My entering 9th grader has potential and I dropped the ball

Parents Forum
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I hope it’s ok to post this here, I couldn’t find a class of 2030 thread yet. I need help from experienced college confidential parents. I have two kids and my son is a sophomore in college but was special needs with several learning disabilities so over the years so much energy went to helping him, services, fighting constantly for help. And it was successful, he is going great. But I neglected/ took for granted my daughter who is entering the 9th grade.

It was a mistake and I feel awful, although I know I was doing the best I can. She just always does everything right, always does well, is respectful and well liked so it was easy to just let her do her thing. I saw my son do so well never being allowed to do honors or AP classes outside of math, never having the chance to do extra opportunities. But my daughter is actually really showing potential. With no assistance she has been placed in all honors classses which is super rare in our district, they are very against “overloading kids.” I do not think she is a math Olympiad/ MIT type kid. I would support her and she probably could, but doesn’t want to do competitions. She is not competitive at all. When I suggest it she says no.

I need help navigating these summer programs kids do, when do I look at them, are they sleep away, does going to a particular school’s program help with that school or is it for the benefit of other schools? She seems to be strong in every subject, verbal and math (again not a genius, but top of class is what I am hearing, and because it is all self driven), if I sign her up for assistance to help with college essays, when does that happen, junior year? Should she do this summer programs each year? I a, just feeling clueless and I feel like I have a huge ampint to catch up on fast. All my knowledge on IEPs, and services etc no longer relevant.

When do kids start prepping for the SATs?what if they have th potential to be a national merit scholar, do they start prepping earlier?

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Just to add she randomly said last week after looking on her own that she loves Stanford and USC, I am sure that is common for her age, who wouldn’t want to go there? But I want to help her if I can.

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In my opinion, the worst thing you could do is force her to do something she doesn’t want to do. Kids should participate in activities they enjoy.

It’s way too early to build a college list. And realistically, she probably won’t end up at either of these schools. They reject thousands of highly competitive applicants every year. When the time comes, she needs to be looking a broad range of schools.

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Many students thrive by doing their own thing. You can best support her by encouraging her to explore areas that interest her. She does not need to attend summer programs. If they interest her and you can afford them, great. Otherwise there are plenty of other things she can do - volunteer, get a paying job, arts and crafts, sports, family travel, hang out with friends, or just be a kid.

She may not ever need formal prep for the SATs or PSAT. She will probably take the PSAT 8/9 and/or PSAT 10 or other standardized tests in 9th and 10th grades. Her scores on this tests will be clues as to how she might do on the 11th grade exam and SAT. If you are still worried, consider prep the summer between 10th and 11th grades. For right now, encourage her to read widely.

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She is definitely not somehow behind where she needs to be at this stage.

If I was advising her, here are some things I would suggest:

You should NOT do competitions if you do not like competitions. Generally, this classic blog post from MIT has great advice on how to think about preparing for selective college admissions:

On activities, the main takeaway is:

  • Pursue your passion. Find what you love, and do it. Maybe it’s a sport. Maybe it’s an instrument. Maybe it’s research. Maybe it’s being a leader in your community. Math. Baking. Napping. Hopscotch. Whatever it is, spend time on it. Immerse yourself in it. Enjoy it.

Lots of people might try to tell you that you need to do a specific X, Y, or Z. These people almost surely have no real basis for that claim. Selective US residential colleges have a very, very long list of different student activities they see as valuable. They are not looking for 2000 kids who all did the same things. They want to put together a diverse mix of highly active kids who did all sorts of different things. So that is why it is so important to find the things that really make sense for you as an individual, and then dive into those things.

Also pay attention to their advice about being nice. You can think of that more broadly in terms of developing socially and ethically. Ultimately, you should want to be a person who is highly valued by others in your school and/or local community. That ALSO can mean many different things depending on the individual. But you should be just as focused on your development in these ways as your academic development.

As a ninth grader, though, you don’t need to know exactly what all that means for you yet. You have plenty of time to try out different things, and see what actually really works for you. Again, the goal is to find those things you really like, that support developing into the best version of you, such that you can happily put a lot of time and energy into them.

Summer academic programs are largely just useful for exploring interests and learning things. I would not do them on the theory it will “help” with college admissions in terms of serving as a credential. But of course if you gain valuable insight on your interests, prepare better for classes or activities in the upcoming school year, get material for an essay, or so on, that could have some sort of value for admissions as well. If you find a summer program that really excites you and your parents can afford it, then great. If you would rather do something else with your summers, including things like getting a normal paying job, doing self-designed projects, volunteering, non-academic camps, or so on, also great. That overall advice about doing what you like with dedication still applies.

