<h1>319 I really, truly do think it was inappropriate as presented.</h1>
<p>My kids would not have been comfortable attending a school where such questions were asked during roll call. If such questions were asked during roll call, I would probably have complained. Probably just to the teacher. It would have depended on the circumstances.</p>
<p>I have said plenty of things that needlessly offend others. I feel that it is my responsibility to try and do better. This thread helps me sort out how to do better.</p>
<p>One other thing to consider is that those who face more incidents of racist/ethnic bigotry and discrimination in their day-to-day lives or know someone close to them who does are likely to be much more sensitive to this issue than those who don’t. </p>
<p>Moreover, if they experienced this with those in higher positions of power in relation to themselves, being very wary about it can be considered a reasonable form of self-protection. Especially considering there still are many teachers who do harbor prejudices and even hatred against racial/ethnic minorities…even in 2013 as one example here indicates:</p>
<p>allh, even thought I don’t agree with you on this thread, I greatly respect, admire and appreciate your thoughtful and respectful posts. I have enjoyed talking with you and have also learned something.</p>
<p>I can totally see why the OP was uncomfortable and I still think a polite question either in the moment or after class (or even a private mention to the regular teacher) would have been completely reasonable. I just don’t think it is reasonable to get from this to lawsuits to protest marches to the KKK. I guess as part of the doing better process, someone should have mentioned it to the actual offender, which I think is a responsibility, as well.</p>
<p>That responsibility belongs to the sub’s supervisor, not the students unless they choose to exercise what may be a risky option. </p>
<p>It’s little different from reporting procedures in many workplaces where if it’s one’s immediate supervisor who instigated the problem, one doesn’t necessarily have to go directly to that very supervisor first to work it out with him/her. In such situations, it’s ok to go above him/her. </p>
<p>In fact, this is SOP at some of my friends’ workplaces…especially in the public sector because of the awareness of possible retaliation and power dynamics of the supervisor/employee relationship in play.</p>
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<p>Please read that post more carefully. As I made clear, that post was in reply to Bay’s post which exhibits a belief that Fed racial classification correlates to actual “real world” perceptions and practices.</p>
<p>I get asked about the origin of my name (very German) frequently and have never been offended, but honestly don’t know anything about that side of my family heritage. All of my grandparents were raised in this country. I know quite a lot about my maternal relatives which I can trace back to this country in the 1500s, but my father’s father passed away when my father was very young and after that he had little contact with his paternal relatives. </p>
<p>So when I’m asked “<lastname>? German?” I respond with something such as, “That’s what I’ve been told.” or “Yes, I believe it is.”</lastname></p>
<p>OTOH - my S is 1/4 Indonesian. He has a slightly darker skin tone than most, but his ethnicity is not identifiable by looking at him. He frequently gets asked by acquaintances and even some strangers, “What are you?” and that I think is a rather offensive question. Perhaps people could consider asking “what is your ethnicity?”, “what are you?” - just sounds rude. He generally opts to respond, “I’m an American, the same as you” - which is true, as I can trace my ancestors back to American soil in the 1500s, so can he, although his skin tone may not appear that way.</p>
<p>Zoosermom: Thank you, that means a lot to me. Reading back through the thread I see that Sweetcupcake, in post 49, tells us this is the second time this happened.</p>
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<p>zoosermom:
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<p>I agree someone should mention it to the substitute. </p>
<p>Have an interesting story related to this. January of last year, one of my kiddos was a member of a club at school. It was a Multicultural type club. He thought it was a nice way to meet kids since we live in a very non diverse area. Child has always gravitated to people of all races and religions. The sponsor asked for kids to volunteer for the Martin Luther King Banquet (Citywide Event). He was flat out told they were only looking for minority students. Well he came home all upset and my spouse about hit the roof! What the adviser did not know is he is biracial (black/white) with Hispanic ethnicity and Jewish He just happens to look Scandinavian/Eastern European like his siblings. Picture a sibling of the gypsy girl found in the camp mixed with a young Brad Pitt.The child did not feel like he had to pass a look test to participate so did not let the teacher know his background. Sadly, the group has a new leader but my child quit the club this year. My reaction was sometimes people say STUPID things! Not worthy of getting someone in trouble with their job.</p>
