@1wife1kid I strongly disagree that AoPS is not math and is tricks for competition. Seriously, as the parent of student who used AoPS as their only math curriculum for intermediate alg, pre-cal, and cal, I would state it is a mischaracterization of AoPS.
AoPS offers some competition math, but they also offer core math subjects which require complete mastery of the concepts in order to solve. They must understand the theory to write their proofs. Fwiw, our son is a double math and physics major who is incredibly strong in math. Thank you AoPS for that excellent math foundation!
I would agree you can’t make someone love something which is what I hope you meant. You can certainly awaken a new love. People discover new passions all the time. You can’t know until you are introduced to something.
My experience- at about that age I declared I was only going to take the minimum math and science in HS. Fast forward to senior year, took all offered math and science (pre AP courses era). I told my economics teacher that suggested I major in that field that I was going to major in Chemistry. Got my Honors BA (met both BA and BS requirements) in Chemistry, chose medicine and went on from there. I never liked Physics- still don’t. Nor am I brilliant at or super interested in math (everything is relative- compare myself to those Honors math people). H and son like both- we have the books on the shelf to prove it.
In elementary school I did well in all academic subjects, did well in HS as well. But by then I found my interests. Likewise my son could have chosen any field based on ability but chose what interested him (math plus computer science). Not surprised given his parents fields, but both do well in the nonSTEM fields so he could have gone in any academic direction. We know plenty of physicians whose kids have gone nonscience routes as well.
This is just my personal experience. Do not worry/try to steer your D to STEM fields. She will have favorites and having math and analytical abilities will serve her well no matter which field grabs her interest.
It will be interesting for you to follow her path in through HS, then college. Then beyond. There is no reason a person must do what they are best at. Interest plays an important role. Sometimes choosing a field because it is more challenging works.
My recommendation is that she signs up for enough math and science classes in HS to be able to get admitted to any college. Perhaps she will discover she likes something.
There is actually a lot of research on your question. They have found that there is a number of things that can be done to have girls more involved in math. The most important thing is that parents take an active involvement in the math learning process. Surprisingly it is more important for the dad than the mom. Research has shown that a dad actively involved in his daughters math education can do wonders.
I am not a big fan of competitive math. Cathy Oneil has a famous blog called “Math Contests kind of suck” Terence Tao and other famous mathematicians have made comments in the blog. You should look at it. Boys over competitiveness in these contests tend to discourage many girls from the process.
An additional thing that helps is if you can find female role models that can help with the process. Is there a female teacher that can be encouraging to your daughter? This can help a lot.
@VickiSoCal, she is used to it - she was the only white girl in class for 5 years and now there are 2-3 white kids per class. The problem is to find some girls who are interested in math. Most of her friends are barely getting through the regular course and those who are at her level are mostly pushed by their parents through Kumon and such.
I agree that competitive math is not for everyone but if the kid likes it, this is a whole world which can provide a lot of useful knowledge and experiences, so it doesn’t hurt to try.
And again, we don’t try to make her choose STEM or anything else for that matter. I am pretty sure that’s impossible to do - no one can command what other person likes or not. However, to choose you need to know what you are choosing from and for that some knowledge is required. We are trying to build that knowledge in different areas - helping her find more interesting books, watching a historical documentary or discussing some economics or … finding some interesting math problems and science projects. Then, in HS, she can eventually find what she really likes (that’s what we hope for
I wanted to agree with others who say that the math or science-related ECs are not necessary. My daughter and a good friend love math and science and twitter and following some young “famous” musicians on Youtube. They also do sports after school. No interest in the school math club.
I would even generalize and say that no ECs are necessary unless the kid enjoys them. Are sports ECs necessary if your S or D hates sports (I would still make sure they are active but EC?) ?
My S was never in math club and stubbornly refused all math activities (he was in robotics club, though) until his senior year. Then he started his problem solving quest and simply replaced his reading with math proofs (I cannot say that we were happy!)
I also disagree about AoPS math. I have been working through the book series myself for a couple of years, and it has given me a much stronger understanding of the fundamentals of math than any HS or college course I ever had previously.