The main Common App essay is something you can begin toward the end of junior year, and that is really only to give you time to try out some different ideas. Supplementals can generally wait until applications actually open in August before senior year.

For National Merit, you take the PSAT in October of junior year. I think you can start serious PSAT prep the summer before junior year. I think a lot earlier really doesn’t make sense for a combination of less time for doing reading and learning math, and retention. But if you want to take the PSAT as a sophomore for baseline/familiarity purposes, that is fine.

You can then transition into SAT/ACT prep. You might want to try out each test with a realistic practice test–some people have a strong preference one way or another. You can take the first real test in the winter or spring of junior year. Sometimes people are one and done. Sometimes they believe they can do better with more prep. If you take your first test winter or spring of junior year, you have at least a couple more opportunities to do the SAT/ACT after more prep, if you want them. It is extremely unlikely you would benefit from taking a real test more than three times (four or five if you count the PSAT).

OK, so none of this is really all that imminent. I’d focus for now on a smooth transition to ninth grade. It can be challenging sometimes, academically, socially, time management, and so on. Make sure you have healthy habits, including all of sleep, nutrition, and exercise. In general, your educational path is a marathon, not a sprint. So make sure you are pacing yourself and not trying to do too much at once.

And have fun! People sometimes get caught up in thinking about the next thing, and don’t get as much as they could out of the current thing. But high school is part of your real life, as much as any part of your future life will be. Most people do not have a perfect HS experience, but to the extent possible, you want to look back and think HS ended up being a time you spent in a way you really valued for itself, and not just as a step on the way to college.

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Your D is fiine! No need for academic programs. If she were going to do anything related to academics, I would suggest that she devise a good plan for approaching what will be a heavier workload than she’s had in past. Buy a planner, make sure she has a good place to study, have a plan for "disconnecting " while working, etc. Her schedule is great because it preserves options going forward, but it is likely to be more demanding than what she has experienced so far.

For the summer, she should do what she loves. It could be a camp, Outward Bound, art, cooking, music, theater, sports, reading, etc. Let her take the lead.

You can focus on understanding the financial side of college (although you are probably up to speed with a sophomore). Your support for your D is all she needs.

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i can relate since I have a kid with complex chronic medical needs. There are many ways to balance things out among our kids,and having a conversation about how you want to support your daughter and realize a lot of time has gone into your other child, recognize how well she has done independently but she also deserves your maximum attention. I really think this is a priority.

For ninth grade there is no need to worry a lot about scores and college admissions. In fact, in my view, focusing on college admissions too early can really distort the high school experience in a negative way.

I always felt that encouraging my kids’ interests was like catching a wave in surfing. Maybe they had a small part in a play and loved it. Maybe they love music, so find a teacher. Maybe they took a dance class, loved that, drive them there (My talent is driving!). If they like to draw, write, if they are a techie, just keep an ear and eye out for ways to develop. Maybe they want to volunteer at a hospital, with animals, a food program, a nature camp, a local tv station. Over the next 4 years she will be exposed to many interests and can explore and deepen as comes naturally. Authenticity is key.

Behind the scenes (no (no need to discuss with her), investigate colleges. My favorite site is Colleges that Change Lives ctcl.org. If she does well, she can also look at the “little Ivies” (google that). Lots of possibilities. When the time comes, she can find a school that fits her so no need to try to fit a certain school or two.

I think the emotional support is the priority, especially in the context of a sibling with challenges. You don’t have to make up for your prior focus by finding summer programs or SAT Prep. Just talk and most of all listen!

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First off you seem like a great mom. Spending energy on one kid when he needed it is OK. I don’t think you neglected your daughter. You do what you need to do. Being a parent is hard and not everything is clearly spelled out in the “Parents rulebook “. Great suggestions already given. Our area has city wide camps. Our kid’s did do sleep away camps since middle school. My son did a few sleep away on different college campuses engineering camps. They were fun. My daughter took acting, dance and singing lessons. She baby sat. He went to chess camp also and was a chess camp counselor at another. We did family vacations. She’s a great student. Let her be a kid also. Just ask her if anything interests her and go from there. The summer programs don’t give her a leg up at that school. At a small school Lac maybe. But I wouldn’t start the college discussions unless she brings it up. But tame those expectations. Getting into some schools is just luck regardless of her grades and activates. Colleges do like student’s that are active in a few high school actives. She should do thing’s that she has interests in. It’s pretty much that simple. But I will say. Northwestern has some great summer programs for advanced kids or those that need to be challenged. We are local to NW. But people come from all over and you live on campus. You might have something similar near you. Our son did a program there and loved it.

