<p>Please, please please don’t turn this into another Venus and Mars thread.</p>
<p>Good manners and acting like a grownup are not gender specific. I ran this scenario by my H, and he said he’d be tremendously disappointed in our S if he responded like that. We both agreed we could imagine a scenario where S forgot to get the cake, but can’t imagine at all that he just wouldn’t bother or imply that he was too busy with video games.</p>
<p>Maybe too many dads telling their sons that hurting someone’s feelings is no big deal is the cause of the problem. I know enough evolved males to know it doesn’t have to be that way. And it’s certainly time for the OP’s S to learn how to be a grownup.</p>
<p>THe MAN, which the 19 year old I am sure thinks he is and expects mom to treat him, is not a boy. Why this attitude that teens shouldn’t have manners, respect and care for other human beings</p>
<p>THere is no excuse for not getting the cake, this well, he is a boy and well, boys are just like that is hogwash</p>
<p>Immature, selfish men are like that</p>
<p>Youthful thoughtlessness? yeah, how do we expect them to grow up and be responsible unless they see that their rude behavior hurts others</p>
<p>DO they learn this if people say nothing to them?</p>
<p>to those that say let it go, how in the world do you think this MAN will ever learn to care about others feelings unless someone tells him he blew it</p>
<p>an uncle, his dad, someone needs to tell this 19 year old man to step up and act like the adult he thinks he is</p>
<p>if you want to say its a guy thing, then guys to to teach the other males how to be courteus</p>
<p>it saddens me that some seem to think it doesn’t matter, what is this how you would want your daughter to be treated by her husband, I don’t think so, but unless someone tells this young man that what he did was really cold and hurtful, he won’[t change</p>
<p>Yep. He needs to know that acts of thoughtfulness must be acknowledged at the very least and not dismissed whether they are surprises or not. Also, if he is to function well with other women in his life, it’s time to understand that many of us do appreciate it when our efforts are noticed. Tell him when you are over some of the hurt.</p>
<p>Well, this is how he learns. This is his first time away from home, right? Do all of you who feel so strongly have sons? I think there is a difference. While there are sensitive men/sons, many young men are still going through their social-emotional development at this age. The Mars/Venus thing is not true for ALL men but the book was written because it is true enough for a most or many. We know that girls are better at social niceties, at communications, that they are more tuned into body language, emotions, gestures, etc. while boys may lag in this area with some exceptions. This is a teachable moment but I don’t think we should presume that the kid is devoid of manners or sensitivity. Once he “gets” it that Mom is hurt (as opposed to mad) he will likely learn something from this experience. If not, he is probably very immature and maybe overfocused on whatever is happening to him at the moment. I do think his comments were a little concerning re: videogames since it raises the questions - was he THAT invested in the videogame, was he actually doing something else, and, is he not grounded right now (can’t respond normally to this action)?</p>
<p>When I was a freshman in college I let Mother’s Day go by–just totally self-centered behavior–and my mom told me in no uncertain terms how it made her feel. I never forgot that.</p>
<p>I think in our culture we permit boys to slip up with these things more than girls, and it really doesn’t do anyone a favor.</p>
<p>People learn because others teach them…yes, he was devoid of manners and sensitivty when it really mattered…and he will only learn something if someone tells him he blew it and blew it big time</p>
<p>and I am soooo tired of this claptrap about emotionial social development to justify bad manners, selfish behavior - many 12 year old boys would have behaved better</p>
<p>I think we let people get away with rudeness by saying its a developmental phase…well people will stay in that phase if people don’t teach and show the proper way to behave</p>
<p>I don’t get the attitude of “boys will be boys” to let bad behavior and attitudes slide</p>
<p>we should expect more from our young people</p>
<p>It actually scares me the idea that, well, their brains aren’t fully developed until they are 25 so eh, they don’t need to act with respect, with caution, with care, and like adults, which they are</p>
<p>brains and intellect need to be trained, if we just ignore it, then no growth will happen</p>
<p>mom needs to share that she is really sad and disappointed in her son, yes she is angry, but she is more sad that he is so self obsorbed and this well he is a 19 year old boy is rubbish as an excuse</p>
