So would this be the kind of thing they’d bring in a forensic psychologist for? If they find stuff on his computer and cell phone?
@Nrdsb4 On Sunday morning, the pastor of a local Baptist church preached a sermon celebrating Orlando. He said he was only sorry that the shooter “didn’t finish the job” and equated gays with pedophiles. He said that he thinks the government ought to round up all the gays and put them in front of a firing squad. I wouldn’t have believed it, except there’s video.
As a believing Christian myself, this is disturbing and offensive beyond words, and the thought occurs – this must be exactly how Muslims feel when angry ideologues pervert their faith and twist it into something it isn’t, for their own sick purposes. Except that unlike Muslims, I’m certain that millions of uninformed Americans won’t believe that this guy is representative of my faith, and come after me for it.
@LasMa I wish I could give that comment a million likes!
A relevant article: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hate-crimes-against-lgbt-people-are-sadly-common/
I would imagine if several or more people there were armed, there would have been fewer casualties (at a minimum). The idea of having armed civilians in a situation like this is for deterrence. A shooter will be less confident, and less motivated, to enter a place where many people are able to shoot back at him.
These are not upstanding criminals looking for a fair fight. These are cowards are looking for easy targets, crowded places where people are completely defenseless.
Is that right though? Is it better to just let everyone die for fear of not shooting someone on accident trying to save more people? It’s a tough pill to swallow, I agree, but what is the best option here?
I bring all of this up for intellectual discussion, not to stir up a gun control debate. I honestly want to know how some of you would tackle this real-world problem. I am open to changing my stance on the issue if I hear a convincing, logical argument.
@LasMa
Video.Ugh. Hope he doesn’t get an audience.
jym, it’s so revolting that I don’t want to post it here. I’ll PM you the link. Anyone else who wants it, PM me.
http://time.com/4366957/orlando-shooting-juan-guerrero-christopher-drew-leinonen/
A couple that planned on getting married but will have a joint funeral instead. So, so sad. They looked so handsome, healthy, and happy. I remember seeing Drew’s mother crying on TV and it was utterly heartbreaking.
45 minutes of spewing hate? Awful that that guy has a pulpit.Cannot listen to hate mongering.
One of the problems with having everyone armed – even well-intentioned, decent/caring individuals – is that you might end up with misidentification issues. What if they can’t tell who’s firing the criminal shots?
And in a club, you add the effects of the booze, and the chances of them hitting the bad guy the first time, and not hitting any of themselves (the good guys), likely decreases dramatically.
I think it’s a noble thought to want to protect ourselves as well as possible; I just don’t think in that setting, at least, it’s a good idea to have everyone armed.
Sigh, the self righteous Christians can get very absurd. One thing is that this guy expressed hatred for more than just gays - women, blacks, and Jews also. And if he was truly influenced by ISIS, or any other radical organization, I doubt he had a great love for Christians either. He could have shot up a church, a historically black college, anything else as well. I’m not sure why they think he was doing the Christians a personal favor.
In this country we have people legislating laws allowing for discrimination against LGBT people in the name of religion. I see people posting bible verses to support their hatred, including verses calling for death. The LGBT community is still the target of hate crimes, still the target of discrimination. And we’re surprised when they are targeted like this? Many people need to do some soul searching on this, because even hate the sin, love the sinner is insulting.
@fractalmstr I’m not allowed to say what I think would help, as it’s against forum rules. But suffice it to say, if you truly believe arming drunk people is the answer, there’s nothing I can say that would change your mind.
This guy was released because of “civil liberties” push to release him. Somebody have a blood on their hands, but it still does not help the victims and their families and will not help the future victims and their families as PC will continue stomping all over us and our dead bodies. PC is a very expensive winner, but the winner nonetheless and will continue winning at the expanse of our lives.
DAP, and what do you propose should have happened instead? Arrest and detain an American citizen who has committed no crime? That’s what they do in Saudi Arabia and Russia. Is that the club you think we should join?
Yes, the FBI interviewed the murderer and after a pretty intense surveillance, took him off the watch list. Were they wrong? Maybe, maybe not. It’s like psychiatry amd suicide - you can only go so far in evaluating actions amd words to read minds. There’s no objective set of measurements to the human heart. It’s also possible that the shooter himself changed over time, since the interviews were some 2 years ago.
We do have to be careful with civil liberties. A friend’s husband is an FBI agent, and he complained that they were inundated with terrorism tips after 9/11, and almost every one turned out to be a vengeful girl/boy friend/spouse.
I think a lot of Americans don’t really distinguish between the subtle variations in philosophy of these various groups. They have Islamic roots and are opposed to the West. Therefore they are all in the same cloth. And those groups probably do something similar - they aren’t going to ask you the details of your religious convictions before blowing a hole in you.
I doubted this was Islamic terrorism from the get go and I think all the stuff coming out about him today points to it being simply a cover for the real reason he committed mass murder and why he choose Pulse.
^He was released, or not detained, because he hadn’t committed a crime and there was no lawful basis to lock him up. What exactly do you suggest? Every angry nutcase should be imprisoned indefinitely without trial?
^ Maybe put them on a mild (but effective) mood stabilizer? I know that infringes on their rights, but that harm pales in comparison to the damage they could potentially inflict in a fit of rage or through nefarious, sociopathic planning.
@prezbucky Are you seriously suggesting medicating someone who has not been identified as having a mental illness? Plenty of people in society have the potential to “inflict damage” in a rage fit.