Indian Male from Bay area for Duke ED1 (LEGACY) and Vandy ED2 [CA resident, 3.9 GPA, 34 ACT, economics, philosophy, finance, accounting]

I’m not an expert on Duke specifically. But what I have gathered from listening to AOs at a variety of highly selective colleges discuss grades and transcripts is they are primarily interested in the grades for courses you took for HS credit and that appear on your HS transcript.

This makes sense to me because ultimately they are trying to come up with comparable internal academic ratings for different applicants, and it is already incredibly complicated just to try to “normalize” different HS transcripts. They are often putting a lot of work into doing that, including possibly with software that helps them process transcripts, possibly fold in other contextual information, and so on.

Adding in other courses not taken for HS credit would require even more complex analysis, and yet would only be relevant for applicants who do that. So it makes sense to me they would typically not want to further complicate this already very complex task in this way.

In addition, one might suggest putting much weight on such courses would potentially be problematic because while generally speaking kids in the US have free high schools available to them, additional classes not for HS credit can be quite expensive. And I gather colleges often prefer to treat expensive academic programs outside of HS more as demonstrations of interests versus actual qualifications for this reason, among others.

In any event, you have done what you have done and you can see what happens. I again would just suggest you have modest expectations.

Of course that is up to you. But there are so many other private research universities and LACs that would at least provide a very different experience from UCR/UCM. Given that you seem interested in that sort of experience, to me it would make sense to look at those alternatives too. But again, if you are confident you would rather attend UCR/UCM than those other sorts of colleges, unless US News gave them a ranking at that level, then that is up to you.

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This student mentioned accounting as just one choice. Duke is an excellent choice, in my opinion, for their other interests.

Duke is an absolute top tier feeder for IB, PE and hedge funds (meaning finance). It also has one of the strongest alumni networks out there.

They also have a bunch of relevant course work even without a finance or accounting major…

coursicle.com

FINANCE courses at Duke University | Coursicle Duke

All FINANCE courses at Duke University (Duke) in Durham, North Carolina.

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I looked on LinkedIn and goodness gracious were there ever a lot of Duke graduates in finance.:grinning:

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Again - lets not mix apples and oranges.

We don’t have any clue what the student wants to do in life.

All I said was - if the student potentially wants to be an accountant, then Duke would not be a wise choice.

Yes, they listed four majors - we have no idea which they’d gravitate to.

It’s no different than when a student says they want to be an engineer and they choose Bowdoin - and everyone says - you should go to a school that offers engineering - so you have that choice available should you choose it.

Moving on…

OP just remember when choosing a school you will have to be there day after day after day. FYI Duke’s food options are very highly rated . Focus on fit!

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In terms of what to do academically as an undergrad if you are interested in possibly going to law school . . . .

So in the US, you can major in anything respectable and then go to law school. But grades are very important when it comes to competitive law school admission. So the standard advice for law school admissions purposes is to try to quickly figure out what major you would enjoy and do really well in, and it might in fact not be what you think going into college.

That said, I also like to point out that law school involves a lot of very difficult reading and writing. And in fact, most lawyers basically do reading and writing as the core of their jobs. So beyond just law school admissions, I think if you want to be as prepared as possible to do well in law school and as a lawyer, you should think about how you could develop the most as a reader and writer while in college.

Philosophy is a popular pre-law major in part because it tends to serve this purpose well. You have to learn how to read a lot of dense, arcane texts, critically analyze them, discuss them, then write about them. Pretty great practice for law school and being a lawyer. But of course it isn’t the only major like that. People sometimes recommend Classics as well. English or History majors can be good. And so on.

But another thing you can do is just pick a college that overall places an emphasis on this sort of skill development. Like, a lot of Liberal Arts Colleges are very good for this. Jesuit colleges are often very good for this. And in fact Trinity College, the Arts & Sciences undergraduate program at Duke, would be very good for this. You can then just really embrace the variety of good reading and writing opportunities available to you at colleges like that, and again major in anything respectable that you enjoy and get really good grades in.

As it happens, US News has a list of colleges it suggests “typically make the writing process a priority at all levels of instruction and across the curriculum. Students are encouraged to produce and refine various forms of writing for different audiences in different disciplines”:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/writing-programs

As they explain, “In spring and summer 2024, we invited college presidents, chief academic officers, deans of students and deans of admissions from more than 1,500 schools to nominate up to 15 institutions with stellar examples of writing in the disciplines. Colleges and universities that received 10 or more nominations are ranked here.”

As usual with such a thing, I would not take it too strictly, and I would view it inclusively and not exclusively. But it is definitely an interesting mix.

Duke is third, so there you go–external validation of that being a good choice. Lots of other private universities like that, 9 of the 22.

There are also a variety of LACs on the list–10 out of the 22 in fact. Georgetown, a Jesuit colleges, also made the list at #15. And there are a couple other interesting names–Elon, which is extremely undergrad focused, and Iowa, which has a legendary English department.

Again, there are way more than 22 colleges which would provide a strong reading and writing education, but this does give you some idea of the different sorts of colleges that could be good for that purpose.

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Deleted.

Just had dinner with friends whose child has a BA in economics and now works as a senior software engineer at a very big, well known company. What one majors in may ultimately have little to do with what their career becomes. Good luck with Duke!!