<p>mom1957-
Any chance your son was just yanking your chain a bit? My younger s loves to do that to me-- to tell me he isn’t going to do something (which he does typically end up doing, or in some cases, has already done). I think he revels in watching my hair turn gray! He seems to do this for sport. Of course, I do not find it it the least bit entertaining! Also, if you happened to call him when he was in the middle of one of his online xbox live games, you probably got only a small segment of his attention, and obviously none of his diplomacy. I think sometimes a nuclear bomb could go off when my guys are playing xbox live and they still wouldn’t hear it. </p>
<p>None of this excuses bad manners, but perhaps can help put it into a bit of perspective. Hopefully the next call you get from him will be a thank you. I suspect he will get the cake, and will enjoy it, regardless of whether it is still fresh, or is beginning to get a little age on it. I fully agree that it is appropriate to let him know that the “mommy gift department” is now closed until further notice, and that you were sure he didn’t mean to intentially hurt your feelings (especially if this is out of character for him). </p>
<p>I do love the suggestion about asking him to cash the check enclosed! Priceless!</p>
<p>If you are the pratical joker type, you can next time send him a box with the empty packages/wrappers from chocolate chips, butter, sugar, brown sugar, etc. (since you expected he wouldnt pick it up anyway, but he’ll get the message) and send the box of homemade chocolate chip cookies to his roommate!!</p>
I agree. For exmaple, I can count on one hand the number of times I have slammed a door in my house life because I knew that it was rude and would not be tolerated. Would it be normal for me, as an eight or eleven or fourteen year old, to get mad and slam my bedroom door on occassion? Of course. But that doesn’t mean I should just be allowed to do it. I was told very clearly the first time I did it that smalling doors was very rude behavior, and for that reason I very, very rarely have. People learn only when they are taught–in one way or another. If you decide that a rude behavior is normal, and thus OK to tolerate, the person will never learn the proper and polite way to act.</p>
<p>You need to tell him in a calm way (an email is a great idea) that you went to a lot of trouble, and for you sending him that cake was a way of sending love, and you are very hurt that he couldn’t be bothered to venture across campus to pick up your gift. I agree that a brief mention of not allowing video games to interfere with real life is also appropriate. I’d also explain to him calmly why he will not be receiving any more care packages. All of this should be brief.</p>
<p>I agree that it may be more likely that a son would do this than a daughter, but I don’t think that makes it any more acceptable. I cannot stand that old “boys will be boys” saying. I have one child of each gender and I expect each to become caring, mature adults. Why are our expectations for boys lower than for girls? Boys are just as capable of thinking about someone other than themselves and their own immediate needs as girls are. But it will never happen if we don’t hold them to that expectation.</p>
<p>I think the title of this thread “I am in pain” says it all. Your son needs to know that.</p>
<p>I, too, would be hurt by the behavior detailed in the OP. I think there are some good suggestions in this thread.
Still in the process of raising a difficult son (oh, excuse me, MAN) of 20, all I can say to Citygirlsmom is “I hope you don’t have a son.”<br>
They mess us. They mess up a LOT. And, hopefully, we teach them and they learn.</p>
<p>*As a student, and a guy no less, I can say you definitely have reason to feel hurt. He could have at least come up with a better excuse then video games to make you feel better. But from his point of view, he’s probably oblivious and sees it as no big deal, so keep that in mind when you decide to talk with him.</p>
<p>If he doesn’t appreciate the care packages, then I guess the logical thing to do would be to stop sending them. But rest assured that a lot of other kids, myself included, would be jealous of a parent like you.*</p>
<p>My mom didn’t even remember my birthday until I reminded her two days after! Your kids got it good</p>
<p>You’re not alone. I sent gourmet cookies to my son in his freshman year. After a month of petrifying in the mailroom, they were returned to the gourmet bakery–where the bakers were devastated. They called me overseas to ask me why my son hated their brownies. They’d never had brownies returned in such a state.</p>
<p>He didn’t hate them. He never went to his mailbox. Snail mail is truly dead for my son.</p>
<p>My pleasant image of him enjoying a big box of gourmet brownies with his floor buddies was busted. He didn’t need brownies or ‘care’ packages. He’d moved on.</p>