<p>Quote:
“Asked four teachers and they laughed at the idea one has to avoid the etnicity question.”</p>
<p>“It’d be interesting to know 1)What you asked them and 2)How you asked them.”</p>
<p>I would like to know as well. And I can’t help but wonder if these teachers are the sort who are the subject of those calling for more cultural competency of teachers in my own district. I accept that some might feel asking questions the way the sub did was appropriate, but laughing at the idea that some students might be offended? Well, we wonder why students of color often feel devalued??</p>
<p>Omg, really, cobrat? Mentioning that one authoritative source classifies Middle Easterners as White means you need to bring up the spectre of the KKK? Give me a break. Your posts are becoming annoying, and yes, I know I’m starting to lose my manners here.</p>
<p>My basic point through use of examples such as US history, popular perceptions/practices as illustrated by recent news reports, and yes…White supremacist groups is in the “real world” your source isn’t nearly as authoritative nor as definitive as you say.</p>
<p>Moreover, on the US Census, surveyed individuals have the right to identify themselves as whatever racial/ethnic group(s) they please. A few I’ve surveyed even classified themselves as various Sci-Fi aliens or immigrants from fictional lands from various literary works.</p>
<p>Did someone establish that the sub was a member of a White supremacist group and I missed it? If not, your point is unnecessarily inflammatory. Not to mention the fact, I’m pretty sure every on this thread is aware of potential discrimination currently faced by Middle Easterners. Or did you think we didn’t know about it? But alh used a definition that was about <em>race</em> (not ethnic or religious) discrimination, so I was merely pointing out that the definition didn’t seem to fit in this instance.</p>
<p>And my issue with that post is your source itself isn’t authoritative and definitive as you say. Hence, the definition it’s based on isn’t, either.</p>
<p>In post 49 sweetcupcake describes being the only student in math class asked the question by a substitute. In that case, I guess there is no debate what “singled out” means? Is sweetcupcake justified in feeling singled-out in the math class?</p>
<p>You can let go of your “issue,” cobrat, because I did not say my source was the <em>only</em> authoritative source, nor that it was “definitive” on the issue. It was just an example of one authoritative source classifying Middle Easterner as White. Given the existence of that source (which is a pretty well-known one), it is conceivable that the sub also thinks of Middle Easterners as White, and thus, he was in fact not singling-out only the non-White students. If you cannot process that argument, then focus on the fact that he also did not “single-out” the African American student with the “normal” name. So if he really was picking out kids because they were non-white, “singling” them out does not appear to be the proper term, because he excluded one who by definition should have been included.</p>
<p>I’m tired of this line of discussion, and it is irrelevant anyway.</p>
<p>I had a very ethnic sounding maiden name. Subs, heck lots of folks would butcher it all the time. The funny time was when a sub butchered my first name when they called roll, and pronounced it as if it was the other gender (male). I responded with a deep, throaty “here” with the tone (voice pitch) of the gender the sub thought I was. It was funny.</p>
<p>As for the OP, understandable if she felt singled out. She was. But it doesn’t seem to have been for some hurtful or unkind reason. Sounds like it was out of curiosity. Perhaps not completely sensitive to the feelings of a teen, but not out of malice.</p>
He just happens to look Scandinavian/Eastern European like his siblings. Picture a sibling of the gypsy girl found in the camp mixed with a young Brad Pitt.The child did not feel like he had to pass a look test to participate so did not let the teacher know his background. Sadly, the group has a new leader but my child quit the club this year. My reaction was sometimes people say STUPID things! Not worthy of getting someone in trouble with their job.</p>