Dean Guttentag just did a talk for alum interviewers, a webinar, and he said the CURRENT % undergrads who are legacy is 10%, for the latest admitted class. My D applied ED fall 2020 and that year and year before it had hovered 11-13% of total undergrads were legacy. The ED rate used to be 20% for overall students and 24-25% for legacies, when we met with alum development people in 2019. All alum kids can meet and talk with a representative and they used to have large sessions for alum families pre-covid. They tell you how unlikely Duke is and they strongly encourage ED for legacies, and (pre-TO) tell you not to bother if you do not have scores in the median range. They say things like challenge yourself in all core courses not just the ones you likeâthe same thing Duke tells all applicants at admission sessions and the same thing the ivies we toured say.
Anyway, there was a huge applicant surge fall 2020 for obvious reasons, mine had in-range scores, very top rigor (less than a handful had similarâthose kids ended up at top 10s except for the one who EDâd to a T20) was deferred and we got the 16% and 19% #s after the deferral . She later got in RD and is a senior there now. Have your parent email the alum admissions people and can ask them questions. They offer to be a resource for all alums. That office has zero connection to the admission office: they just answer questions and offer support.
It is hard to know how you stand. Post -calc math classes or other hard classes taken outside your high school are not that important. Taking the top rigor offered by your high school is. Without knowing how your grades/in-HS-GPA compares to the top-10-to-20 students in your class, there is no way for me to estimate your chances.
I said study. Not work in. For all we know they want to be a CPA.
I didnât say not to apply to Duke.
I said if you want to study certain subjects, they donât offer them so why apply ?
As for my class, my school does not do rank. But I am within the top 5% of my class (that is all I really know cuz of a letter we got). Including my outside AP/DE courses, I believe I have taken the most rigorous curriculum in my high school. Excluding my AP/DE courses, I still remain high in the rigor aspect. If I can ask, Duke requires us to submit all transcripts including courses taken through accredited institutions. Why do you suggest that outside course/post-AP math classes do not matter? I have taken Multivariable Calc, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations for credit. All of these are very challenging courses that emphasize my course rigor. My ACT falls in the median range for Duke right now.
Given this information, top 5% of class and falling within the median, along with my awards and ECs where do you suggest I stand? I understand legacy will not be providing any substantial benefit.
If I may also ask, what was your Dâs profile like? Specifically her stats and ECs and hooks if applicable?
Given what I have seen with Duke admissions over the years and the stats Duke shares in articles like the one below, you have about an 85% chance of needing a plan B. 90% of the applications to Duke will be similar to your high achieving high school experience. You have Duke as your number one goal, Vandy as an ED2, creating a high percentage need for option 3 to be a school with a higher acceptance rate.
Spend the time after you get the ED application in to Duke, and EA options in where available, to find options that do not make you feel like you are settling.
Curious why UVa is not on this list? Itâs another reach, but worth a shot.
I note that at least anecdotally, this has not been an uncommon experience among highly-qualified legacy applicants to these sorts of colleges in my circles (meaning lots of deferrals, then some get accepted RD, some not). I actually wonder sometimes if being a legacy in ED is a bit of a double-edged sword in that they may reason that even if they defer you, if they do accept you RD you may still be very likely to yield, more maybe than a non-legacy would.
In any event, I am noting this because I think the OP needs to be prepared for this scenario. Specifically, suppose you are deferred by Dukeâdo you then actually apply ED2 to Vandy? If you are actually admitted by Vandy, that means you canât go to Duke even if you would have been admitted RD.
Again, just from experience, I can say a lot if kids in those circumstances decided not to ED2. And again, some got into their deferral school, but most did not, and they attended a school that admitted them in RD.
Which wasnât necessarily a bad outcome at all. In fact my own S24 was in this situation, and he ended up admitted RD to the school that would have been his ED2, and that is where he ended up since his deferral school ultimately rejected him.
Still, this just emphasizes why it is very helpful to have a robust list of Likelies and Targets that you would be excited to attend. Because among many other things, it can make you more confident in not doing ED2 if your ED1/REA/SCEA college defers you.