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In our fly-over city, it is easier to get into Dartmouth as a tippy top student than it is Duke. I’ve seen one after another of 36/4.0 with fantastic EC’s all get rejected by Duke. It is really nuts that we have kids who get into equally selective schools yet can’t crack the Duke door.

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Philosophy is sometimes suggested over other humanities for prelaw students because it has a greater emphasis on logical thinking that is useful in interpreting laws.

The logic puzzle section on the LSAT tests logical thinking, and it is no surprise that philosophy majors (along with math majors) tend to do well on the LSAT.

Absolutely. Different studies have found somewhat different lists of top LSAT scores by major, but Philosophy and Math are pretty much always among the top group. Physics (obviously close to math), and Religion and Classics (close to Philosophy) also tend to do well.

As usual, though, there is a bit of a chicken and egg problem here because people who are already better with that sort of reasoning may be more likely to be drawn to such majors. But it likely isn’t bad to reinforce it anyway.

I guess I do not find that surprising because at least as far back as when I was applying, Duke had a sort of special appeal to certain applicants. Some of that was about sports, some about regionalism, and so on.

And I think that helped make it a bit harder admit at least in some cases than its academic peers which were otherwise quite different. And in other cases it was maybe an easier admit. But overall it does not surprise me a given school might send more kids to Dartmouth than Duke, or vice-versa, since they are really such different colleges.

If Duke is your favorite it makes sense to ED there. Your legacy status will help you most during ED. I’m not sure how much the 3 B grades you got your junior year will hurt your candidacy - all you can do is put your best foot forward. I’d suggest having some schools between T25s and UCR/UCM on your radar - there are many good ones where you’d have a better chance of admission.

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Please share where you think I would go to because even though I am full pay, unless it is a T20-T25 I do not find myself paying for a private school. So I would settle with one of the UCs and pay in-state tuition.

I note this is part of why I mentioned that other private colleges may have robust merit programs.

Private colleges are of course aware that to attract some of the students they really want away from good OOS and sometimes in-state programs, they may need to offer a discount from their full COA. They often do that in part through generous need aid, and for some of these colleges that may be enough.

But some of these colleges appear to have found that generous need aid alone is not enough to enroll the classes they really want. So, they adopt merit programs as well.

And as a high level observation, if you are actually competitive for admissions to the sorts of private colleges ranked in the top 20 National Universities by the US News, you are very likely also competitive for merit offers from a wide variety of other private colleges.

Incidentally, some public colleges also try to make their OOS program more competitive with merit. But it is less common, including because for many publics the OOS program is intended to provide revenues that are effectively cross-subsidies for in-state students.

OK, so at that high level, you really have something like five categories to potentially consider as an applicant without need:

Privates without merit, privates with merit, OOS without merit, OOS with merit, and in-state.

Now of course if you are sufficiently wealthy you truly do not care about cost at all, none of this may matter to you. Just pick your favorite whatever category it may happen to fall into.

But if your position is more that there has to be enough additional marginal value to justify any additional marginal cost over your in-state options–that make sense, but depending on how those middle categories work out for you, some of them might well survive such a test.

Indeed, possibly with enough merit, some of your private or OOS options could actually be less expensive than your in-state options, even if you have no ability to get need aid.

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Depends on major. If you want finance or accounting? It’d be IU or UIUC. Or SMU, Villanova, Wisconsin, Ohio State.

If you want econ, the list is different.

School rank or major rank ?

Duke is very clear that legacy only counts in ED. So shoot your shot if that’s what you’re hoping for. My daughter also liked Duke and Vandy - they’re “happy” schools. It’s something we looked hard at as her initial thinking was Hopkins - take a minute - think about what you really want.

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Duke feeds a high percent into finance careers, traditional IB and also quant. It is a very popular path from Duke, and “known” top places target Duke (and other privates) that do not have “finance” majors: Econ, math, physics and other majors get into finance with predictable regularity.

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OP: the most important factor for Duke is your transcript of your in-your-high-school courses. You said about 10 get in to T20s from your school: did you take the hardest courses those 10 usually take, in your high school? How do your grades compare to the typical Top 10-20 kids? Obviously all 10 unhooked who go to T20s are not all the actual top 10 students, as rigor is more important than rank, but your rank(grades) must be in that ballpark. ED legacy is a small boost. The last data I have is from HS class 2021: ED overall rate was 16% that year, Legacy ED was 19%…not that much higher than the overall ED. We know many legacies who have applied to Duke. The vast majority have been denied. The successful ones in ED have always had max rigor in their school, SAT/AP scores around the median(pre-TO figures)or higher, and class rank/GPA that was within the range that UNhooked kids had been admitted for ED in the past(based on Naviance or Scoir for the HS). The only outliers with true boosts have been recruited athletes, which is completely different. We know valedictorians and salutatorians at many different high schools who were legacies who did not get in ED, unknown why but course rigor seemed to be not top for all of them. We also know both non-legacy and legacy Val/top rigor/top everything kids who got in RD from the same schools where ED legacies were denied. Best of luck!

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Thank you for your insight. I am shocked that Legacy ED acceptance was that low, where did you get this information from if I may ask. I know that a Duke kid right now I talked to said the Legacy population at Duke was 22%. As for my rigor, I have taken a high level of rigor (I have taken post math classes that even the T20 admits did not take). My counselor said she is willing to qualify my extenuating circumstances should that mean anything. Besides that, how do you think I fare overall? All my awards are national/international.