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:joy: :automobile: This is so true for many of us. Lol

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This…and it certainly was not needed before ninth grade (which apparently is now).

At this point, your student should do their personal best. They should pick and do ECs that they enjoy, not ones they think will impress some adcoms years from now.

But most of all, they should be allowed to be 14-18 years old, and enjoy all of the things NOT academic about high school. Friends, social activities, family, etc. This student will never get those years back.

College is four years away for this student. I hope you will ask for advice about college choices in a couple of years, once this student has completed some high school courses, and has a better idea of what they actually want out of college when the time comes.

RE summer programs…if you are doing these to gain some college advantage for this student, I would suggest you NOT do it for this reason. IF your student attends a summer program, it should be because it’s something they really want to do…again, not to impress an adcom down the road. There are plenty of worthwhile things to do in the summer that are NOT summer programs…volunteer someplace, when older…get a part time job. Enjoy vacation time with the family and friends.

The biggest thing you can do now is figure out your annual college budget for this student. That will help identify colleges when the time comes to do so.

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The good sleepaway math program (CanadaUSA Mathcamp, Brown MathILY, SUMaC, Ross, PROMYS) don’t give an extra special advantage for that specific school, but they do strengthen the applicant’s profile due to their rigor and selectivity. If she’s interested, she should look at their past admissions tests. Most likely, they will be far too difficult for where she is now, but math skills is something that develops with focused practice. Many past math competitions are great sources of challenging practice problems that can develop one’s math skill. Another non-competiton source is the USA Mathematics Talent Search, which she might find more interesting than math competitions: Past Problems | USA Mathematical Talent Search

Keep in mind that most summer programs you see advertised are not prestigious or impressive (even those run by a university). You can ask here of you’re not sure about a specific one.

Generally focused prep for NMSQT in Junior fall happens in the summer before, if at all. If you are a donut hole family, that can be an important factor in getting good merit aid so it’s worth studying for.

Does she like math? What does she like about it? Would she be willing to do extra math (e.g. AoPS books) after school to explore math in greater depth?

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This is my answer when people ask! To the OP: on the other hand driving in the car proved to be the best way to connect to kids. Not sure why but they always talked more about their lives, worries, hopes, sitting in the passenger seat of my car. In your situation- trying to compensate for focus on another child- you might want to take some long drives!

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The PSAT is the test they need to prep for first. This is given fall of junior year of high school…so two plus years away for this student.

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All of the advice given so far is great. I especially vibe with:

  • look for ways to develop budding interests as she discovers them. Notice when she lights up talking about things—animals, friends, academic subjects, the world’s problems. These are clues into her passions. Look around your community or online for opportunities to explore those things more fully, see if she is interested and take her lead
  • Drive drive drive. Taking my kids around was the best way to hear about what’s on their minds. Be a good, active listener. Do not lecture :slight_smile: This is especially important for a kid who seems “perfect” in daily interactions. There’s stuff going on under that layer of “everything is great, mom.” Be a safe and soft spot for her to land when she is having a hard time. You might have to get really good at detecting the things that bother her because she covers them up or because she has learned not to burden anyone (due to a high needs sibling or her own natural tendency). It’s worth it to get good at that.

If I were to add anything more tangibly, it would be…

  • if she is great at math and likes it, make sure she is on the track to reach calculus by senior year. Sometimes schools don’t do that without some prompting from parents, particularly with girls. At our school district, the normal sequencing of math is Algebra, geometry, algebra 2, pre calculus, calculus. Which means that kids who didn’t take Algebra in 8th grade will not reach calculus if they don’t either double up on math freshman year or do an online class over the summer. Taking Calculus is helpful for stem majors should she want that down the road. Likewise, if she is already on an advanced track, she can look into dual enrollment to go beyond Calculus.
  • If she shows interest, there’s no harm in visiting a nearby college earlier than junior year. I took my daughter to UC Berkeley in 10th grade because she wanted to see it and it was 20 mins from our house. She was so excited and motivated by the visit. We didn’t do another visit for a long while but it lit a fire so she could see herself as a college student. Again, offer it but take her lead
  • I spent a decent amount of time researching summer programs at various colleges and institutions and both my kids did them over a couple of their high school summers. The best experiences were the in person, residential programs that gave them a taste of college life, introduced them to kids from around the world, and helped them explore a passion. The application processes also helped them get used to writing essays and filling out forms. But they were expensive relative to other great activities they could have done at home (like employment, volunteering in their community, etc). I don’t know that I would pursue the pre-college programs more than once, and probably only after sophomore or junior year.
  • And you aren’t behind! Every kid has different needs and now you get to spend time supporting your daughter’s high school experience. Listen, take her lead, help her when she needs it… and enjoy it :slight_smile:
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Lots of good advice.