It remains too difficult to chance you. You are certainly not worse than the average legacy, so best guess 15-20%? Have a lot of backup plans. Outside classes are fine, but they do not move the needle much. Colleges including Duke only expect you to take the most challenging courses within the school: as long as you did not avoid a hard AP in the school to instead take it outside the school you are fine. No colleges like the practice of taking an offered AP outside the high school unless there are compelling circumstances. Your rank top5% is excellent âthat is surprising with your unweighted GPA but as those on here know it is vastly different among high schools, and relative grades within high school matters more than the actual number. In any case, you are great there.
My D is a humanities kid who had erbw SAT around the 75th%ile CDS and a math SAT within the middle 50%, 3.9 uw, every top course taken, all As junior yr with max rigor, the couple of Bs early in HS were in stem(one was a B+ AP chem in 10th gr which is notoriously difficult and only a few attempt it in 10th). ECs were excellent including concertmaster, some regional awards, extensive EC with leadership every summer, girl scout gold award (akin to eagle scout) , faculty academic awards from school and excellent essays, LOR. One teacher LOR said best student in a certain area in over a decade. Her gpa/rank was the relative weakness but was within the range unhooked kids had gotten in based on naviance for the school. Her hook was legacy nothing else. ED is your best bet though certainly could try RD: they do take legacies. Our other D did not do any EDs and got in Duke RD as a legacy as well as multiple other top-10s unhooked , however she was an outlier at her school, almost all A+ with the highest rigor of anyone, valedictorian, all 5s , almost perfect scores, many top academic and EC recognitions at the state /regional level and also top LORs. Good luck! You definitely have a shot!
It is important to note that my class size is over 800, with it being common for students to take courses outside of school. My school does not consider my UW in rank, only W, and because I have taken numerous APs in school, I am within the top 40-50 students in my grade for my non-recalculated W GPA. I am definitely firm on Duke ED simply put: I love Duke.
As for outside courses, that is actually what happens with other kids in my grade. Students take courses outside to avoid the hard AP classes in school. I will be telling schools when submitting official transcripts to colleges that my reasoning for taking outside courses, especially during my senior year was to free my weekdays that would permit me to both work a part-time job and intern for the District Attorney.
This is something that I have thought about and am still conflicted on the issue. I do love Duke, but certainly want to be grounded in my ability to get into a T20. If you asked me whether I would rather take the risk of getting in Duke ED deferred or ED2 T20, I would still take the ED2 T20.
So my current viewpoint is that I would accept the fact that there is a possibility from a Duke deferral in which I commit to Vanderbilt instead.
Assuming a Duke ED deferral, what do you suppose my chances are for Vanderbilt ED2?
I know itâs a stressful time, but no one knows. All these schools have low acceptance rates and your application will resonate - or not. I get it - as my daughter was also all in on Duke (and coincidentally had Vandy as her second choice) so completely understand shooting your shot - but SHE also had lots and lots of schools WITHOUT single digit acceptance rates that she would be excited to attend. Thatâs the only thing that will make this process semi-sane. Youâre a compelling candidate and will find a great fit - donât make yourself crazy wondering about the moonshots - theyâll be what theyâll be. Find some early schools ideally with rolling admission where you know you have a place to land.
I would think youâd have a shot, but it is very competitive. As usual, if you get that far the standard advice would be to have a very robust list of RD applications as well.
Just to give you an idea, a couple years ago Vanderbilt reported an overall ED(1+2) of 17.6%, and an ED2 rate of 10.3%. Last year I donât believe they reported both, but the ED(1+2) rate was 15.2%. So I think it is a good bet the ED2 rate was significantly down into single digits.
The ED admitted student profile was also extremely competitive. Like the middle 50% ACT was 34-35, which is the same as their reported enrolled middle 50% in their 2023-24 CDS. 96% of the ED admitted students were in the top 10th of their HS class, which is actually higher than their CDS-reported 92.5%.
So really no sign of a significant ED âboostâ, at least when it comes to academics. We of course donât know about other unreported qualifications, but I really think unhooked applicants need to understand that applying ED at colleges like this is extremely unlikely to take a candidate who was not quite what they were looking for and turn them into an admit.
But again, Vandy could in fact want you, even if Duke defers you. I would just have very modest expectations for how much ED2 would actually help convince Vandy to want you. You are really need to going to do that based on your actual application.
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