away. He said of himself, I want to leave zero gross estate. I also think that it is great to give away money while you are alive, and spend what you need for your old age, but to hoard money for an inheritance is misguided. JMHO.</p>

114

<p>I am horrified to learn that I discovered more accounts with my brother listed as a joint co-owner. I had a discussion with my brother regarding hiring someone to come in and assist my dad for a few hours everyday. He made it clear that he did not think it was reasonable to do so, and that our dad does not want that. After the conversation with my brother I learned that there are several accounts totaling close to half a million dollars in joint with my father. </p>

<p>This is such a slap in the face and I am disgusted. I don’t even know what to say to my brother at this point and I can’t believe my father has done this. These accounts have been changed within the past six months. Other than having a talk with my brother how do I proceed with this information. I am sad to learn that my father has decided to cause this level of disharmony between his two children. Please keep in mind that I snooped in files, and learned this. I will be accussed of doing something that I had no business doing and my brother will make me feel that I did something awful. </p>

<p>I now believe that because my father’s house was put into our name and is in the trust he is aware of the capital gains that the estate will incure. I am now synical that he
will probably bow out of the house making it appear that he does not need to inherit money. This is the same person that sent lettersto the members of the trust letting so all know that he wants to be reimbursed for the rent that he had paid for my fathers apartment before he allowed the house to be rented. The house sat empty for almost two years. My brother has made himself sound like the big protector of my dad and yet now when true care is needed he wont admit that there is plenty of money,albeit in his name, to care for dad. This is the multi-million dollar brother who wants for nothing. If there is a lesson in all of this I have learned that those who seem most pure of heart may still have their motives. I guess my instincts were correct but how I wish they were’nt.</p>

115

<p>Hi momma-three. What a saga! I can’t even imagine how frustrated you must be!</p>

<p>Is there any chance that your brother doesn’t know about these joint accounts? My mom used to add my name to her accounts without telling me. </p>

<p>When you have a talk with your brother, and he tells you there isn’t enough money to hire caregivers, you can tell him that in fact there IS money. <innocent voice=“” mode=“”> “Brother, guess what I discovered? It turns out that dad has a lot more money that you and I thought! And gee, isn’t that convenient that your name is on the accounts, so you can get the money out now!”</innocent></p>

<p>And if you’re up to it, you can say that you’re going to ask your father add your name to the accounts too, so if your brother is unavailable to pay for something, you can do it.</p>

116

<p>What a blow! Definitely take some time to absorb this awful news. I am sorry that you are in this situation, but it is better to know now than when it is too late. It does happen in all types of homes, and to all kinds of people, but it is such a sad thing. </p>

<p>Your brother is going to pluck your violin strings; he knows what makes you feel guilty. And look, if he doesn’t pay for help, there’s more in it for him! Truthfully, I don’t think you can trust him at all from here on out. However, your dad trusts him implicitly, which is going to be a big issue. Hire an attorney to look at everything that has been done with regard to accounts and titles. Don’t let it slip that you know about the accounts until you have all the information. You need to think out your strategy carefully, as your brother could easily convince your dad that this is “all your fault” and make the last years of your dad’s life very unpleasant.</p>

117

<p>It is a saga and I am so angry that for the first time today I could not even go to my dads. I am fuming mad, and the anger is like nothing I have ever known. It is obvious that my brother knows about the accounts because the bank accounts he would have had to sign a joint card to be added. He absolutely knows and I just don’t even know how to maintain my cool when he comes across as so self righteous and pure of heart. He is none of those things and that is clear. I also found college accounts for my brothers children when my four children never received a penny. My brothers kids have trust funds set up by my brother and his wife for his children that pay out until they are age 45. The kids have trust that are valued at several million dollars each. I guess my brother feels he is getting reimbursed for the trips to the doctor that he makes with my dad at his billable hourly rate from his lucrative job. I will never be able to look at my brother in the same light after seeing this. There is just no excuse that he could come up with that would justify what he has done.</p>

<p>We are leaving now for my sons graduation. I am so proud of him and I need to put this behind for the next few days. We were having a family party next weekend and I just don’t know how to handle dealing with both my dad and my brother at this party. I guess for my kids I will be cordial.</p>

<p>I never understood how families fought when parents passed away. I always thought that it was greed from all the parties involved. That is not the case, and now I know it. It is the hurt feelings that cause this type of thing.</p>