<p>I took his cue and I moved on too–I never sent him another ‘care’ package. I took that chore right off my ‘to do’ list.</p>
<p>I have a strong suspicion that my S did not pick up many items of mail that were sent to him. The mail center is not terribly conveniently located, and he is not used to receiving stuff by snail mail. Fortunately, we’re not in the habit of sending perishable goods, except at Christmas, and these get delivered to the door of the recipients.</p>
<p>Cheers – glad you chimed in. I thought I remembered that story from some time ago – I just couldn’t remember who posted it. </p>
<p>I’m surprised that your son didn’t pick up the cake, or have someone else do it. In my experience, college kids love sweets. Maybe your child doesn’t have a sweet tooth? I’m sure that he can still pick it up if he hasn’t already – cakes don’t go stale so quickly. </p>
<p>Yes, tell him that if you send a cake, you expect him to pick it up. And he has to call you and thank you. That’s just how it is. </p>
<p>I would also ask him, though, if there is some other way he would like to have his birthday acknowledged, perhaps? Maybe he never liked cake that much. Just a thought. I am not big on cakes myself. I always send my boys boxes of mail order cookies for their birthdays. Which as far as I know, they always pick up and eat. So they tell me. If they didn’t want those, I would ask them what they did want for their birthdays. </p>
<p>And yes, the kids will mess up, though there may be some exceptional children out there that never do. You read about them on these boards, sometimes. Frankly, I have yet to meet a real live person that doesn’t sometimes screw things up. When it comes to our kids, they need reminders when they do, about better ways to handle situations. As do we all.</p>
<p>It’s tough to get mad at S1 when I discovered a STACK of my lengthy love letters to DH–unopened. As he is the most attentive, adoring H of all time, it’s hard to make any meaningful connection other than…apples…trees…</p>
<p>A hug to you. I know my kids have at times hurt my feelings when I have spent time doing something special for them and they don’t seem to appreciate it. While there is no excuse for his rude behavior he could have no clue as to how much effort you made to make that cake and do something special for his birthday.
For my D I do take the time to make special care packages for her. I did it today since her Dad will visit her tomorrow. I will probably not send care packages to my son when he leaves for college in the fall. I know there would be the strong possiblity that he would do as your son has done and leave it sitting in the mailroom. My D appreciates it my son would not. Stuff like that is not important to him. For my D the care package lets her know that we love her and are thinking of her. For my son it is just stuff and food.</p>
<p>With birthdays it is the same. As much as I remind my son that it is his Dad’s or siblings birthdays and he needs to either make a card or get a gift it rarely happens or is done at the absolute last minute. I did tell him after he purposedly missed his sister’s birthday that I was going to miss his next birthday. The reality of it is he would not care if no one acknowledged his birthday. He is of the mind that it is how we treat people all the time not just on a certain day of the year.
I think you are right to tell your son how you feel. Just don’t expect him to behavior differently next time.</p>
<p>moms–I haven’t read this whole thread, but this week my 19yo S
got his braces off after 6 (SIX!!) years (3 moves, 5 different orthodontists, and $*#%&@. . .) I thought this event was worthy of celebration, and since he was going back to college in a couple days, I made a very nice dinner and a cake–which his sister decorated with a big smile (sans braces).
(We haven’t had many family dinners lately–our house is for sale and we’ve been eating a lot of fast food). Well–you guessed it–S wouldn’t get off his bleeping computer to come to dinner. I didn’t want to spoil the meal for the rest of the family (yelling etc.), but later I did give him a very serious guilt-inducing (I hope) talk about maturity and consideration–showing appreciation for others’ time and effort, EVEN if it’s not what you want to do at that moment. I also reminded him to thank his dad the next day for driving him (long drive) to the airport. (H came home and said, “S actually THANKED me for driving him to the airport–can you believe it?!” lol–I didn’t let on. . .)</p>
<p>Yes, my kid is a rude, selfish, inconsiderate jerk at times, too.</p>
<p>So, anyway, S flew back to college yesterday and quickly realized that he forgot almost ALL of his clothes–which were stored in his brothers’ room here. I’m not in a big hurry to mail them. Maybe he can wear the same 2 or 3 shirts all semester ;)</p>