Is it okay for teachers to ask about students ethnicity?

[zoosermom]

<p>There is a missing word, so I see why you are confused.</p>

<p>You had asked in the post prior to that whether the poster was justified in feeling singled out. I said that the OP was “not justified in feeling singled out based on the first post. Possibly justified in being offended. Definitely justified in feeling uncomfortable.”</p>

<p>I hope that helps.</p>

[Bay]

<p>I also have a married name that makes people laugh and sometimes total strangers make fun of it - like at the bank or wherever. I was offended at the beginning, but now I simply attribute their comments to bad manners. You don’t make fun of a person’s name, chrikey!</p>

[alh]

<h1>301 - Yes. Thank you.</h1>

<p>zoosermom:

Is a student really made to feel different if much of the class is asked about his or her name?

</p>

<h1>1

</h1>

<p>I was the kid from Nigeria (Parents are immigrants), and I felt really uncomfortable. I didn’t want to answer his stupid questions, but that would have made me stand out even more.

</p>

<h1>176

I happen to be friends with the middle eastern girl who was asked, and one of the Indians, and they were unconfortable too.

</h1>

[zoosermom]

<p>No you don’t make fun of a person’s name, but if someone who isn’t familiar pronounces it as it is spelled and it becomes a laugh-out-loud word, then you don’t threaten lawsuits or civil disobedience.</p>

[Bay]

<p>I understand what zoos is saying in 301 and I agree.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>Allh, I agreed with uncomfortable, but your post #303 shows why the OP wasn’t singled out and it wasn’t about race.</p>

[alh]

<p>You are arguing enough students were asked that the OP shouldn’t have felt singled out?</p>

<p>sweetcupcake #84</p>

<p>

My main problem is with being singled out. I don’t think its right to ask a select few about their heritage in front of the class. Again, if he had asked everyone, it would be different and might lead to an interesting discussion. But separating a few from the rest is unfair.

</p>

[zipyourlips]

<p>I haven’t read this entire thread but have to say that I am disappointed by the disparaging generalizations about subs. Subs in our urban district are required to be certified teachers and are expected to follow the teacher’s lesson plans and to complete the day’s lessons and activities. If we don’t do so, we aren’t asked back.</p>

<p>I sub in a large elementary school where I know, or at least recognize, nearly all of the students. I recently spent a day in a 4th grade class that included a new student whose first name happens to be a noun. While taking roll I asked where she had come from. I later chatted with her about her experiences so far at this new school. I wanted to make her feel welcome and to know that I am approachable and interested in her well-being. I suppose that some of you would say I was inappropriate in singling her out. I disagree. Fortunately, I haven’t heard any rumblings that I am biased against students with nouns as names. Yesterday this student came up and gave me a hug on the playground.</p>

<p>I don’t think the sub in the OP’s case was a skilled communicator but, even though I wouldn’t follow his lead, I can imagine that in an AP government class he might have thought it would be thought-provoking to highlight the diversity of backgrounds. He was clumsy and I’m sorry the OP was offended and felt singled out. </p>

<p>I am a white woman with some red blotchiness on my upper arms. Recently, an African American student passing in the hall pointed to me and said, loudly, “Why is your skin like that?” I said, “Well, that’s just the color my arm is. You know, everybody’s different and this is the way my skin is!” So you can say that I discussed skin colors with a kid of a different race without any supervision or parental permission.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>

You are arguing enough students were asked that the OP shouldn’t have felt singled out?

Yep. That’s about it. He/she wasn’t singled out. Whether the question was appropriate or not, the OP wasn’t the single person asked.</p>

[alh]

<p>[Singled</a> out Synonyms, Singled out Antonyms | Thesaurus.com](<a href=“http://thesaurus.com/browse/singled%20out]Singled”>99 Synonyms & Antonyms for SINGLED-OUT | Thesaurus.com)</p>

<p>synonoym for discriminate</p>

<p>

Sense 2 single out </p>

<p>Meaning:</p>

<p>Treat differently on the basis of sex or race</p>

<p>Classified under:</p>

<p>Verbs of political and social activities and events</p>

<p>Synonyms:</p>

<p>discriminate; single out; separate</p>

<p>Hypernyms (to “single out” is one way to…):</p>

<p>differentiate; distinguish; secern; secernate; separate; severalise; severalize; tell; tell apart (mark as different)</p>

<p>Troponyms (each of the following is one way to “single out”):</p>

<p>insulate; isolate (place or set apart)</p>

<p>hive off (remove from a group and make separate)</p>

<p>segregate (separate by race or religion; practice a policy of racial segregation)</p>

<p>redline (discriminate in selling or renting housing in certain areas of a neighborhood)

</p>

<p>I have been assuming the OP was using singled-out in this sense in post 84 and that, used in this sense,* singled-out* can include more than one individual. A singled-out group, “a select few” from within a larger group?</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

Yep. That’s about it. He/she wasn’t singled out. Whether the question was appropriate or not, the OP wasn’t the single person asked.

</p>

<p>OP was singled out…even if she wasn’t the only one. In her first post, she mentioned:</p>

<p>

He goes through the list of names, and every time he sees a name that is not “normal” sounding, he asks about their ethnicity. Naturally, white and most asain/ students don’t get asked this. However, middle eastern, Indian and African (Parents born in Africa) do get asked.

</p>

<p>Considering the above, students who didn’t have normal sounding names, especially those of Middle Eastern, Indian, and African(Parents born in Africa) were singled out for the question. </p>

<p>And OP was certainly singled out for being put on the spot about the political question in Nigeria and being backhandedly insulted by being asked about idioms as seen here:</p>

<p>

He completely ignored the instructions left by our teacher, and went on a 35 minute tangent about the origins of different idioms. After the attendance he keep asking me completely random questions about idioms, and when I didn’t know, he says “Your’e and AP Student, you should know this”.