It was uncomfortable for her. She’s very fair, blonde, blue eyed, and she got comments implying she didn’t belong there. Or that she was “pretty smart” “for a white girl”
@collegedad13 I disagree. Their textbooks and classes are focused on mastering the theory behind concepts. For kids who don’t need repetition and who crave the theory behind concepts, AoPS is a blessing. For kids who want direct instruction demonstrating what to do and why, AoPS is not enough.
My son makes sure he understands how to derive every concept he learns. A gift from AoPS. He can take what he knows and apply it to “real world math issues.” Fwiw, he was not a math competition kid. He didn’t enjoy it at all. But he was a 10yr old taking his first alg class. He needed more from his math classes than a typical textbook. AoPS engaged him and challenged him.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek over half their classes are focused towards competitions.
The Geometry book states as follows “Learn the fundamentals of geometry from former USA Mathematical Olympiad winner Richard Rusczyk”
By their own admission and statements their books are geared towards helping kids with math math competitions. I am glad the courses helped your son!!!
Their geometry book is one of the toughest geo books out there. Incredibly thorough. The way the term competition math is being used, it makes it sound like the concepts are skimmed over and the focus is on gimmicks and not absolutely solid mastery of concepts. RR may have been a USAMO winner, but he is also a great math teacher who wrote some great math books and founded a school that is a blessing to gifted math students. There is not another program out there as easily accessible for meeting the needs of these kids.
Fwiw, homeschoolers across the country are using AoPS as their core math curriculum and the goal is not competitions, but having a rock solid math foundation. My son loved their style and thrived with it. My equally gifted math Dd did not enjoy it. She didn’t want to put that much time and effort into math. She is an excellent math student, but her interests are elsewhere. AoPS is definitely not for everyone, but it is a solid program covering “content” of subjects, not books of gimmicks.
In junior high I loved being on math team. (It was 4 girls, 1 guy - we won the regional trophy. Looking back I sometimes wonder if the female advisor had anything to do with the gender ratio. In high school in a different district math team was mostly guys.) The “math relay” did make me a little nervous… first person in the row hands answer back, and it gets used as input for 2nd person’s problem… etc etc. But it was fun too!
I want to second the excellent foundation in math my kid is getting from AoPS. She has completed the preAlgebra and now on second 1/2 of Intro to Algebra texts. . The math in our public school is soo easy and my daughter would not succeed in college if that is all she was taught.
My eighth grader daughter has no interest in math contest, math circle, etc. But she does like AoPS core textbooks.
@1Wife1Kid said “AoPS is not math. It’s competition math which really is just learning tricks to solve problems fast. It doesn’t really provide a core foundation in math. I personally think that it actually hurts more than helps, but is great for the AMCs and such.”
AoPS started out with a couple of problem solving books geared toward competition math, but about a decade ago, they began introducing textbooks to be used as a core curriculum. They now have textbooks for math from elementary school level through calculus. I have used the AoPS textbooks with all three of my kids. Imo, it is one of the most rigorous math programs available. Because of AoPS, my kids have very strong math foundations.
Based on my personal experience, I will pile on with those saying don’t try to steer her anywhere. I did well in all my high school subjects, liked math and science, and was steered into engineering in the 1980’s. I did very well in the classes, but did not like the actual work of engineering. Quit to stay home with my kids and never went back! I was careful to not steer them anywhere.
All of my kids are good at math, oldest started out as an international affairs major, discovered econ in college and double majored, has been working in consulting for 4 years and is headed to MBA school next fall. Next was a video game design major, so he had plenty of math and science in college. Youngest - we were so sure she would end up in philosophy or psychology, but is a computer science major despite never taking a single computer class until college. No STEM EC’s, she was an athlete and did some forensics when she had time.
Oldest said to me once, when she was putting together an IKEA piece her boyfriend couldn’t figure out, that she would have made a good engineer. I agreed with her, there are a lot of things she would have been good at, but she is excelling in the business world, despite having 2 very non-social parents. Her major ECs in HS were model UN and forensics, perhaps that is where she got her poise and confidence! There is so much more than STEM.