118

<p>Here’s a big hug for you, and a vote of confidence that you are going to get through this. Go ahead and have “the flu” for a few days, and leave the situation alone. Your brother is away for a time this summer, right? Keep that in mind as an opportunity to take action, but put the situation out of your mind for a short time and enjoy your child’s shining moment.</p>

119

<p>It COULD be possible that your brother knows he is on the accounts, but does not know the account values- probably not the case, but possible.</p>

<p>Only you know all the dynamics here and who is best to have conversations with, but maybe telling your Dad the time has come for a hired helper, no guilty reasons why you cannot, just that the time has come. Then ask your Dad if the two of you can take a look at his accounts and figure out if that is possible.</p>

<p>If I have read the thread correctly you are co-executor and your brother is a fairly new addition to both executorship and to the accounts? So, perhaps you should also be on those accounts? When my parents re-organised a few years ago they put me on some accounts and I also asked that one of my siblings be on the accounts too. Since my Dad died and things have changed, I have focused my energy more on just taking care of paying Mom’s bills, doing tax stuff, etc. </p>

<p>I think they are taking advantage of you by playing the “poor dad” card, but in your Dad’s defense, I know my parents are soooo frugal, because that is the way they were raised and they are afraid to spend any of that savings, it would make them feel vulnerable. Perhaps your Dad just needs a reality check? Or he simply thinks you should do this out of love?? I say it is time to stand up for yourself since they are not respecting you! Probably smart not to do it until your anger is less overwhelming, but the time has come.</p>

120

<p>Well M-3 enjoy the graduation. (I would be very mad too. )</p>

<p>My mom did not have too much money when she passed away, but I can tell you that up until a month before she died, I was to be her executor. Then my brother said, she could not find the will, and in the hospital he had it redone (I was not there), and he became the executor. Since I am by training a lawyer (and I practiced for a number of years) you would think it would have made more sense (he is not a lawyer but he is older). However, I did not find out until after she died, and I kept my mouth shut. Her joint bank account with him - to pay for her funeral, who knows where that was, but it was not there for the funeral. I paid for it, however, I did get reimbursed months later from the estate. It was in the high 4 figures too. Neither Bro nor sis chipped in a bit to make it easier. My H was livid. I think my sister was on a joint account, but somehow my brother adjusted the accounting of the estate to give her less of everything else. He also adjusted my share downward to account for an insurance policy that was left to my daughter (the only grandchild). I did not say a word. It was totally wrong legally. He did “give” us all her jewelry (me and sis), but years ago mom had given him a diamond ring of hers for his wife (no jewelry of her was given inter vivos to us girls). I will tell you that to this day, my Brother goes around with an injured air as if I embezzled funds from him, which I can assure you that I never did. When I last called him, he refused to speak to me, which was out of the blue to me, since I had not spoken to him or seen him in months, and before that he had been pleasant. Bipolar perhaps, but sorry to digress.</p>

<p>I would not presume to tell you what to do for yourself (other than quitting as maid - whether dad is happy or not - let your brother be the maid if no one else is available.) I can not understand why a dad would have college funds for the children of a millionaire, and none for the less well off child’s kids. These kinds of things are so messy and upsetting, and I am sorry that you are going through this, in addition to your father’s illness. I would think it is tempting to confront your brother, but it is likely to lead to the end of your good relations. Really maybe they were just an illusion anyway, but if that kind of thing is important (communication, superficial courtesies) then think LONG and hard before confronting him, as it is likely to blow up badly.</p>

<p>A good friend of ours has a brother who is unmarried and with no kids, and when their mom died, he knew that she was leaving all to the brother, because he had less than our friend who is successful (and has 3 kids.) This hurt our friend, but he soldiered on. </p>

<p>As I said before, cooking and cleaning is not love, and neither is money, so don’t let yourself be sick about money. Yes it is good to have money, but in the end, unless you have none it is not usually the limiting factor in your life. </p>

<p>I have to say that in a situation like this a good personal attorney can be very helpful. Someone who has been through this with other families a lot, and really knows people can help you find clarity. Also, it is part of their job to interface for you in a difficult situation, and it will be less stressful to you personally. A good lawyer knows these stories already and knows how to handle them. You won’t have a big thing blow up right in your face, and having it defused is better.</p>