Just wanted to say something about summer programs. There are two types basically. One are the competitive ones that send a signal to other colleges about selectivity and potential (and for Chicago, allows you ED0 but that’s another story). If she is interested in and competitive for these - go for it. Nice for the experience, a nice thing to have on the resume. The other is “pay to play”. These are not selective (though they can and do run out of space if they are popular) and they will not give a “leg up” in college admissions as such and they get some bad press among the set whose kids are focused on tippy top colleges. However, they can still be valuable to the student in the sense of giving them a taste of majors they may be interested in - and even learning that a particular major is not for you is valuable. My kid went to one of these programs - an intensive 4 week, 6 days a week one - and not only confirmed that it was something they wanted to do but it also meant they were really able to answer the “why this major” supplemental questions well because of what they learnt and did on the program. Another outcome of these programs - getting some experience of dorm life and actual living on a campus. Flip side of that is that a number of colleges will have lower age limits for kids on this so realistically most of these probably will be something you’re looking at in the summer between junior and senior year, possibly a year earlier if your kid is one of the older cohort in their year.

Bottom line for both types: if it’s something that interests your kid and you can afford it /or if its funded obviously - go for it. If it’s going to be a chore for your kid but you’re doing it because you think it looks good on a college app -find something else to do for summer.

And that’s also the general advice - let your kid lead the way on what interests her. This doesn’t mean you just sit back and do nothing - you can certainly do some research to see what’s out there that she may not find out on her own. Some things may interest her, others won’t. But please don’t make her entire high school career all about “what will this look like on your college application”. Let her be a teen!

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Lots of good advice here. I’ll add that for my kids, we didn’t talk much about college until after 10th grade. I wanted them to develop their interests and strengths as organically as possible, and make decisions that weren’t influenced by “does this look good for colleges?” Once they are in junior year, they are more ready to think about colleges and to form opinions about what types of school environments they thought they liked and what their academic interests were.

One other piece of advice is, once specific schools become a part of the conversation, to avoid “talking up” highly rejective schools – like Ivys, Stanford, MIT, Duke, Northwestern, Notre Dame, etc. And, try to gently push back on the idea of having a “dream school.” Try instead to instill an understanding that there are a range of schools, that are in a range of bands of admissions competitiveness, that could be a great fit for your daughter. It’s hard to do, as kids hear about certain schools - from the internet, from their friends - and assume those are the only schools that are worth their time. But, it’s helpful if they’re not getting that message from their parents as well, and a little “counter-programming” against the idea that perceived “prestige” is the main goal can really help them focus on fit as opposed to prestige. It will make for a much less stressful senior year!

It sounds like you’re doing great right now - best of luck!

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I was going to suggest the same thing about calculus. In our school district, parents need to be aware of which math tracks are available in which schools. The majority of schools in our district start Algebra 1 in eighth grade for honors students, so they can reach Calculus BC by senior year. Standard non-honors track is Algebra 1 in 9th grade, which results in Pre-Calculus as a senior. It is possible for students who are ready to move beyond Calculus BC in high school to create a pathway, but they need to self-advocate. Our high school helps kids figure out how to get to calculus if they want to no matter where they start, but I have family in other districts who were never advised that many selective schools like to see calculus by 12th grade. A lot depends on your school’s advising policies and your child’s readiness/interest. It’s just something to be aware of.

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Our early track is algebra 1 in 7th, but ab calc is a prerequisite for bc calc.

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I agree that students who have Excellent math foundations can be accelerated in math. There are students for which acceleration is really the best track.

BUT…on many districts this math acceleration has taken a life of its own. Parents whose kids are not recommended for this often complain and appeal to administration even if this might not be the best option for the student.

The student in the OP is entering grade 9. Acceleration usually happens in grade 8. So…where is this student now?

And, you can major in a STEM field in college without taking calculus in high school. The student would take the course in college.

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Fully agree, Calc isn’t necessary, per se, but math tracking is something I learned from parents with older kids and I found really helpful. Obviously no one should fast track kids who are struggling in math, but for those who are ready, it is very helpful to understand the long term implications of where your kid is placed.

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