</p>

<p>Considering the totality of OP’s descriptions of the sub’s behavior, what he did is at best unprofessional and highly inappropriate. And he completely ignored the regular teacher’s lesson plan left for him which from later posts by the OP…was the Constitution. </p>

<p>Not a topic where a more all inclusive(including the teacher) student-driven discussion of this topic would be more appropriate…like the history/politics of immigration.</p>

[Bay]

<p>^I would call that uncommon usage of the term, alh. Are you are using singled-out to mean that the teacher chose only non-whites? Because he also chose middle-easterners, who are classified as white by the fed, and he also did not choose an African American male with a “normal” name. I suppose one could say he “singled-out” all the kids with non-“normal” names, but that is an awkward usage of the word, imo, although perhaps not technically incorrect.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

Because he also chose middle-easterners, who are classified as white by the fed,

</p>

<p>Classification as “White” by the Fed doesn’t necessarily mean a given ethnic group doesn’t face discrimination, bigotry, and hate crimes in the real world. </p>

<p>Just look at how much discrimination, bigotry, and hate crimes Middle Easterners and those who were perceived to look like them faced from news reports…especially after 9/11. Or how much of the same was visited upon many Hispanics…especially Mexicans due to the revival of “Know-Nothing party*” attitudes over immigration from certain groups fanned by some politicians from a certain political party. </p>

<p>And I’m not even getting to the White supremacist groups we have here in the US…like the KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc who’d certainly take umbrage at being classified in the same racial/ethnic category as Middle Easterners, many Hispanics, etc. </p>

<ul>
<li>A mid-19th century anti-immigration group known for their seething virulent racist/ethnic bigotry and violent hatred for the hated immigrant groups of the day such as Irish and German Catholics. They instigated several violent incidents like the Louisville Riots.</li>
</ul>

[zoosermom]

<p>

I have been assuming the OP was using singled-out in this sense in post 84 and that, used in this sense, singled-out can include more than one individual. A singled-out group, “a select few” from within a larger group?

But you don’t know if it was a “select few” from a larger group, do you? THe OP never said.</p>

[alh]

<p>

But you don’t know if it was a “select few” from a larger group, do you? THe OP never said.

</p>

<p>I’m sorry zoosermom. I should have pointed out I was quoting sweetcupcake.</p>

<p>sweetcupcake #84</p>

<p>

My main problem is with being singled out. I don’t think its right to ask a select few about their heritage in front of the class. Again, if he had asked everyone, it would be different and might lead to an interesting discussion. But separating a few from the rest is unfair.

</p>

<p>I did post the quote a bit upthread.</p>

[Bay]

<p>cobrat,</p>

<p>alh specifically selected a definition for “singled-out” that means discrimination on the basis of race or sex. OP made no mention of the sex of the selected students, so I’m assuming alh is referring to the race of the students.</p>

[alh]

<p>

I would call that uncommon usage of the term, alh. Are you are using singled-out to mean that the teacher chose only non-whites? Because he also chose middle-easterners, who are classified as white by the fed, and he also did not choose an African American male with a “normal” name. I suppose one could say he “singled-out” all the kids with non-“normal” names, but that is an awkward usage of the word, imo, although perhaps not technically incorrect.

</p>

<p>In post 17 I use the term “singled-out”

That may still be a situation where some are singled out and I’m conflicted

I am using it to mean anytime any student (or subset of students) is put in a situation where there is potential the student is made to feel an outsider in the group, a situation where the group becomes non inclusive. I don’t know how Sweetcupcake is using the word. I was interested when I checked definitions as to how that phrase can be used, different meanings it might have, especially in the context of this thread. </p>

<p>I don’t think the questions of the substitute are necessarily racist. Maybe they are. Maybe they aren’t. I think they are inappropriate whether they are racist or not.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>You are right, allh. You did quote, and I stand corrected. For me, I don’t think “a few” is singled out, particularly when they are mentioned to be of various ethnicities. I see you point, but I don’t agree with that the OP was singled out. As I said, I can see why he or she was uncomfortable, but I don’t think this was anywhere near as big of a deal as it became. And I certainly don’t think anyone should put their crazy shoes on and call a lawyer or organize a protest march. (Which you did not advocate – just for clarity). </p>

<p>Or compare a queston asked by a sub with the KKK (Speaking of crazy shoes)</p>

<p>"And I’m not even getting to the White supremacist groups we have here in the US…like the KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc who’d certainly take umbrage at being classified in the same racial/ethnic category as Middle Easterners, many Hispanics, etc. "</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>

I think they are inappropriate whether they are racist or not.

I really, truly don’t think it was inappropriate as presented. And I can’t imagine that anyone would want to live or attend school in a place where conversation was so severely restricted. Have you ever said anything that someone could possibly in some circumstance have been offended by? Of course you have, everyone has, and it would be impossible not to. Part of living in society is knowing the difference.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>Bay,</p>

<p>My last post was taking issue with your using Fed racial classification as indicative of how folks of various ethnic groups are actually perceived and treated in the real world. </p>

<p>Not only is that wrong considering too many recent news events, it hasn’t been the case throughout American history. </p>

<p>Especially considering if one considers that many ethnic groups now classified as “White” by the Fed such as the Irish and Italians weren’t considered that in the real world even as late as the early '70s. </p>

<p>One remnant of that which still exists today is that CUNY does regard Italian-Americans as an underrepresented minority group for whom affirmative action policies applies as shown here:</p>

<p><a href=“Italian-Americans Want More Affirmative Action at CUNY - The New York Times”>Italian-Americans Want More Affirmative Action at CUNY - The New York Times;